GK2- The Training Day Experiment
- Thread starter Gengis Khan
- Start date
denyd
Emperor
I also posted this in the Strategy Section and got a couple of corrections:
Diety corruption is 60 & trade is 170 for C3C (thx cmxa)
Also the OCN values for C3C are 14, 17, 20, 28, and 36 (thx TimBentley)
Diety corruption is 60 & trade is 170 for C3C (thx cmxa)
Also the OCN values for C3C are 14, 17, 20, 28, and 36 (thx TimBentley)
Communism in CivIII 1.29 has only two benefits with limited application....
Aplication:
you are locked in endless war
Benefits:
no unit support and no war weariness and veteran spies.
I can only think of one game where Communism might have been a good choice. It was one of Ankka's Cultural Domination games and war weariness and troop costs were killing us. And veteran spies would have been useful for technology theft. Revolting back to Monarchy dealt with the war weariness and preserved the ability to cash rush settlers for poaching land. Not that we had any cash to work with.
I had thought that the use of mass specialists would have helped either the economy or the research rate in this game but that hypothesis just did not apply. The productive core was well set up with multiplier buildings (libraries and universities/markets and banks) so it took more scientists or tax collectors to recover the beakers or cash flow than the populations could support. If the Russian conquests had larger populations then the outcome might have been very different.
Here's a table of the important numbers:
The 43% drop in total income can not be recovered, likewise the 58% reduction in beaker production. There are simply not enough people to fill the gaps.
Aplication:
you are locked in endless war
Benefits:
no unit support and no war weariness and veteran spies.
I can only think of one game where Communism might have been a good choice. It was one of Ankka's Cultural Domination games and war weariness and troop costs were killing us. And veteran spies would have been useful for technology theft. Revolting back to Monarchy dealt with the war weariness and preserved the ability to cash rush settlers for poaching land. Not that we had any cash to work with.
I had thought that the use of mass specialists would have helped either the economy or the research rate in this game but that hypothesis just did not apply. The productive core was well set up with multiplier buildings (libraries and universities/markets and banks) so it took more scientists or tax collectors to recover the beakers or cash flow than the populations could support. If the Russian conquests had larger populations then the outcome might have been very different.
Here's a table of the important numbers:
The 43% drop in total income can not be recovered, likewise the 58% reduction in beaker production. There are simply not enough people to fill the gaps.
Mistfit
Deity
I how much would have our tech rate dropped if we sold our Lib's and Uni's in Communism and save the gpt for upkeep of those buildings. In a more enlightened form of Gov't we were getting the benefit of our big cities making good use of the Lib's and Uni's but in Comm I think they are just dragging us down.
Does this post make sense?
Mistfit raises an interesting question. If our government of choice is communism, then how would we manage our builds to support a communistic strategy? Obviously in this game it was decided early on to build Libs and Unis and other structures designed to make the best use of representative governments. So, in a way, our early strategy made switching to communism worthless.
The answer to the above is counter intuitive. Because the commerce rate drops so steeply the multiplier buildings actually have a greater impact under Communism at maximum science. So selling them would not reduce maintenance enough to have a positive effect on research rate.
With a library and university every two uncorrupted gold produces 4 beakers. Universities and libraries together cost 3gpt maintenance. So the more net gold (after corruption) the bigger the proportional impact of the mulitplier buildings.
The Representative Government advantage derives from the extra gold per working citizen which is just even further powered up by the multipliers.
It definitely makes sense to sell libraries/univesities/banks/markets in those towns that don't have two gold pieces to rub together, however.
With a library and university every two uncorrupted gold produces 4 beakers. Universities and libraries together cost 3gpt maintenance. So the more net gold (after corruption) the bigger the proportional impact of the mulitplier buildings.
The Representative Government advantage derives from the extra gold per working citizen which is just even further powered up by the multipliers.
It definitely makes sense to sell libraries/univesities/banks/markets in those towns that don't have two gold pieces to rub together, however.
Sir Bugsy
Civ.D.
However, we won't be staying in communism. Don't sell them.
Remember, communism's strength is veteran spies. Couple that with the intel agency, and that is how you keep in tech => theft.
Remember, communism's strength is veteran spies. Couple that with the intel agency, and that is how you keep in tech => theft.
Mistfit
Deity
We've now have an interesting challenge... Can we beat Alerum 
who's taking the next turn?
who's taking the next turn?
alerum68
Priest of Hiroshima
Oh I'm sure you guys could beat my score easily Mistfit.
I wasn't going for score, just space.
I wasn't going for score, just space.Sir Bugsy said:
Did a little test during COTM11 and discovered that in towns with less than six net gold you can sell the libraries and not harm your research effort. Total beaker count may go down, but those are marginal beakers anyway, and you recover the maintenance cost..
Sir Bugsy
Civ.D.
So who's going to play?
Bede said:
I would do, but I'm best man at a friend's wedding this weekend and it's keeping me quite busy. Then there's a big festival next week (Thai New Year-Songkran) so I won't have any time for at least ten days.
I'm sure there must be a lurker ready to whip up some new techs to get us further along the path.
DJMGator13
Still breathing
KayEss said:
Who is ready to be next in control of the science minded IRQ people? It's an open roster, just post a got it so we know your playing.
so someone jump in. I can pick it up on Monday when I get back, but I'd rather have someone play some turns by then.
Mistfit
Deity
Why dont one of you trainers take it for 10 turns and just post a nice write up for it. That will at least keep some movement on the game. Has a request been posted in the registry for someone to stop in and play a set or two?
Bede? Sir Bugs? Deny? Gator? (prolly not with the SGOTM turns currently in his court)
denyd
Emperor
If no one else has grabbed this by Friday, I'll play a set over the weekend (since I don't have GOTM 42 to play and my HOF game should be done by then)
denyd
Emperor
OK, I got it.
I'll spend some time during lunch to figure out what my goals should be for the turns and post them later today.
I'll spend some time during lunch to figure out what my goals should be for the turns and post them later today.
denyd
Emperor
I'll be revolting in the pre-turn from Communism and since we are religious, we should be in Democracy very soon. I'll move a bunch of workers to the new lands and complete any needed improvements on the home island.
This should be a builder turnset with lots of infrastructure and research. I'll review the other AI and might be helping them along so that they might research something for us. The AI is normally not very helpful at this point in the game (they always seem to go for Amphib War, Recycling & Stealth).
At this point in the game it has become more of a how many turns can be shaved off the original estimate for victory and the closer to the end the harder it gets.
This should be a builder turnset with lots of infrastructure and research. I'll review the other AI and might be helping them along so that they might research something for us. The AI is normally not very helpful at this point in the game (they always seem to go for Amphib War, Recycling & Stealth).
At this point in the game it has become more of a how many turns can be shaved off the original estimate for victory and the closer to the end the harder it gets.
