Gilad Shalit is free

[Formaldehyde]

Yeah, we get it Form, whatever the Israelis do, it's wrong

Yet many continue to support and defend them no matter what the Israeli government does.

If the released people weren't political prisoners, then the Israeli government has committed an atrocity far greater than any of those acts by releasing guilty terrorists merely for the life of a single Israeli soldier.

If they were actually political prisoners instead of those who were guilty of heinous acts themselves, it makes far more sense for Israel to have done so. But it also means the government committed even worse atrocities by torturing and imprisoning thousands of innocent people to punish an entire group for the acts of a handful of criminals.

The truth is likely somewhere in the middle. I think it was patently stupid for the Israeli government to have done anything in this regard. Both sides have political prisoners and commit grievous human rights violations. And that will likely continue to occur no matter who the victims might happen to be at any given time.

It also means that more Israeli soldiers will likely be kidnapped in the future.

 

[JollyRoger]

Just imagine that, being kidnapped at the age of 19 and losing one of the best parts of your life being held as a hostage of terrorists.

Thoughts?

First thought on reading the quoted part of your post:

In one of the first military commissions held under the Obama administration, a US military judge has ruled that confessions obtained by threatening the subject with rape are admissible in court.

The case involves Omar Ahmed Khadr, a citizen of Canada who was apprehended in Afghanistan when he was 15 years old and has remained in Guantanamo Bay for the last seven years awaiting trial for terrorism and war crimes.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/08/11/15yearold-gitmo-detainee-threatened/

 

[wolfigor]

I am not sure what you mean by this.


Israel has won many wars.

Israel has the death penalty and so do many other states.

Gilad shalit was not killed, so does that mean that Hamas are not terrorists.

Israeli forces have killed prisoners who have been completely incapacitated, does that mean that Israeli forces are terrorists.

I meant that Israel has little bargaining chip when negotiating exchange of prisoners:
Arabs prisoners of Israel face prison
Israeli prisoners of Arabs face death penalty

as far as I know there is no death penalty in Israel

 

[useless]

I really have to take issue, with how some people here are portraying Palestinians, as these stereotypical, Blach & White evil, almost animal-like villains, whilst the Israeli's are the good guys, and if only the Palestinians stopped attacking, Israel would stop.

This does nothing but polarise the debate, and make it in even more difficult to engage in it.

Both sides have done horrible things, but the comments here are borderline offensive.

 

[REDY]

It is encouraging other kidnaps. If they werent political prisoners but terrorists, it will probably lead to deaths of civilians.

 

[nivi]

If that is actually true, Israel has committed another atrocity by releasing them.

Seriously?
Israel has committed an atrocity by releasing them.

 

[Cheezy the Wiz]

What I don't understand is, why would the Israeli government agree to trade 1000 prisoners for 1 soldier? There must be more to this than is being stated.

 

[useless]

Seriously?
Israel has committed an atrocity by releasing them.

Is Israel anyless capable of committing atrocities, than any other country?

 

[bhsup]

What I don't understand is, why would the Israeli government agree to trade 1000 prisoners for 1 soldier? There must be more to this than is being stated.

I am desperately looking for an article I read last night that went into that. It's almost like there is a covenant between the government and the people who serve in its defense force that they just will not leave anybody behind (according to the article). Bear with me while I keep searching for it...

EDIT: Found it: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-15342782

There are a number of factors behind it.

First perhaps - is the nature of Israel's army - the IDF (Israeli Defence Forces).

However Israel's critics may try to characterise it, the IDF is seen by many Israelis as a fundamental expression of their country, as well as its guardian.

National service, always badly-paid and often tedious or hazardous, is compulsory and is one of the great bonding experiences of Jewish society in Israel.

For the Jewish community - about three-quarters of Israel's population - the army is seen simply as the nation in uniform. As a result, it still produces a kind of emotional reaction which has been largely forgotten in countries like the UK or the US, which have salaried professional armies.

As President Shimon Peres said, without the Israeli Defence Forces there would be no Israel.

Sacred life

That creates a political pressure when a soldier is captured, which exists hardly anywhere else.

Gilad Shalit's family have turned themselves into a formidable lobbying organisation within Israel - a highly-visible presence in the national life.

Compare Sgt Shalit's fate in that respect with that of Bowe Bergdahl - the young American soldier captured by militants in Afghanistan about two-and-a-half years ago.

The American military may be making efforts to recover him, but his fate is most certainly not a daily issue in American political life.

Beyond that, there is the philosophical basis of Israel as a Jewish state.

The traditions of Judaism place a powerful emphasis on the sacredness of life and the duty to redeem or rescue captives. The Talmud (the key text of Jewish law and ethics) says that one who saves a life should be considered as though he had saved an entire world.

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu alluded to that teaching as he explained to the Israeli nation why he had decided to sanction the deal to recover Gilad Shalit.

It continues on to list some more pragmatic reasons as well, but I found those first two points interesting.

 

[nivi]

What I don't understand is, why would the Israeli government agree to trade 1000 prisoners for 1 soldier? There must be more to this than is being stated.

It is not unprecedented.

 

[timtofly]

What I don't understand is, why would the Israeli government agree to trade 1000 prisoners for 1 soldier? There must be more to this than is being stated.

The compensation for his military service is probably equal to the "housing" of that many prisoners? It is good for a balanced budget?

 

[Cheezy the Wiz]

It is not unprecedented.

Yes I know I remember past ones. It just seems strange. I mean, this kind of lop-sided prisoner exchange almost seems to encourage more such kidnappings.

I am desperately looking for an article I read last night that went into that. It's almost like there is a covenant between the government and the people who serve in its defense force that they just will not leave anybody behind (according to the article). Bear with me while I keep searching for it...

EDIT: Found it: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-15342782

It continues on to list some more pragmatic reasons as well, but I found those first two points interesting.

Ah, I see. That explains it then.

The compensation for his military service is probably equal to the "housing" of that many prisoners? It is good for a balanced budget?

I assume that's supposed to be humorous.

 

[Formaldehyde]

Seriously?
Israel has committed an atrocity by releasing them.

If Israel has actually released dangerous terrorists who will now kill even more innocent civilians, then I think they obviously have committed a reprehensible atrocity by releasing them.

 

[useless]

Yes I know I remember past ones. It just seems strange. I mean, this kind of lop-sided prisoner exchange almost seems to encourage more such kidnappings.

Which gives the Israeli Government further opportunities to villify all Palestinians.

 

[nivi]

If they actually released dangerous terrorists who will kill even more innocent civilians, then they obviously have.

You are blaming Israel for something that was shoved down their throats by Hamas. Wow.

Yes I know I remember past ones. It just seems strange. I mean, this kind of lop-sided prisoner exchange almost seems to encourage more such kidnappings.

It does, and when they happen, we will release even more prisoners, no man left behind is not just a motto.

 

[Formaldehyde]

You are blaming Israel for something that was shoved down their throats by Hamas. Wow.

Nobody "shoved" this completely absurd decision down the Israeli government's throat. The man was a soldier who may very well have participated in a number of atrocities himself.

It does, and when they happen, we will release even more prisoners, no man left behind is not just a motto.

It is a good thing the Palestinians don't have that motto given how many political prisoners the Israeli government has tortured and imprisoned without even a trial, much less a fair one.

 

[Winner]

That is a foul sentiment to hold, that israeli's are worth more than the palestinians

It's not Israel who insisted on exchanging one Israeli hostage for 1000+ Palestinians - an interesting point concerning the value either side puts on its people, don't you think? It's also not Israel who's giving convicted terrorists hero's welcome in the streets.

Both sides have done horrible things, but the comments here are borderline offensive.

Offensive to whom? I'll tell you what I find offensive - the supposed equivalence between Israel and the terrorists that some posters keep implying. It's like saying the police is just as bad as the criminals , because it sometimes makes mistakes.

Everything about this thread is appalling. I've never felt more disgust with this community.

Nobody forces you to a) open it; b) read it; c) post comments in it.

 

[nivi]

Nobody "shoved" this completely absurd decision down the Israeli government's throat. The man was a soldier who may very well have participated in a number of atrocities himself.

You are still blaming Israel for following what is basically Hamas's demands.

 

[Oruc]

Nobody "shoved" this completely absurd decision down the Israeli government's throat. The man was a soldier who may very well have participated in a number of atrocities himself.

You'll never be satisfied till every Israeli is dead.

Moderator Action: Uncalled for and probably wrong.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[useless]

You'll never be satisfied till every Israeli is dead.

What? That's a tad extreme.