Going for Gold: Follower Beliefs

[TwoPodRay]

A few of us were debating a -10% faith cost idea in another thread. If there aren't any big abuses (would need to check through with Theodora) I think its a good idea.

And check on the other beliefs that depend on faith purchasing, To the Glory of God especially comes to mind, but also Zealotry.

 

[BiteInTheMark]

And check on the other beliefs that depend on faith purchasing, To the Glory of God especially comes to mind, but also Zealotry.

Yeah, Glory of God is a very strong combination, also prophecy with holy land and the typical spam missionaries strategies. But everything is possible even without Byzanz. And don't forget, it's a normal belief, even converted can use it.

 

[LukaSlovenia29]

I think thrift is too strong, 1g per 1pop up to 15 followers is just an insane amount of gold. Compared to other per pop follower beliefs I believe it's the strongest.

 

[BiteInTheMark]

I think thrift is too strong, 1g per 1pop up to 15 followers is just an insane amount of gold. Compared to other per pop follower beliefs I believe it's the strongest.

Agree... A need for 30 follower for the maximum of yield is too much, most people didnt go for city size above 30 anymore, especially on large continents or pangäa map, reaching this treshold is impossible. Meanwhile you can unlock the full potential of Thrift even in renaissance and gives you insane amount of gold compared to the gold you get in that time.

 

[CrazyG]

I think thrift used to cap at 10. And it was good at ten. Was there a reason it got buffed to 15?

 

[John.B.C]

I think I'd have to agree with the above posts (from a position of picking thrift every time these last games). But when going tradition as often as I do, it has really helped me a lot.

EDIT: I rest my case, I did argue from a point where it has been my preference of choice the last 3-4 games. But that doesn't mean it's OP - I'm not so sure really, because I can't say that I have been snowballing due to it; not at all. If so, my converted neighbour babylonia would have outplayed me in the last game, which didn't happen.

 

[YukiN]

Has anyone seen the AI take either Inspiration or Veneration as their first belief in 11-9?

The whole point of yield beliefs is that they are faster than buildings, but I don't see Inspiration and Veneration going until beliefs start running out. The 1/3 nerf has been too much. I propose changing those beliefs back to 1/2 and capping them at 5. If each faith or culture is worth two food or gold, then the cap should reflect that too.

 

[BiteInTheMark]

Has anyone seen the AI take either Inspiration or Veneration as their first belief in 11-9?

The whole point of yield beliefs is that they are faster than buildings, but I don't see Inspiration and Veneration going until beliefs start running out. The 1/3 nerf has been too much. I propose changing those beliefs back to 1/2 and capping them at 5. If each faith or culture is worth two food or gold, then the cap should reflect that too.

I have an arabia in my game which picked veneration, but dont know if they picked it first or second. Even as second pick, it was a good choice, cause they went TtGoG as reformation belief. But in the end it doesnt play any matter, india pressure will win

 

[Minh Le]

India Pressure is notthing compares to Byzantium legion of Super Missionaries

 

[chicorbeef]

Has anyone seen the AI take either Inspiration or Veneration as their first belief in 11-9?

The whole point of yield beliefs is that they are faster than buildings, but I don't see Inspiration and Veneration going until beliefs start running out. The 1/3 nerf has been too much. I propose changing those beliefs back to 1/2 and capping them at 5. If each faith or culture is worth two food or gold, then the cap should reflect that too.

The thing with that is that it makes the belief very snowball-y, since these are two yields that are snowball prone to begin with (in particular Faith).
One thing I considered is combining Inspiration/Veneration at 1 Culture/Faith per 3-4 Citizens. Both of these beliefs are considered problems, so combining them would kill two birds in one stone, while preventing either yield from being in too much excess. We could then brainstorm something for one belief to take the place of Veneration.

 

[Omen of Peace]

+2 per 5 citizen would be fine I think - intermediate between +1 per 2 and +1 per 3. About the only downside I think of is that it doesn't look very elegant.

I don't like the idea of combining +Culture and +Faith.

 

[YukiN]

+2 per 5 citizen would be fine I think - intermediate between +1 per 2 and +1 per 3. About the only downside I think of is that it doesn't look very elegant.

I don't like the idea of combining +Culture and +Faith.

1 per 2.5 is perhaps a good number. 2 per 5, take literally, is really bad since you don't get anything from 5 to 9 believers, which a lot of cities will be stuck with for a long time.

I also don't see the need to combine faith and culture. I think we just need a number fix.

 

[TheBigFundamental]

I think the Follower belief that gives 25% culture in the city from faith purchases is way too powerful. It basically converts 25% of faith to culture in addition to the extra yields it grants in the city per turn and in addition to the benefits of what you purchased with the faith. In my current game, I have Alexander, who picked this belief, two policies ahead of Poland at the end of the Renaissance era, not to mention being at least 6 policies ahead of the majority of the field.

 

[Enrico Swagolo]

I think the Follower belief that gives 25% culture in the city from faith purchases is way too powerful. It basically converts 25% of faith to culture in addition to the extra yields it grants in the city per turn and in addition to the benefits of what you purchased with the faith. In my current game, I have Alexander, who picked this belief, two policies ahead of Poland at the end of the Renaissance era, not to mention being at least 6 policies ahead of the majority of the field.

I think it should go back to 10% or maybe 12-15%, but have one more yield.

 

[phantomaxl1207]

I think the Follower belief that gives 25% culture in the city from faith purchases is way too powerful. It basically converts 25% of faith to culture in addition to the extra yields it grants in the city per turn and in addition to the benefits of what you purchased with the faith. In my current game, I have Alexander, who picked this belief, two policies ahead of Poland at the end of the Renaissance era, not to mention being at least 6 policies ahead of the majority of the field.

And then, when you start buying GP with it, it seems to convert a little to well into Culture.

 

[Minh Le]

I dont think it was that powerful. In the late game when I start to buy GP, my culture output usually at 1000+/turn, while my faith is only ~300+ without fealty or 500 -> 600 with fealty and staying to the rest of my game while my culture output continues to rise as the game progress. 25% of that transition into culture is not that big, I'd say something like 10% science from Synagouges has much bigger impact.

 

[Owlbebach]

I think the Follower belief that gives 25% culture in the city from faith purchases is way too powerful. It basically converts 25% of faith to culture in addition to the extra yields it grants in the city per turn and in addition to the benefits of what you purchased with the faith. In my current game, I have Alexander, who picked this belief, two policies ahead of Poland at the end of the Renaissance era, not to mention being at least 6 policies ahead of the majority of the field.

Alexander has another way to be ahead of everyone in culture and it is much more powerful one. I doubt it is the follower belief, rather he is just fighting a lot

 

[Stalker0]

I dont think it was that powerful. In the late game when I start to buy GP, my culture output usually at 1000+/turn, while my faith is only ~300+ without fealty or 500 -> 600 with fealty and staying to the rest of my game while my culture output continues to rise as the game progress. 25% of that transition into culture is not that big, I'd say something like 10% science from Synagouges has much bigger impact.

Or the 20% culture mosque

 

[TheBigFundamental]

Alexander was my neighbor and the only fighting he did was against me. Since I played defensively, I lost maybe three units to him, so Acropolis couldn't have been the source of all that culture.

 

[BiteInTheMark]

I think it should go back to 10% or maybe 12-15%, but have one more yield.

It's good in the early stage after founding or enhancing, but decrease much in later eras. While Iam able to generate over 2k culture in modern era with a 5 city Morocco, my faith output is around 220. Transformed, that's an amount of 55 culture, an increase of 2.5% in total. Compare it to mosque with 20% increase.
If you split that culture to 5 cities, it's 11 culture +4 more yields. More valuable yields and more of them than other follower beliefs, but it needs longer to reach this values. I think it's good especially for 4-5 city empires, Byzantium and in combination with ancestor worship, but not overpowered in general. The yields per city will decrease with the amount of cities you will have. Looks fine for me.