phantomaxl1207
King
It is important to remember common sense when looking at balance. Like with the Sacred Sites.
Sacred Sites is currently at odds with itself.
If you want to use SS, you want to go wide, to get a lot of those buildings. However, going wide gives you a crippling modifier to your tourism output, so the bonus you get from each additional city is almost zero.
I think it could use an additional bonus which reduces the tourism penalty from having many cities (if I had to throw out a number, I would say to 50%).
I'd like to point out at this idea again cause apparently it was not notieced despite having quite a lot of support. I think making it ~2-3 times cheaper in terms of faith and without +5 is really a good move, both balance-wise and gameplay-wise (it will be more interesting and more strategic!)I kinda think that Jesuit Education and Faith for Masses might loose additional science and culture on buildings, but become cheaper in terms of faith. It will be more interesting gameplay-wise, currently you usually don't buy them for faith cause they are too expensive, you just build them but get huge boost. It will be more intetesting when you can get them faster but they are still the same strenght
I disagree. The main point of the beliefs is the yields. This changes their purpose completely. I do thing FfTM is weak, and would like to see a slight buff. Maybe increase culture a bit or reduce prices.I'd like to point out at this idea again cause apparently it was not notieced despite having quite a lot of support. I think making it ~2-3 times cheaper in terms of faith and without +5 is really a good move, both balance-wise and gameplay-wise (it will be more interesting and more strategic!)
Science-per-turn is boring, you just normally build your universities/Schools the same way you do this in every other game, you just get more from them. My proposal forces player to think more and to act more, this will be much more interesting gamedesign-wise. What i want is to make those belief influence players playstyle, cause right now thye almost don't.I disagree. The main point of the beliefs is the yields. This changes their purpose completely. I do thing FfTM is weak, and would like to see a slight buff. Maybe increase culture a bit or reduce prices.
I have a random idea (please tell me if it's totally OP or not)-make it so that you don't need the necessary techs to get to Public Schools/Research Labs, lower the prices a little but still keep them expensive (like old Archaeologist prices). How does that sound?I'd like to point out at this idea again cause apparently it was not notieced despite having quite a lot of support. I think making it ~2-3 times cheaper in terms of faith and without +5 is really a good move, both balance-wise and gameplay-wise (it will be more interesting and more strategic!)
Exactly there is always a place for tweaking numbers, though i'd prefer reducing price to 30% ofr current without extra yields. Or maybe leave 2 extra culture on Fait for MassesSomething like +3 science per, and 50% of the current faith cost (tweak numbers as needed)
I'd say this is redundant... Maybe not as much OP but unnecessaryI have a random idea (please tell me if it's totally OP or not)-make it so that you don't need the necessary techs to get to Public Schools/Research Labs, lower the prices a little but still keep them expensive (like old Archaeologist prices). How does that sound?
Edit: We could restrict Public Schools/Research Labs to Industrial to prevent it from being OP as well.
Can I ask why exactly threads with active discussion are getting the "LOCKED" in the title? This thread has some good disagreements, and it seems like the only people agreeing are advocating a change...............
I kind of agree with Owlbebach on this one. The idea of building universities with faith is much more interesting than raw yields. There is room for both, but currently faith purchases for universities or other buildings are exceedingly rare. Something like +3 science per, and 50% of the current faith cost (tweak numbers as needed).
I second this. I do not see any downsides of this, 20% is really hard to get on Standard map and actually requires some significant luck. But if we set it to 15% - i'm pretty sure we will not be seeing every religion Reformed every game, usually there is one religion that is significantly stronger than others, which will usually left 2 weakest religions without Reformation.Why not just reduce the people required to reform?
I don't think so. First of all keep in mind that as i said usually one religion is significantly stronger because they snowball. Second, keep in mind that number of Reformation beliefs is limited, thats not only about getting reformation, it is about getting the right one. Third, most Founders scale pretty damn good from number of cities/followers so it still makes enough reason for strong religion to continue spreading after they reformedThat makes the gameplay more shallow. If the number of people required for reform is reduced, there are more reformers, and there's less chance you can't reform. If there's less chance you can't reform, there's a less important opportunity cost. It reduces the strategic depth present in the game.
Ideally Reformation would remain limited, but not be limited merely to wide religions.
You need to factor city states.EDIT: I really like 15% because for Standard map, 5 Religions per 8-10 players on average it requires to spread to MORE than 1 Civilization. Usually when you spread to a non-founder - they start to buy missionaries and spread your religion all over their cities. When someone succeeded with conversion of one non-founder - there is less civs left. This is an ideal number to create some religion wars where you are spending faith on Missionaries to get that final 1-2%, which is a lot of fun!
Only some of them do. I think this is tied to another problem people are pointing out though. If I want to spread and keep my religion in that area, I'm usually going to conquer it. Its just easier that competing with the AI in a missionary war.Third, most Founders scale pretty damn good from number of cities/followers so it still makes enough reason for strong religion to continue spreading after they reformed
That doesn't change things much, just imagine that average civ has 9-10 cities instead of 7-8.You need to factor city states.
Thats why i was saying that Jesuit and Masses faith/culture on building should be removed and faith cost reduced.Reformation beliefs are pretty well balanced against each other, other than maybe Glory of God. If there is a problem with refromations, its that as a group they are too powerful. They all play directly into a win condition, and not having one makes it really hard to beat someone who does. Compare to founders, which while nice to have, you can certainly win without.
Thats why i was saying that Jesuit and Masses faith/culture on building should be removed and faith cost reduced.
4-8 turns? Public School is 1000 hammers if i'm not mistaken. Are you saying that you have ~125-250 hammers when you build those? You either ignore them and build BOTH Factory and Train Statin before them (which i can buy, but you don't need Jesuit at all in this case) or those numbers are just wrong.As others have already stated, removing the bonus science/culture would remove what some of us consider the primary benefits of the belief. I can churn out Universities and Public Schools in 4-8 turns in most cities in most of my games as it is (half that if I invest). I wouldn't use a Reformation Belief in most games to save a few turns of production/gold when there are other beliefs that offer long term benefits that aren't available any other way.