GK2- The Training Day Experiment

[shoguntaka]

1) Worker moves north.

2) Scout moves SW unto that hill.

3) If no food-bonus resource is visible, go ahead and settle that on the same spot the settler started on. We'll still have plently of forest (2 forests on other side of the river). Then the worker will start mining that BG north of our captial.

4) I have no idea which tech we should start researching
We'll start with Pottery and Ceremonial Burial,
And I'm guessing either the Myticism or Wheel. I noticed that the AI tend to neglect the Wheel (that's in the Conquest, can't confirm that in Vanilla CivIII). If we research the Mysticism first, we can have monopoly on it.

 

[mad-bax]

You can pop the hut with the scout immediately. Would that be a good idea?

 

[shoguntaka]

Could be barbarians, and that'll wreck us really bad.
They'll kill our scout, and then our worker, and then pillage our captial

 

[mad-bax]

Nope: Can't be barbarians.
Expansionist civs don't get barbs from a hut.

What is it possible to get from the hut if you pop it immediately, before founding your first city?

 

[shoguntaka]

I didn't know that -- that's another great thing about expansionist trait -- (what about in Conquest 1.15, is expansionist still immume to barb-popup?)

Yeah, you can possibly get a settler from that hut (POSSIBLY).
And you get 3 tiles view ahead, since it's a mountain.

 

[mad-bax]

Nope: Can't get a settler. If you have an unused settler or a settler being built in any city you will not get a settler from a hut.

What else can't you get from the hut before settling your first city?

 

[Sir Bugsy]

If you presently have a settler you can't get a settler from a hut.

What would be a good strategy for dealing with the hut?

Infoman has a good idea using the scout's two moves to get to the mountain. Remember when you move when exploring to move olbiquely.

What are our strongest tiles here, and what will give us the strongest tile set in our capitol?

 

[yoshi74]

Have played the game till 590AD (No, i don't spoil! What? 10 gold per turn? Well.... no, i don't think so ).

Big for mad-bax! Well choosen map, with many opportunities and interesting challenges. Enough opportunities to learn most (if not all) importent things

 

[Gengis Khan]

I get out of work & already the discussion has begun!

Thanks for the map, madbax. And excellent questions so far.

It seems everyone is in agreement with moving the worker to the BG, & unless he spots some really great tiles to the north- settling where he stands.

The scout is in question though, I see three choices: Moving over to the GH mtn(or the hill if you didn't want to pop the hut), moving N then W to that mtn, or moving SW onto the hill. What are the advantages to each?

I'm also assuming everyone noticed that the mountain & hill are bordering water? Do you think it is a lake or the coast? What implication will that have on our early strategy?

I have a couple more questions, but I'll save those so we don't overload you guys.

 

[SolarKnight]

Whenever i've popped a hut this early, its either a tech, money or a map with an expansionist tribe.


The water near the GH mountain looks like the coast, but it could still be a lake, if its coast then we should look into establishing a coastal city fairly soon in order to get contacts by sea, unless this turns out to be a pangea, where the ai will most likely start further inland.

 

[Turner]

I'd move the scout to pop the hut. This would also give you a good view of the water. While you won't get to see how big the ocean/lake is, if it is a small lake you'll see it off the bat.

I like the spot where the settler is. Good growth, good shield. Not the most ideal spot, but not bad. Not fond of it being a plain, but it could be worse.

And I'd move the worker to the bg and road/mine it.

 

[TedJackson]

The order in which you make your moves is important.

Everyone seems convinced that moving North to the BG is the best choice for the worker, so that should be the first move.

You can decide what to do with the Scout and the Settler once more tiles are revealed.

Popping the hut before founding a city will prevent any chance of popping a Settler (or a tech IIRC)


Ted

 

[mad-bax]

Well, you can get anything from the hut other than a settler or barbs. You would not get barbs in this instance whether you were expansionist or not, since you cannot get barbs if you have no units with a non-zero defence value. Some people say that the chance of getting a city depends on how many cities you have compared with other civs. If this is true, then you will be very unlikely to get a city.


I'd like to make one more suggestion if I may and then I'll butt out.

I think it would be a good idea for one of the trainers to move the start units according to what is decided and post a screenshot before the first town is founded. This way you can discuss what to do with the settler before the first trainee plays his turns.

Just a suggestion....

I like TDG's and will continue to follow this thread with interest. Good luck guys.

EDIT: Ted - I thought you couldn't get a tech before founding the first city too. But I have regenerated this scenario several times and tested it, and on three occaisions out of at least eight I got a tech from the hut. So I learned something. The only thing I didn't get was a city.

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

You can get a tech, of course: however it would be always the cheapest available tech, usually CB or Pottery. Because of this, it's not only important to found a city, but to pick a Tech to research before popping!

 

[TedJackson]

Originally posted by mad-bax
EDIT: Ted - I thought you couldn't get a tech before founding the first city too. But I have regenerated this scenario several times and tested it, and on three occaisions out of at least eight I got a tech from the hut. So I learned something. The only thing I didn't get was a city.

I learn something new every day

Doc's comment about the cheapest tech applies at any time so you need think about which branch of the tech tree you want to block (commonly the bottom).


Ted

 

[Turner]

You wouldn't get a city for it, because it's on a mountain, and you can't build cities on mountain, so that's out.

Good point about moving the worker first. You'll open up part of the map there, and it might be a more prudent spot to move the
scout to.


I'm half tempted to move the settler one tile northeast. That's maybe a couple more grassland opened up. But that spot is acceptable, too.

 

[shoguntaka]

Here's the plan for me:

1) move worker N, since it's the best visible tile for now, and it'll reveal some of the fog north as well. We can possibly find a food-bonus tile, and perhaps move the settler elsewhere.

2) Since we have CB, and we don't want to get pottery from the hut, hit F6 and set research on the pottery.

3) Turner_27 said that we can't get a settler from that hut on mountain, so it doesn't hurt to send a scout to that hut before finding our capital.

4) We'll either get a 2HP warrior, 25 golds, a piece of revealed map, or a tech (we'll get a tech other than CB or Pottery)

 

[Gengis Khan]

Well since you will be going first a couple points/questions.

1. Do you plan on mining or roading the BG first? Why?
1b. What is your first build in the city? Why? Does this influence your desision to road or mine first?

2. Iroquis start with CB & Pottery. What do you plan on researching first, will you change your research after you pop the hut(if so to what?) Why did you make this decision?

3. You can get a settler from a hut on a mtn, you can't get a free city from one though. Why do you chose to pop the hut first, since you can't start researching till you have a city?

4. What order are you going to do these things? This is more important than you initially may think.

 

[shoguntaka]

1) Mine first, because I think a shield makes a huge difference than a 1 commerce, then road after of course.

1b)The first build order would be another scout. We want to maximize our expansionist trait by building more scouts.

2) Oops, you're right. We have both CB and Pottery *bonks myself*
The next cheapest techs would be bronze working and warrior code. I would chose to research wheel, and hope that we will get Warrior Code from popping a hut. And when we get both the wheel and the warrior code, we can research the horseback riding, so that we can get our UU.

3) I thought Mad-Bax said that we can get a tech from a hut even though we don't have a city yet. Maybe I misunderstood him. What's the difference between a settler and a free city? Wouldn't a settler give you a free city? *boggles*

4) Order: #1 (move worker north), #2 (go to the science advisor and pick warrior code), #3 (if we can't find a better site for our capital, settle on it), #4 send the scout to that hut and hope that we'll get a tech or a new settler

 

[Gengis Khan]

1. Personally I'd go with the road, but your reasoning is valid.

1b. agreed

2. If you want WC from the hut, you should select BW then pop the hut. It will give you the cheapest tech your not researching(WC), then you could switch to the Wheel if you wanted that.

2b. Why are you hoping for WC and prioritizing the Wheel in your early game?

3. You can, however you can't start researching until you have your city. A settler is just that, a city however is a free city right where the hut was(this is very rare).

4. Only thing wrong with your order, you can't start researching till you found your city.