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Going for Gold: Follower Beliefs

Discussion in 'General Balance' started by Stalker0, May 17, 2018.

?

Is this item in a reasonable state of balance?

Poll closed May 31, 2018.
  1. Yes

    66.7%
  2. No

    33.3%
  1. TwoPodRay

    TwoPodRay Warlord

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    And check on the other beliefs that depend on faith purchasing, To the Glory of God especially comes to mind, but also Zealotry.
     
  2. BiteInTheMark

    BiteInTheMark Emperor

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    Yeah, Glory of God is a very strong combination, also prophecy with holy land and the typical spam missionaries strategies. But everything is possible even without Byzanz. And don't forget, it's a normal belief, even converted can use it.
     
  3. LukaSlovenia29

    LukaSlovenia29 Emperor

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    I think thrift is too strong, 1g per 1pop up to 15 followers is just an insane amount of gold. Compared to other per pop follower beliefs I believe it's the strongest.
     
  4. BiteInTheMark

    BiteInTheMark Emperor

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    Agree... A need for 30 follower for the maximum of yield is too much, most people didnt go for city size above 30 anymore, especially on large continents or pangäa map, reaching this treshold is impossible. Meanwhile you can unlock the full potential of Thrift even in renaissance and gives you insane amount of gold compared to the gold you get in that time.
     
  5. CrazyG

    CrazyG Deity

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    I think thrift used to cap at 10. And it was good at ten. Was there a reason it got buffed to 15?
     
  6. John.B.C

    John.B.C Warlord

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    I think I'd have to agree with the above posts (from a position of picking thrift every time these last games). But when going tradition as often as I do, it has really helped me a lot.

    EDIT: I rest my case, I did argue from a point where it has been my preference of choice the last 3-4 games. But that doesn't mean it's OP - I'm not so sure really, because I can't say that I have been snowballing due to it; not at all. If so, my converted neighbour babylonia would have outplayed me in the last game, which didn't happen.
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2018
  7. YukiN

    YukiN Prince

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    Has anyone seen the AI take either Inspiration or Veneration as their first belief in 11-9?

    The whole point of yield beliefs is that they are faster than buildings, but I don't see Inspiration and Veneration going until beliefs start running out. The 1/3 nerf has been too much. I propose changing those beliefs back to 1/2 and capping them at 5. If each faith or culture is worth two food or gold, then the cap should reflect that too.
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2018
  8. BiteInTheMark

    BiteInTheMark Emperor

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    I have an arabia in my game which picked veneration, but dont know if they picked it first or second. Even as second pick, it was a good choice, cause they went TtGoG as reformation belief. But in the end it doesnt play any matter, india pressure will win :)
     
  9. Minh Le

    Minh Le King

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    India Pressure is notthing compares to Byzantium legion of Super Missionaries :lol:
     
  10. chicorbeef

    chicorbeef Emperor

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    The thing with that is that it makes the belief very snowball-y, since these are two yields that are snowball prone to begin with (in particular Faith).
    One thing I considered is combining Inspiration/Veneration at 1 Culture/Faith per 3-4 Citizens. Both of these beliefs are considered problems, so combining them would kill two birds in one stone, while preventing either yield from being in too much excess. We could then brainstorm something for one belief to take the place of Veneration.
     
  11. Omen of Peace

    Omen of Peace Warlord

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    +2 per 5 citizen would be fine I think - intermediate between +1 per 2 and +1 per 3. About the only downside I think of is that it doesn't look very elegant.

    I don't like the idea of combining +Culture and +Faith.
     
  12. YukiN

    YukiN Prince

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    1 per 2.5 is perhaps a good number. 2 per 5, take literally, is really bad since you don't get anything from 5 to 9 believers, which a lot of cities will be stuck with for a long time.

    I also don't see the need to combine faith and culture. I think we just need a number fix.
     
    Galbias, ElliotS and CppMaster like this.
  13. TheBigFundamental

    TheBigFundamental Chieftain

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    I think the Follower belief that gives 25% culture in the city from faith purchases is way too powerful. It basically converts 25% of faith to culture in addition to the extra yields it grants in the city per turn and in addition to the benefits of what you purchased with the faith. In my current game, I have Alexander, who picked this belief, two policies ahead of Poland at the end of the Renaissance era, not to mention being at least 6 policies ahead of the majority of the field.
     
    Enrico Swagolo likes this.
  14. Enrico Swagolo

    Enrico Swagolo Deity

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    I think it should go back to 10% or maybe 12-15%, but have one more yield.
     
    TheBigFundamental likes this.
  15. phantomaxl1207

    phantomaxl1207 King

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    And then, when you start buying GP with it, it seems to convert a little to well into Culture.
     
  16. Minh Le

    Minh Le King

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    I dont think it was that powerful. In the late game when I start to buy GP, my culture output usually at 1000+/turn, while my faith is only ~300+ without fealty or 500 -> 600 with fealty and staying to the rest of my game while my culture output continues to rise as the game progress. 25% of that transition into culture is not that big, I'd say something like 10% science from Synagouges has much bigger impact.
     
    BiteInTheMark, CrazyG and Owlbebach like this.
  17. Owlbebach

    Owlbebach Emperor

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    Alexander has another way to be ahead of everyone in culture and it is much more powerful one. I doubt it is the follower belief, rather he is just fighting a lot
     
    CrazyG likes this.
  18. Stalker0

    Stalker0 Baller Magnus

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    Or the 20% culture mosque
     
    CrazyG likes this.
  19. TheBigFundamental

    TheBigFundamental Chieftain

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    Alexander was my neighbor and the only fighting he did was against me. Since I played defensively, I lost maybe three units to him, so Acropolis couldn't have been the source of all that culture.
     
  20. BiteInTheMark

    BiteInTheMark Emperor

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    It's good in the early stage after founding or enhancing, but decrease much in later eras. While Iam able to generate over 2k culture in modern era with a 5 city Morocco, my faith output is around 220. Transformed, that's an amount of 55 culture, an increase of 2.5% in total. Compare it to mosque with 20% increase.
    If you split that culture to 5 cities, it's 11 culture +4 more yields. More valuable yields and more of them than other follower beliefs, but it needs longer to reach this values. I think it's good especially for 4-5 city empires, Byzantium and in combination with ancestor worship, but not overpowered in general. The yields per city will decrease with the amount of cities you will have. Looks fine for me.
     

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