Giant Earth Concept Map (256x256) 2013-04-03

[Yoda Power]

Master Yoda , why there are no resources in Siberia? I know there are few metals, at least. Intentional - not to tempt Western Europe to settle there?

Siberia only allows very limited settlement (you can't clear or settle in Taiga Forest), so for gameplay reasons the ressources are drastically limited in that region. Note however, there are some spots available near the actual few places that have real life big cities in them where you can settle and these places have ressources: Gold, Furs, etc. So what you are claiming is only half-true.

When Russia gets Cossack Settlers with Feudalism they can begin moving into Siberia and build cities on the Hills and the normal Pine Forest.

 

[Atoll]

Just downloaded & started... everything looks great, but still:
1) Please fix Siam in start menu (they are still "Zulu" with "Chief Chaka" as leader)
2) No America? OK, as you wish... but why? Without USA, any "real world simulator" looks strange.
3) Some new important things must be in civilopedia. For example, what the difference between monarchy & divine monarchy?

 

[Yoda Power]

As mentioned in the OP it is still a WIP, though I'm not sure if I'm going back to it.

1) It's pretty easily done in the editor if it annoys you.
2) Gameplay reasons. I originally planned a second version with preplaced cities that starts right after American independence, but never got that far.
3) Divine Monarchy does not suffer from tile penalty, so it's a vastly better government.

 

[Yoda Power]

Following this discussion I've added a more precise disclaimer in the first post.

I consider this to be a map, not a mod. I want people to modify it and post their own versions, that's why I posted it. It's an unfinished product as it stands now.

 

[Gojira54]

Love the modlet/map, but Mauryan Bowman cannot explore or be deleted - is this intentional?

 

[Yoda Power]

Nope, that's a bug, thanks. I never got around to trying out India (which is also the reason they're a bit unbalanced/quite strong).

 

[Gojira54]

Well, they are extremely isolated as well - no contact with anyone until well into AD. Also the Mounted Elephants can cross mountains, which surprised me. I do love the map though, and what you've done with the terrain movement - it is similar to what I had in mind for the OC and Hawaii 362 maps.

 

[Yoda Power]

They are isolated because they will otherwise get far far too strong. In my early versions they could travel through the Khyber pass and that basicly meant that Persia and even Mongolia had no chance. ME can cross mountains, because I want them to be able to cross Forest. It's the same with the Beduins, they can cross too, since I wanted them to be able to move in desert.

 

[Blue Monkey]

Also the Mounted Elephants can cross mountains, which surprised me.

1. Hannibal
2. Classical Era Indian kingdoms sometimes traded elephants to neighboring countries - Which meant taking them across the mountains.

 

[Meteor Man]

Hey Yoda Power, bumping this thread a little, because it is an awesome map.

I wanted to let you know that I can fix up the aesthetics of the mod (map?) a little, i.e., I can rearrange your tech icons and add arrows, fix the missing civilopedia pictures and text, and change the little things that make the map more of a completed mod. Can I have your permission to post the changed map on this thread?

One thing that's bugging me about the mod, though. First off, you're letting poor Japan wither on their tiny island for a whole age. I dunno, but to me it doesn't seem right to restrict settlement that much, especially for a civ on a tiny island.

EDIT: actually, I don't know if I'm gonna have time. But if I ever do fix it up, it'd still be nice to have your go-ahead to post it.

 

[Yoda Power]

You are FREE to use, modify, and post your own work of the map as you like, without asking for my approval. In fact I would like to encourage you to do that! However, I highly advice you to play it first and try and understand the basic concepts. If something seems weird, feel free to ask me why I made it like that.

By all means go ahead.

I agree that Japan has a problem. Originally my plan was to give them a Great Library-type wonder so they wouldn't fall so much behind in tech.

 

[Meteor Man]

Well, what we could do, and I've seen this done in multiple world maps, is just to connect the islands to the mainland, much like you did with England and Ireland.

May I ask, what's the main motivation behind disallowing settlers in galleys until the late Middle Ages for non-European civs?

 

[Yoda Power]

England and Ireland are connected to each other, not to the mainland. Just as the Japanese islands are connected.

The Euro civs face a very crowded area, so they get to settle through sea travel (also replaying the colonization that they undertook in real history).

The attempt for the map is to give you the feel that you are replaying real history, so expanding beyond your own territory is harder.

 

[Meteor Man]

Can era: none techs be traded? I'm playing through a game and I reached the new world and contacted the Mayans, but the option to trade the American tech isn't available. Has this been tested?

 

[Yoda Power]

You need to research a few techs before you can trade it. The arrows are missing in the tech tree. It's not an era none tech, and no, those can't be traded anyway.

 

[Meteor Man]

You need to research a few techs before you can trade it. The arrows are missing in the tech tree. It's not an era none tech, and no, those can't be traded anyway.

Ah, I was unaware of that. I made a few changes to the mod, one of which was making those agriculture techs era: none. I didn't know those couldn't be traded. Thanks for the info.


EDIT: Question, what's stopping me from just researching American Crops myself as a European civ in the Ancient Era instead of having to wait for American contact?

 

[Yoda Power]

Nothing is stopping you, but you don't need it for tech advancement so strategically it would be a wastefull choice to begin research. The American civs will always be behind in tech, so you can always count on trading it with them instead.

In my earliest version I had it in the second era, but ressources won't show up untill you reach that era (even though you still had the tech from the beginning), so I moved it back to the end of the first era.

 

[Meteor Man]

Nothing is stopping you, but you don't need it for tech advancement so strategically it would be a wastefull choice to begin research. The American civs will always be behind in tech, so you can always count on trading it with them instead.

In my earliest version I had it in the second era, but ressources won't show up untill you reach that era (even though you still had the tech from the beginning), so I moved it back to the end of the first era.

Okay. That's what I was figuring. I was thinking that we can move the techs to the 2nd era, (I'll use the Euro tech as an example) but only have it show the resources that are available around the start locations of the American civs. I.e., the resources such as horses that are visible through both eras are still not available to the American civs because it lies outside their settlement area.

^This is a bit unwieldy, because resources like pigs for example are available in both the settlement areas of the Euros and the Americans. So restricting when that resource pops up screws with the Europeans' development. But allowing to always be visible makes it always visible for the Americans.


The idea that because it's not a requirement for advancement and is thus wasteful to research is a good one at center, but practically doesn't work for two reasons. 1) the human player is still likely to research it because a boost in food like that is hard to come by and 2) The AI fervently researches ALL techs in the era, required or not.

I think we need to come up with something else, because I really like this idea.

 

[Yoda Power]

I think what I went with is the best sollution. Yes the human player can still research it, but really it's an unwise choice when the turns could be used better (remember it's a pretty expensive tech). The AI does research it, eventually. But that hardly ever happened in my tests. Almost every time they would not go for it before they had made contacts with the Americans anyway. Remember this also works the other way round with the American civs also getting the Eurasian tech.

Moving the two techs to the second era is probably the worst idea in my opinion, since it sort of ruins the point if you don't have access to any ressources before you get there. As it is now you get a wide range of ressources from the beginning, then you make contact and you get even more ressources. Moving it to the second era the effect would either be 1) gone or 2) diminished in case you removes some of the ressources from the techs.

My point pretty much boils down to: I went through the same process you are going through now and ended up concluding this was the best sollution. The biggest problem is that you can research it, but really, if you have the leverage to research a tech that is freely available for trading maybe you should consider moving a level or two up in difficulty.

I hope I don't come off as arrogant, not my intent at all.

 

[Meteor Man]

Not at all. It is true you went through the same process I am now. My problem is that I integrated your mod with my own, and my mod has a much longer time span between the end of the ancient era and when ships are available that can traverse the Atlantic. I have to come up with a separate solution, unfortunately.