GK2- The Training Day Experiment
- Thread starter Gengis Khan
- Start date
From what I understand about wonder-building, one direct solution to this problem is to go ahead and use the palace prebuild we've got for something like the Sistine Chapel. Then we can build infrastructure until Economics gets closer; at the appropriate moment, we can then begin building another palace or a different wonder, working on construction until Econ becomes available.
Doing this with another wonder requires that there's one we're willing to spend resources building but maybe not actually get. There doesn't appear to be a wonder directly in the path to economics; music theory and Bach's cathedral could be considered, but...
(Edit: No leaders
Missed that one before making the post.)
I'm sure there are other good ways, I just don't know what they are. Guess that's why I'm in a TDG
Doing this with another wonder requires that there's one we're willing to spend resources building but maybe not actually get. There doesn't appear to be a wonder directly in the path to economics; music theory and Bach's cathedral could be considered, but...
(Edit: No leaders
Missed that one before making the post.)I'm sure there are other good ways, I just don't know what they are. Guess that's why I'm in a TDG
coletite
Warlord
We can't use a leader per bugsy...
An option for wonder building is to pick a prebuild that will take 30-40 turns to build and start it now. I'll have to actually check the game to see if the palace takes that long... but I think the current palace prebuild is done soon. So maybe grab Sistine with that.
As far as Smith's goes... we should be able to start another palace prebuild as soon as we get Sistine. But again, I'd have to check the game to see for sure.
The point of all this... if you have a reasonable idea when a particular tech will come in, you can start a prebuild to be within a few turns of completing then switching over to the wonder.
BTW- how do you figure the tech cost?
An option for wonder building is to pick a prebuild that will take 30-40 turns to build and start it now. I'll have to actually check the game to see if the palace takes that long... but I think the current palace prebuild is done soon. So maybe grab Sistine with that.
As far as Smith's goes... we should be able to start another palace prebuild as soon as we get Sistine. But again, I'd have to check the game to see for sure.
The point of all this... if you have a reasonable idea when a particular tech will come in, you can start a prebuild to be within a few turns of completing then switching over to the wonder.
BTW- how do you figure the tech cost?
scoutsout
Minstrel Boy
Re-read Bede's post. Bede is trying to give you an insight into something powerful here.coletite said:
@Bede: Do you remember "wasting three shields on the Statue of Zeus"?
@Team: That wisecrack pertains to a really awesome pre-build Bede set up in an earlier SG...
Keyword: Timing
coletite
Warlord
I'm drawing a blank.
[EDIT] It would be nice to have a prebuild that has as many or more shields required to build as Smith's, start the prebuild at a time when we will have accumulated almost all the shields that Smith's requires right when Economics comes in. But I'm not sure that's what we're talking about...
[EDIT] It would be nice to have a prebuild that has as many or more shields required to build as Smith's, start the prebuild at a time when we will have accumulated almost all the shields that Smith's requires right when Economics comes in. But I'm not sure that's what we're talking about...
coletite said:
The problem we've got right now is that we don't have a wonder like that. The farther you are from 600 shields in your prebuild, the later that prebuild has to start - otherwise you'll just have the prebuilt item first.
But we could consider a path under which we add a couple of turns picking up another wonder tech - Music Theory, say - and do a palace prebuild to its wonder. I think if we timed everything right, we could start a palace, hand that off to Bach's Cathedral before the palace finishes, and then switch to the Trading Co. before Bach's finishes.
For some reason I remember this being viable in Civ2, but I might just be confused.
How much does the palace cost to build for us right now? The data PDF I have says it varies (by era?).
scoutsout
Minstrel Boy
This is the stuff that gets me psyched. You've got the most important part - the right question! Now seek ye the answer (and maybe a tech cost calculator along the way) and you'll understand what Brother Bede meant when he said:GJ said:
You can't even start the building for 35-40 turns, so how do complete it on that timeline?
If I counted right, we're well over the (5/3)(OCN) limit for the map, so palaces are a cool 1,000 shields. That looks about right, judging from the number of columns in the currently-building palace's box.
So an elaborate palace-to-JSBach-to-Smith's plan shouldn't be necessary.
I guess the next step is to figure out some tech costs and try to get a more definite answer than the ballpark 30-40 figure we were given earlier.
Figuring out when we're likely to get the tech will, I assume, help us decide where we're going to actually
do the prebuild.
--
Edit: I did some extra mathematical grunt work with this formula and came up with some figures. Someone should probably check my work.
If you figure we need education, banking, and economics to get to Smith's Trading Co. (Theology's almost done):
Education has a base cost of 44, banking 52, economics 56.
Our map modifier is 240, for a standard map.
Our AI cost factor is 9.
Assuming that no other civs have learned the tech, and there are four civs remaining after we beat the Persians, we find that the (1 - (N/(7*CL/4))) factor is 1 (since N = 0) and the other constants reduce to 80/3.
Then education has a gold cost of 1173.33, banking 1386.67, and economics 1493.33.
Add them up and you get 4053.33 total gold.
If we put...
200 gold into science a turn after getting Theology, it'll take 21 turns to go this route.
225 gold, 18 turns.
250 gold, 17 turns.
275 gold, 15 turns.
300 gold, 14 turns.
I'm tempted to wait and see how our economy looks in a post-GA Republic before rushing to conclusions.
Edit 2: However did I end up with a number much lower than 35-40 turns?
So an elaborate palace-to-JSBach-to-Smith's plan shouldn't be necessary.
I guess the next step is to figure out some tech costs and try to get a more definite answer than the ballpark 30-40 figure we were given earlier.
Figuring out when we're likely to get the tech will, I assume, help us decide where we're going to actually
do the prebuild.
--
Edit: I did some extra mathematical grunt work with this formula and came up with some figures. Someone should probably check my work.
If you figure we need education, banking, and economics to get to Smith's Trading Co. (Theology's almost done):
Education has a base cost of 44, banking 52, economics 56.
Our map modifier is 240, for a standard map.
Our AI cost factor is 9.
Assuming that no other civs have learned the tech, and there are four civs remaining after we beat the Persians, we find that the (1 - (N/(7*CL/4))) factor is 1 (since N = 0) and the other constants reduce to 80/3.
Then education has a gold cost of 1173.33, banking 1386.67, and economics 1493.33.
Add them up and you get 4053.33 total gold.
If we put...
200 gold into science a turn after getting Theology, it'll take 21 turns to go this route.
225 gold, 18 turns.
250 gold, 17 turns.
275 gold, 15 turns.
300 gold, 14 turns.
I'm tempted to wait and see how our economy looks in a post-GA Republic before rushing to conclusions.
Edit 2: However did I end up with a number much lower than 35-40 turns?
coletite
Warlord
Ah... but being able to predict how our economy will look is important to mastering the game. I assume.
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- Jan 24, 2003
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GJ said:
The cost of a palace increases with the number of cities you have until you reach the OCN (OCN=Optimal City Number). This number varies depending on the size of the map. Once you have reached OCN the Palace costs 1000 shields to build.
In this game you are way past OCN
Edit: You need Masonry before the option to build a palace becomes available.
coletite
Warlord
I'll wait to play until I have a better idea what to do about the wonder.
*delurk*
In Civ2, you lost half the shields by switching from an improvement to a wonder. Unless you were playing on Chieftain. It was far better to build lots of caravans or freight, which could disband for 50 shields each if they were building a wonder.
*relurk*
GJ said:
In Civ2, you lost half the shields by switching from an improvement to a wonder. Unless you were playing on Chieftain. It was far better to build lots of caravans or freight, which could disband for 50 shields each if they were building a wonder.
*relurk*
Mistfit
Deity
Have we looked into what city the prebuild would be best built in? I have no access to Civ right now but what is the quickest we can build Smith's?
GJ said:
The GA ending will cost you ~50% of your income. Republic will get it back but there will be the anarchy to contend with, short, true, but still a factor. Also the GA has been masking the corruption is some towns so the percentage of income lost to corruption will go up, even in Republic. And then there is the kicker that the luxury spending percentage will increase to compensate for the additional corruption just when you want to devote more to research.
I concur with g-man and the rest of the lurkers, finishing off the Persians is paramount.
