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German help needed!

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Mirc, Dec 18, 2008.

  1. El Bogus

    El Bogus Prince

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    Funny thread... haha
     
  2. Mirc

    Mirc Not mIRC!!!

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    I'm so glad that people are understanding :D I knew I was not the only one with this problem while talking in another language.

    Sehr gut, so habe ich es geschrieben! (auf die erste Weise (?))
    Very well, that's how I said it! (first variant, I mean, but I don't know how to say that in German :p)

    Well, lots of luck with those smashin' Syrian women then! ;)

    If destiny wants it this way, who am I to stand up against it? ;)

    That's what I do, pretty much. :p Well, I mean it's obvious that I'm not like that normally, since I pretty much use every occasion to make a joke in English if the situation allows it, but that only makes it more interesting. You know, complex, mysterious personality and stuff...

    Considering the way I know this girl, I doubt that this attitude would be a problem at all. :D
     
  3. willemvanoranje

    willemvanoranje Curitibano

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    Sure, I was kind of operating out of the assumption of a formal or at least semi-formal conversation. Then again, even in informal conversation you can use 'wie, bitte' as a style figure.. but that's probably to complicated for now. ;)

    But wouldn't just 'wie' be a good for informal conversation as well? Maybe not with your very best friend, but still..
     
  4. Mirc

    Mirc Not mIRC!!!

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    Well, I do know that, but it'll be hard to shake that instinct... I almost never manage to block those things in time to stop saying them, but sometimes, if the situation is formal, I would basically... redirect the sentence. I'd say something like "Was? Erm... was haben Sie gesagt? Entschuldigung, ich habe Sie nicht verstanden." or something along those lines ("what? erm... what did [formal you] say? I didn't understand [formal you]").

    I know about the time thing, after all I've only been living here 5 months, and my knowledge when I arrived was pretty shaky, to say the least. I'm also in a bit of a "lack of practice period" right now with German, because I had some Romanian friends over for some 6 days or so, and went to quite a lot of English-speaking parties in the past week, making my use of German very, very seldom. (wow, I almost wrote "selten" there, some changes must be happening! :D)

    I know about that, I can only hope that the gap will close up pretty soon. The problem is that even if I understand a word from its context, I'll rarely manage to remember it for more than a couple of minutes (I've even had the crazy idea of walking around with a small notebook all the time, just to write down whatever I hear and understand, or hear and don't have time to understand - but everybody who sees me will probably think I'm crazy if I actually did that).

    Hey, I've done that!! :D Quite a lot actually!! I really have to do it sometime soon with "doch", I'm hunting the negative questions from anyone I'm talking to, but even this way I rarely get to think about it before I answer, rendering my answer incorrect 90% of the times. ;)

    Anyway, I have a couple of weeks of holidays at the uni, meaning that I only have to work 2 days a week, so I will make sure I learn a lot of German in this time. I must be able to see an improvement sooner or later.


    Somehow I missed your post entirely. Sorry about that!!

    I do that too! I answer either with "was", "Entschuldigung" or various combinations f the above "Entschuldigung, was haben Sie gesagt?". "Wie bitte" is in my passive vocabulary right now. I'm definitely gonna force it in in some conversation soon, it's not like I don't need this often. ;)

    On a somewhat related note, the way the people from Spain and South America say "Entschuldigung" is a bit of an inside joke in my circle of friends. It's too complicated to explain, but listen to native Spanish speakers (at a not-so-advanced lever) say it - it will often come out as something like "Entschurdigun!". :D
     
  5. scherbchen

    scherbchen well that can´t be good

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    agreed on the phonecalling bit. when I was living in Spain I loathed talking to my landlord on the phone or to just about any Spaniard I had not already known for quite a bit though I felt pretty confident, back then, about my conversational skills.

    I suppose that there are some frequencies, wave-lengths, or sound-bites missing when listening to someone on the phone that you automatically reconstruct when you are really familiar with the language. I believe I once heard that fricatives, for example, are horribly mangled by telephones and that you merely do not realize it because your brain reassembles the sounds into what it thinks it ought to sound like.
     
  6. kalif

    kalif am start

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    Real insiders mutter "Schuldjung"!
     
  7. Mirc

    Mirc Not mIRC!!!

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    Ok guys, I need some help here! :blush: I have to write an essay for a music theory course I'm taking... it's 5 pages long, and I've already managed to convince a real German friend of mine to proof-read it when it's done, but since I had to do it really fast, I decided it would be best to write it in a mix of English-Romanian-German and then translate it into "pure" German later, but I seem to be running into a lot of trouble (more than I expected) in the process of translating certain expressions.

    The essay is due on Wednesday, which is why I have to finish the translation today, so that this German guy I mentioned will have the time to read and correct it tomorrow.

    If anyone could help, I'd be really grateful. Expect lots of questions from me in this time. :p I'll provide context when necessary, but don't worry about the technical terms - that's the only part I'm sure of! :D


    First question - when talking in the past, am I supposed to always use the imperfect instead of the composed perfect (eg "machte" instead of "hat ... gemacht")? Or how would it look best?

    Second - how would you translate the section "along the course of the history of music" into German?

    Third - (damn you, prepositions!) what preposition should I use with the word "role"? As in, "its role in the architecture of the music has suffered the most dramatic changes". I'm guessing it's either an, in or bei, but I could be entirely wrong.
     
  8. holy king

    holy king Deity

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    simple answer: alsways go with the imperfekt.
    for a complicated answer i would have to see the text itself. but you wont sound awfully awkward if you just go with imperfekt.

    im Laufe der Musikgeschichte.

    in. seine Rolle in der Architektur der Musik.

    architecture of music? never heard that expression in german, but you study it, so i guess it's ok?
    Aufbau der Musik or Musikaufbau would sound more natural to my ears.
     
  9. Mirc

    Mirc Not mIRC!!!

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    Wow, "im Laufe der Musikgeschichte" and "Aufbau" are exactly the wordings I ended up using, swear to God!! :D :D "Architecture" does work in English in a figurative sense, but sounds a bit awkward in German to me too - although I tried to germanize my expressions as much as possible, I was writing in English so I didn't have to think about every word and whether it is going to fit in the German translation or not. :) That's how I came up with that one.


    New questions: how do you say "and as such, [...]"?

    Here it is in context:

    Until now, I have:

    Anyway, if anyone here has the time for it, do let me know what you think about the first two paragraphs of my essay: :)

    I know that it's really complicated German, and that some of the words might not fit in the context, since I took some of them out of dictionaries, in order not to repeat the same ones over and over again; and I know that some of those won't fit in there no matter how good my dictionaries are.

    And here's the original (mostly) English, to please the mods: :D
    Spoiler :
    The evolution of basslines in mehrstimmige Chorsätze along the course of the history of music has undergone numerous complex, fundamental changes, which led to the existence of a large diversity in the organization of the lowest-pitched voice within different pieces from various periods of time. In fact, if such a comparison is not exaggerated, one could say that among all the various traditional voices present in choral music, it is the bass that has suffered the most dramatic changes, and whose role in the architecture of the music has been altered the most.

    In the earlier stages of development of the basslines in mehrstimmige Chorsätze, the bass was being thought of as a support for the other voices, and the various harmonies described by those, and not as an independent line with its own, sinvoll melody. This led to it having the most sprunghaft character, mit oft vorkommenden, grossen jumps, grossem Ambitus, and least aesthetic appeal of all the voices found in such a Chorsatz. The bass was thus playing the role of a mere support for the rest of the music, which is the particular quality making it unique among all the traditional voices found in mehrstimmige pieces.
     
  10. uppi

    uppi Deity

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    Generally you would translate it as "und als solche/r/s". However your sentence doesn't really make sense to me in English (what exactly do you refer with "as such"?) so I can't tell you how to translate it in this case.

    Already quite good. There are only two things that sound wrong:
    "Mannigfaltigkeit" (pretty fancy word, by the way) doesn't work with the definite singular here. Usually you need the plural, like "Mannigfaltigkeit an Organisationen". However "Organisationen" sounds a bit awkward here, but that could just be my ignorance of music theory here. Maybe you could get away with "Mannigfaltigkeit an Organisation".

    "duldete" is awkward in figurative use. It implies that the bass line has a mind of its own that was opposed to all the changes or something. "erlebte" would be better here, although the bass line isn't really alive, because the figurative use of it is way more common.

    I am not sure, whether "Umwandlungen" is good here. Maybe "Veränderungen" fits "changes" better
     
  11. Mirc

    Mirc Not mIRC!!!

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    Ah I definitely understand what you mean - but what I used there is a different (incorrect actually, in my case!) usage of "as such". :) You see, it has this meaning, that you mentioned, which can be translated through "solche/r/s", but it's also got another one...

    Again, the way I used it there is not a gramatically correct usage of those two words, although it could have been, had I worded it differently. Although quite a lot of native speakers do make use of it this way. My bad for writing it like that. "As such" often gets used as a conjunction, connecting two sentences in a phrase (though only if both words are together, in this order - since "such as" has an entirely different meaning).

    It means something along the lines of "[main sentence], and with the situation being this way, [blahblah]".

    Let me give you an example:
    "The sun is a star, and as such it emits light and heat". Or "The sun is a star - as such, it emits light and heat".

    This, in particular, is a correct usage of those two words, because it mentions the sun, so it has a precedent - there is something that the word "such" can link to. If you can replace the "such" part with a noun, like the sun in the example above, it is indeed correct. But no need to get into the fine nuances of English grammar - this is the German thread after all. :)

    What I wanted to say is: "It is to be expected that the Grundton of the chords is present in the bass line, and THEREFORE, that the music of the time is centered around the deepest male voice there is."


    :D Took it out of a dictionary, because I was tired of using the same words! :blush: As I said, I actually expected this kind of words to be wrong. I realize that they might sound snobbish and posh, but it's just my humble try at not repeating the same nouns over and over again. The use of overly-fancy words is an obvious consequence of the poorness of my vocabulary - it also happens quite a lot with not-so-well-read native speakers who try to appear intelligent, but not being a native speaker, that can't possibly be my case! ;)

    "Organisation" might indeed be wrong also - although that's how I would use it in English and Romanian, that doesn't mean it has to work in German too. :)

    So what would you use instead of this funny long word? Can you please provide me with an alternative? I'm basically just trying to say "diversity".

    Same story for those two words - taken out of a dictionary, they don't fit the context, etc etc. :) I'll change "duldete" into "erlebte" and "umwandlungen" into "Veränderungen".


    Thanks a lot! :)
     
  12. uppi

    uppi Deity

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    I suspected as much. I don't think there is a direct translation to German. This is one of the showcases why I prefer writing a text directly in the desired language instead of formulating it in another language and then translating it. In my opinion it's easier to come up with phrases in one language than it is to translate phrases between languages. And in the latter case you are always in danger of using the words of one language with the structure of another.

    But then I only write texts in two languages.


    What about: "... einer großen Vielfalt an Strukturen der tiefsten Stimme ..."

    But that might not be what a musician might say, as I am quite bad at music-speak. It's all just a mix of frequencies to me ;)
    [/QUOTE]
     
  13. Mirc

    Mirc Not mIRC!!!

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    :dance: Wow, thanks a lot guys!!! My Aufsatz was accepted (reached its purpose) and the teacher especially appreciated my "flawless German"! :p I have to say this was quite a surprise for me, although I never should've doubted that, with the help of the great German-speaking CFC community! :D :beer:

    Now I need your help again... This is not nearly as important in the grand scheme of things, but somehow I feel like I need to make a perfect impression. :p So basically, a girl from the German-speaking part of Switzerland invited me to go to her place to watch some British comedies a while ago (like 9 days ago or so), but I never got the chance to actually ask her about it, since I was working like crazy in the past week. Now I need to send her a message on the Internet about it, without sounding like Borat or a psycho, trying to keep a nice and friendly-but-innuendo-ish general tone, but I'm seriously afraid I'm gonna screw it all up. (note: this is not the same girl I mentioned previously in this thread, just in case anyone is wondering ;))

    Anyway, I've been trying to make up a message to send her, but I've only been able to come up with some really crappy ideas. Any help with the wording and phrasing, anyone? :please:

    Until now, what I've got sounds like this (yes, it is partially in English, because there are parts that I simply can't express in German without sounding like an idiot):
    (the English parts that I need to be translated into German are written in Italic and Bold! I would've just used Italic, but fortune favors the bold, you know :p)

    Spoiler :
    Hey GirlName, wie geht’s? Was machst du am Wochenende, bist du in Düsseldorf? Wann machen wir einen Filmabend mit legendären britischen Sketches and stuff? Ich dachte ich hätte noch ziemlich viel Zeit in diesem Monat, um das zweites-Semester Studentenleben in Deutschland zu genießen, aber zu viele Sachen, including dieser stupid Wettbewerb im Mai, an dem ich teilnehmen muss, sind viel zu nah (time-wise) für meinen Geschmack, also ich glaube ich muss das ganze als Hinweis verstehen (?), dass ich alles so bald wie möglich tun soll. :p Es ist wie eine divine Inspiration, aber ich muss sagen, dass ich kein Problem damit hätte, wenn ich so eine Art divine Inspiration öfter bekommen würde! :p Ich habe gehofft, das ich dich und die anderen aus unserem Theorieunterricht am Mittwoch treffen würde, aber ich war anscheiend der einzige, dem TheoryTeacherName keine Email geschickt hat... So there goes my chance of meeting you people! :p Aber I guess dafür ist der Internet erfunden worden, I figured there's no point in waiting until the NEXT theory course, I mean who knows what could happen then! I certainly don't want my university to catch fire because of me wanting to spend some time with some people I know, especially with you! So yeah, let me know! Machs gut!
    MyName.


    Spoiler if you're a native German speaker wanting to help me express what I'm trying to express, don't read this - I'm just making this translation to please the mods. I've actually thought the whole thing through in German, the problem with the English-language parts is that I just haven't been able to stop them from sounding weird in German - which is the only reason why I used English in there. The English version is actually a translation of the German variant, which is the way the whole idea came to me in the first place. Just sayin'. :

    Hey GirlName, how are you? What are you doing this weekend, are you (going to be) in Dusseldorf? When are we gonna do (have?) a movie night with epic British comedy sketches and stuff? I thought I was going to have quite a lot of time to enjoy my second-semester student life in Germany, but way too many things, including this stupid competition in May I have to take part in, are way too close for my taste, so I think I have to take all this as a sign, that I have to do everything as soon as I can! :p It's like some kind of a divine inspiration, but I have to say that I would have no problem with receiving THIS kind of divine inspiration more often! :p I hoped to see you and the other people in our theory course on Wednesday, but I was apparently the only one to whom our theory teacher didn't send any email... So there goes my chance of meeting you people! :p But I guess that's why the Internet was invented, just for this kind of situations... I figured there's no point in waiting until the NEXT theory course, I mean who knows what could happen then! I certainly don't want my university to catch fire because of me wanting to spend some time with some people I know, especially with you! So yeah, let me know! Take care!
    MyName!


    If I am successful with this girl I promise I'm gonna record myself jumping around a Currywurst screaming "I love CFC-OT" in German (and I'll be forever grateful, of course, but that goes without saying - I mean I'm already forever grateful, I'm not sure how many forevers there are!)!

    P.S.: I'm gonna be working the whole day tomorrow (teaching, in German, which is what I've been doing for 2 months now, this being the only reason why I've become pretty fluent in the polite version of this language, but I still sound like a retard when talking with friends), starting at 13:30 (German time), so if anyone gets online tomorrow (I mean today) morning, do let me know if you have any ideas about my message - otherwise don't worry, I'm going to send it tomorrow night (hope she's not going to any parties to be too drunk to read this).

    The above is an after-edit brought to you by Mirc-after-having-gone-to-the-corner-liquor-store :p Prost!
     
  14. Dragonlord

    Dragonlord Fantasy Warlord

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    All right, Mirc, here goes! Can't have you getting sexually frustrated, can we? ;) Also, I'm looking forward to seeing you jump around that Currywurst! :lol:

    I used your text and tried to keep the changes to a minimum, so some of the phrasing is still a bit awkward - it's actually easier to write something from scratch!

    Spoiler :
    Hey GirlName, wie geht’s? Was machst du am Wochenende, bist du in Düsseldorf? Wann machen wir einen Filmabend mit legendären britischen Sketches und so? Ich dachte, ich hätte noch ziemlich viel Zeit in diesem Monat, um das zweites-Semester Studentenleben in Deutschland zu genießen, aber es stehen in naher Zukunft für meinen Geschmack zu viele Sachen an (unter anderem dieser dämliche Wettbewerb im Mai, an dem ich teilnehmen muss) - also, ich glaube ich muss das Ganze als Hinweis verstehen, dass ich alles so bald wie möglich tun soll. Es ist fast wie eine göttliche Eingebung ... aber ich muss sagen, dass ich kein Problem damit hätte, wenn ich so eine Art göttlicher Eingebung öfter bekommen würde! Ich habe gehofft, das ich dich und die anderen aus unserem Theorieunterricht am Mittwoch treffen würde, aber ich war anscheinend der einzige, dem TheoryTeacherName keine Email geschickt hat... dort geht sie hin, meine Chance euch zu treffen! Aber ich denke, dafür ist das Internet erfunden worden - es macht keinen Sinn, bis zum NÄCHSTEN Theorieunterricht zu warten. Wer weiß, was dann wieder dazwischenkommt? Ich will jedenfalls nicht, daß meine Uni noch abbrennt, weil ich gewisse Leute treffen will, besonders Dich..
    Also dann, gib mir Bescheid! Mach's gut!

    MyName.
     
  15. Harvin87

    Harvin87 The Youth

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    hehe, I liked the last sentence "besonders dich", way to go don juan!. :p

    Good luck!
     
  16. Mirc

    Mirc Not mIRC!!!

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    Wait wait wait, the Currywurst part is only if I am successful! That was the original condition, you know! ;) Oh and just so I don't forget: :worship: All hail Drachenherr! Thanks!

    Don't worry about the slightly awkward phrasing, after all, she knows I'm no German, in fact I'm sure it makes it sexier, if that's even possible. :p I got to try to make this one of the last groups of 3-4 sentences for which I'm asking for help here, but as you guys might have noticed (or not :p), the fine nuances of friend-speak are my problem now, so I'm just trying to prevent myself from sounding awkward.

    @Harvin: at first I read that last sentence as "besonders dick" ('extraordinarily thick').
     
  17. Dragonlord

    Dragonlord Fantasy Warlord

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    Keep us posted... I want to see that Currywurst-video... :)

    :lol: "besonders dick" :lol: I wouldn't sabotage you like that... it would mean 'especially fat', even worse than 'thick'... calling a girl fat would, of course, disqualify you for all time..

    Good luck!
     
  18. Harvin87

    Harvin87 The Youth

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    can work somethimes... trust me ;)... it's also a tactic hehe.
     

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