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Give me 18, but not on Earth - new PBEM

Discussion in 'Civ4 - PBEM Games' started by Nighthawk419, Jan 23, 2012.

  1. sinimusta

    sinimusta el capitano

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    This is a tracker for Give_me_18,_but_not_on_Earth

    It's year AD-1645
    Who has the save?
    In-Game Name: Ruffster John
    Forum Name: Ruff Hi
    3 weeks, 0 days (and no one now cares about hours and minutes!) passed since the save has been handed on.
     
  2. Rodrigo Costa

    Rodrigo Costa King

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    Ruff with the turn for 3 weeks!? Not usual... Ruff is playing his other games... I think he might be scared with the mighty power of Mali... :p
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2019
  3. ruff_hi

    ruff_hi Live 4ever! Or die trying

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    Life is giving me crap from almost every angle at the moment. Other games are easy. This - not so much. I will try and move it on in the next few days.

    Sorry.
     
  4. sinimusta

    sinimusta el capitano

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    Np. Just good to hear from you. Hope things get better.
     
  5. ruff_hi

    ruff_hi Live 4ever! Or die trying

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    Sorry about the delay. Just sent the turn on.
     
  6. sinimusta

    sinimusta el capitano

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    Phylhom it's almost 3 weeks now.
     
  7. Phylhom

    Phylhom King

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    Hi Sinimusta! 3 weeks? Wow the time is very quick! Sorry for the delay, guys! I will play my turn this next weekend, ok?:goodjob:
     
  8. Phylhom

    Phylhom King

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    I'm back. The game is moving again!
     
  9. Tigranes

    Tigranes Armenian

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    GPSed
     
  10. sinimusta

    sinimusta el capitano

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    The cold war between Aztec and Ethiopian Empire is getting hotter. Last turn Ruff decided to invade former Nighthawk continent with an armoured force. We'll see how much destruction or foothold they can achieve.

    GPS
     
  11. sinimusta

    sinimusta el capitano

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    Seems like it's a very had turn.
     
  12. ruff_hi

    ruff_hi Live 4ever! Or die trying

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    had = bad? No. Just life is **** at the moment. I will get to it.
     
  13. Rodrigo Costa

    Rodrigo Costa King

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    It's year AD-1655
    Who has the save?
    In-Game Name: Ruffster John
    Forum Name: Ruff Hi
    3 weeks, 5 days (and no one now cares about hours and minutes!) passed since the save has been handed on.
     
  14. ruff_hi

    ruff_hi Live 4ever! Or die trying

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    turn forwarded. sorry about the slow play.
     
  15. Imp. Knoedel

    Imp. Knoedel Properly Paranoid Proletarian

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    So. It seems I have found myself in the quite interesting position of kingmaker. It is obvious that I am not going to catch up with the big civs and snatch a surprise victory. However, my strategic position between Tigranes and ruff means I might be able to shift the balance between the top dogs just enough to ensure eventual victory for one of them.

    There has been lots of behind the scenes plotting going on, but I think the time has come to drop the veil and openly announce our intentions and allegiances.

    Will I join the anti-ruff alliance or will I remain loyal to my master? Either way there will be lots of fighting as the armies of Tigranes and ruff clash in my territory, doubtlessly causing lots of destruction and costing me several cities, even if the player I sided with proves victorious and eventually repels the invader. Let's consider the possible outcomes:

    If I betray my master and let Tigranes' armies sweep through my lands to fight him at my eastern border, I have no guarantee of actually being able to expand eastward myself. I have no guarantee that Tigranes will not immediately turn on me the second ruff has been defeated, forcing me to fight two wars in succession, so that even if I win both of them, I will emerge technologically backwards and far behind the likes of Luthor or Phylhom, unable to ever catch up and win.
    Ruff is the most powerful and advanced civ, and now finally the rest of the world has come to realize that they must all band together in order to defeat him. All of us together might actually stand a chance against him, but what would the post-war world look like then, especially for me? Would I be able to conquer enough of ruff's territory to catch up and get on equal footing with Tigranes, Luthor and Phylhom? Would I be able to play them against each other so one of them doesn't try to capture my lands for himself? Or would they come to an agreement with each other to split my civ up between them as was the fate of real life Poland? The only option remaining to me would be to become a vassal of one of the top dogs, but then what was the point of betraying ruff in the first place if I was only going to replace one master for another?

    If I remain loyal to ruff however, it will be us against the world. I will either die or ruff will win the game, there's no alternative to these two outcomes. Now the question is, how likely is it that ruff is able to singlehandedly defeat the rest of the world combined? He is powerful and a very skilled player, but is it enough?

    If I break free, I either die, become vassal of another civ, or win eventually.

    If I stay, I die or ruff wins with me as his vassal.

    Breaking free only to later become vassal of another player is just as unappealing as dying, because I'd rather just stay with the master I already have if I must have one at all. Therefore it comes down to whether I would be able to rise from the coming world war as a major power if I joined the allies or not. If the probability of that happening is lower than the probability of being defeated alongside ruff if I remain loyal, then I will remain as ruff's vassal.

    You know, it's a real pity Permanent Alliances isn't enabled as a game setting. If it was, I'd join whoever promised to accept me as an ally and partner rather than submitting myself to the authority of someone else.

    Oh well, I'll hold my turn for a bit to give everyone time to try to convince me to join their respective side before making my final decision.

    Remember, the allies must convince me that it is likelier that I emerge a powerful civ on equal footing to them once ruff has been defeated than it is that ruff with me by his side will be defeated. ruff obviously needs to convince me of the opposite.

    With that in mind, fight! With your words! For my allegiance! So that we can then actually fight, be it together or against each other!
     
  16. ruff_hi

    ruff_hi Live 4ever! Or die trying

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    Let me stop you right here. This might have been true when the Anti-Ruff group started ... but it isn't true now ... and the quicker everyone realizes this, the quicker we can all address the run-away civ ...

    Power Chart ...


    Tech Chart ...


    Land Mass ...


    Demographics ...


    Look at the land size ... I am #2. Who is #1? Look at the map ... see all of that Aztec green down in the southern hemisphere. The Aztec's have been running wild on those islands.

    Look at the food! I am not #1. Who is #1?

    Look at the Finance ... yes - I am #1 here but it includes my free culture (+2 per city) which inflates my score.

    The Aztecs are running a highly advanced espionage economy and while there were trailing by up to 9 techs 20 turns ago, I am pretty sure they are actually more technologically advanced than me now (look at the tech screens).

    Finally - look at the power chart. Who is that light green line that has been above the dark green line (me) for the last 50 turns?
     
    Imp. Knoedel likes this.
  17. Imp. Knoedel

    Imp. Knoedel Properly Paranoid Proletarian

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    Uff, I am colorblind, so all those fancy colored graphs do exactly nothing for me.

    But yeah, that's a good point actually now that I realize how powerful Luthor has become: Tigranes, why would you join the dogpile on ruff now, when it appears he and Luthor are about the same strength? Wouldn't this be a prudent time for you to lay back and relax and focus on economic development while the big boys beat each others' heads in? If you fight ruff now you will only help Luthor become top dog, while from a strategic perspective I think you (and other minor and medium civs) would benefit more if there's two about equally strong top civs who are too focused on fighting each other to conquer anyone else, giving weaker civs a chance to catch up.

    Edit: Also ironically enough ruff is the only civ whose demographic data I can't see ingame, because I don't have enough espionage invested against him, so I just assumed he was still #1 in every aspect.
     
  18. sinimusta

    sinimusta el capitano

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    Why are you still talking about Luthor ;)? He hasn't been in this game for years.

    Anyway if Knoedel decided to reclaim independence he would have nothing to fear from Aztec side even if Ruff were severely weakened or so. We would also note that Ruff has started the aggressions against both me and Phylhom, against latter by an outrageous act of burning the world historical capital with immense cultural value. So we would say that there were good reasons to form up a defensive alliance against Ruffian aggression.

    To Knoedel:
    We could negotiate a timed NAP if it's in your interests and you wanted such a quarantee. Also we naturally would help anyway we reasonably can to maintain independence against potential Ruff aggression. A major part of Ruffs tank forces are anyway tied to battle far away from home against me so they wont be threatening your independence if you decided to reclaim it.

    I trust Tigranes could give same kind of quarantees and also land support to Knoedel.

    PS. Please avoid delaying the gameplay too long, the turns are already taking forever to go through.
     
  19. Imp. Knoedel

    Imp. Knoedel Properly Paranoid Proletarian

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    Hua what? Isn't he the Aztec player?
     
  20. Tigranes

    Tigranes Armenian

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    Sinimusta replaced Luthor.

    Yes, I offer 30 turn NAP to Knoedel.


    I second this request.

    We are missing Phylhom's insight. I would really love to hear from him here.
     

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