God exists

[warpus]

What if the multiverse and string theories are false?

I don't think there is a multiverse theory out there, and string theory wouldn't really affect anything.

 

[El_Machinae]

The majority of cosmological theories involve a multiverse, I think.

 

[warpus]

I thought multiverse related things were hypotheses, not theories. But I just looked it up and M-Theory seems to exist.

Even if all multiverse theories were false though, that doesn't mean that a multiverse is not possible, though. So I don't think it'd change much.

 

[bhavv]

Multiverse 'hypothesis' at this point are still science fiction / pseudo science. They are interesting to read and think about, but there is zero observable testable data which by definition is not (yet) scientific.

String theory tries to describe the smallest possible points that can make up the tiniest particles. Surely if God were to exist it must be formed of some kind of particles.

 

[warpus]

String theory tries to describe the smallest possible points that can make up the tiniest particles. Surely if God were to exist it must be formed of some kind of particles.

You'd think so, but God is often described as a magical being which transcends space and time.

So.. anything goes, if that's the definition you go with.

 

[gay_Aleks]

Well, I don't want to come out as a polytheist, but I think it's pretty assholish of us humans to think there's one universal God which created it all. It's far more likely there's one demi-God who created Earth, and did not want to mess with the whole "structure of the Universe" business. He left it to the superiors.

 

[El_Machinae]

I thought multiverse related things were hypotheses, not theories. But I just looked it up and M-Theory seems to exist.

Yeah, the vernacular isn't easy.
The whole thing quickly becomes a muddle. Regardless, everyone knows there's no current way to test the various multiversal ideas. They're not really theories, in that they're not even well-defined, nevermind the lack of evidence.

 

[Naokaukodem]

From the OP: "... we need God in order to live correctly. The question of the existence of God still remain, but hey, if we need God, why wouldn't He exist ?"

So, to the OP, God exists because we need God to exist, which is a poor argument, IMO.

In fairness, he does go on to ask "Is something needed necessarily exist ?", but there are ample examples demonstrating that the answer to that question is "no" (e.g., Cindy needs a new kidney to live, but there are no tissue matches, etc.)

Well this looks like a sophism like that :

"Cindy needs a new kidney to live
There are no tissue matches kidneys
Therefore kidneys don't exist"

The thing is those examples are purely circumtancial. It's not because something needed is not here at a given time in a given space for a given person, that the existence of the needed objects is invalid, or that the needing of those objects doesn't implies their existence.

It's like if you wanted to find the weak points in my formulation, congratulations you succeeded, but it's just that, not like if you wanted to understand what i was actually saying to share an enlightment.

I would say everything needed is a story of dependence. No matter if you just created something you "would" need, everything you need exists already, that's how you felt into dependence of it.

 

[bhavv]

Well how could god be made of nothing? How could nothing possibly manifest the amount of power that we attribute to god?

 

[Naokaukodem]

Well how could god be made of nothing?

Same question applies to everything. So is this question really important ? Just understand that you can't understand. After all it's not about understanding how, it's about understanding why.

How could nothing possibly manifest the amount of power that we attribute to god?

Have you ever got a child ? The ways of God are probably a lot more down to earth that one may think. And there are miracles.

 

[Mechanicalsalvation]

Well, I don't want to come out as a polytheist, but I think it's pretty assholish of us humans to think there's one universal God which created it all. It's far more likely there's one demi-God who created Earth, and did not want to mess with the whole "structure of the Universe" business. He left it to the superiors.

Nature itself is probably such a demigod. There seem to be one Source but many task are delegeted to its own spheres and are presided by something in charge. Polytheism doesnt contradict monoteism it complements it.

 

[bhavv]

Everything is made of something. Therefore god cannot be made of nothing.

Your second paragraph made no sense.

 

[Naokaukodem]

Everything is made of something. Therefore god cannot be made of nothing.

You trump yourself. If everything is made of something, including God, why would he be made of nothing ?

Your second paragraph made no sense.

God created this universe. He employed particles, light, waves, atoms, etc... probably he didn't have another way to do it. So isn't the marvel of birth, for example, a mark of God ? The manifestation of the amount of his power we attibute him ?

 

[Mechanicalsalvation]

Everything is made of something. Therefore god cannot be made of nothing.

Everything is made of God. There is and logicaly can be nothing else. God is the original existence, uncreated encompassing all. And God can create only through concealing itself - its orinal form. Hence Matter is hiding within itself unfathomable powers. But psycho-mentaly our egos tend to see only the separation and limitation which is only superficial reality.

 

[bhavv]

I didn't state that god was made of nothing, I was asking how it is possible that he is as that was assumed from earlier in the thread.

 

[Narz]

I will try to proove here that we NEED to believe in God.

Indeed, people need to do something of their lives, just because they live and that the outcome can be very distant. Would that only be to kill time. So they are trying to do things. Will they be pleased to do these things on the end ? Will they succeed ?

The thing, is that they can't manipulate themselves : to manipulate itself, one have to know itself. However this is technically totally impossible. Why ?

* First off, if you try to know yourself, you will accumulate data about yourself, right ? That data will become a part of yourself. However, in order to know yourself, you should know that data also. Creating some other data. That would should know. Etc... so the quest of self knowledge, is purely infinite therefore never reached.

* When you learn things about yourself, it is unsure about what we will do next. Let's say you have a revelation about yourself. How will you react ? Nothing tells you you will react in the same way you would have react if you wouldn't have had this revelation. So the processus of knowing yourself may change drastically the way you behave. And, I'm talking by experience, you probably will act the opposed way in reaction, as to contradict determinism.

So not only you can't really, technically know yourself round, but you may change your mind in the processus, which is endless, much for your mind.

So, you need top have a *SUPERIOR* entity that guide you. By "superior", I mean an entity that is above you, see you all, and wish the best for you, never defecting.

That's why I'm saying that we need God in order to live correctly.

The question of the existence of God still remain, but hey, if we need God, why wouldn't He exist ? Is something needed necessarily exist ?

If He doesn't, what kind of poor aberations would we be ?

The first part is all true. But I don't "need" a superior entity. It would certainly be nice to have one (especially if this God wasn't an insecure, self-centered ***hole like most of the monotheistic world's ones) but if I need one I'm SOOL because there isn't a big papa with an infinite warm embrace. I even agree though that it might be adaptive to believe there is... to a point.

See the thing is, the fact that I don't know myself fully along with my loneliness & isolation pushes me to interact with my fellow human beings. It's been said "hell is other people" & that is certainly true but so is heaven.

What we need is not some cosmic teddy bear to cling to when we're sad or a cosmic gps to follow blindly when we're lost. We need to be able to get along with, learn from & create a better world with our fellow man.

You think "God" is going to solve climate change? War? Poverty? Any form of human misery or self-destruction? Of course not. Only contentious man can do that (or die trying).

We will never fully know or understand ourselves or the universe. Instead of being insecure about that & inventing stories to make us feel more secure let us band together & do the best we can with what we have for the good of all.

 

[timtofly]

Everything is made of something. Therefore god cannot be made of nothing.

Your second paragraph made no sense.

Every thing consist within God. Besides God there is nothing else. God does not have any physical attributes outside of the physical universe. It is circular to say that God exist in the human mind thus we exist in the mind of God. God existing as a human concept should be removed as an option. We experience God, and can even create concepts of God in our mind. We cannot create the existence of God in our mind, because God exist outside of the physical.

I would go so far as to say we do not exist as a concept of God's mind. We are the physical manefestation of the concept. Some human concepts can become physical manefestations, but there is the whole universe that contains physical objects which were not created by humans. God creating the universe is not a concept we came up with, we know that it happened because God told us in a physical manner.

 

[bhavv]

So god is the universe?

 

[timtofly]

So god is the universe?

The universe is the physical reality of a concept God is having. God is God. In technical physical terms, God is not the universe. He is keeping it in existence though.

 

[bhavv]

So the universe is within god?