Funxus (6:09 AM) : Hello Gary
GaryNemo (6:09 AM) : Good morning. I'm checking the posts.
Funxus (6:10 AM) :
Nice, I just made a new post in the upcoming war thread 1660AD
Hope it isn't too late
GaryNemo (6:10 AM) :
Btw, I'm glad you put your school & other work first, then found time for your contribution here. Looks like you got it in an hour before the deadline. Jayne will be fine with it, I'm sure.
Funxus (6:11 AM) :
Thanks, I had to write about debt cancellation and it took much more time than I expected. I'm still sorry
I just checked the 1660 turn thread, and she just posted she has allready started.
GaryNemo (6:12 AM) :
Lets talk about debt cancellation. The problem first was tried and rejected in ancient Greece, I believe.
Yes, but she posted an hour after you did.
Funxus (6:13 AM) : No, I just posted it
Funxus (6:14 AM) :
In Greece, I didn't know that
GaryNemo (6:14 AM) :
Oh, I see. 2 posts. Well, we can hope. I just ICQ'd her to take a look at your post. She said she would.
Funxus (6:14 AM) :
I've just been writing about the debt problems today
Thank you
GaryNemo (6:15 AM) :
Well, a long time ago, in ancient Greece, they tried to cancel all debts.
I read about it in ancient Roman history, Livy iirc
The Romans investigated it, and decided it was chaos, not the answer.
However, it was frequently a popular idea. Hence, ongoing discussion.
At the time of the Roman Republic, 400BC - 40BC
GaryNemo (6:17 AM) :
The discussion was debt. Could you charge interest on interest? That was not in favor, the govt occasionally stopped that. It is common today, of course.
Funxus (6:17 AM) :
Maybe I should have checked the history of debt cancellation first.
GaryNemo (6:18 AM) :
You live and learn. I do. I'm sure your paper will be fine, wherever you started the epoch you researched.
You are learning process, and an assortment of facts. Age 15 iirc?
Funxus (6:18 AM) : 17...
Do you know what the problem was with cancelling all the debts? Why did it become chaos?
GaryNemo (6:19 AM) :
I can't recall why it became chaos. 17, High School, ah. My youngest turns 16 in 2 days.
GaryNemo (6:19 AM) :
Here is why I think it became chaos...
Perhaps 2 reasons.
1. it undermines the concept of property rights. Who owns what?
2. It undermines the productivity of rich people. The rich people, you know, are generally the greatest contributors of productivity. By definition, eh?
Funxus (6:20 AM) : I agree
GaryNemo (6:21 AM) :
Those are just my guess. Try reading Livy, a very ancient historian. Quetionable accuracy, but a huge record digging deeply back from his time 100BC or so.
Funxus (6:21 AM) :
Still, many of these countries have paid more in debt service charges, i.e. interest, then they borrowed from the beginning
GaryNemo (6:21 AM) : Yes, debt service charges.
The ancient govt felt it could meddle with that.
That did not affect the property rights totally, you see?
GaryNemo (6:22 AM) :
Yet it was popular. Helped to reduce poor peoples' payments.
What was the focus of your current paper? Scope? Premises? Conclusions?
Funxus (6:23 AM) :
More money is flowing from these countries to the rich western world than is flowing to them. Is it right to take money from poor people, just because they had egoistic dictators thirty years ago?
Funxus (6:23 AM) :
The point is:
Funxus (6:25 AM) :
To determine whether a total debt cancellation is possible or not. Then we found out from our sources that there is a program allready for debt relief, run by IMF / World Bank. So we made a comparison between the two to see what consequences they might have.
GaryNemo (6:25 AM) :
Interesting! Certainly relevant today!
GaryNemo (6:26 AM) :
Is IMF active today in Argentina? Brazil? My friend in England says the IMF is a useful organization, hard but helpful.
Funxus (6:27 AM) :
Well, I only know about their debt relief program, called HIPC (heavily indebted poor countries) initiaivte, and most of these countries are in Africa.
Funxus (6:28 AM) :
Outside Africa are: Honduras, Nicaragua, Guyana, Bolivia, Yemen, Vietnam, Laos and Myanmar
GaryNemo (6:28 AM) :
Africa is in real hard times. Is Gota Rike in Sweden?
The deep little countries, not Argentina & Brazil. I see.
Funxus (6:29 AM) : Maybe they have other programs in these countries
GaryNemo (6:29 AM) :
My friend in England says Africa is drifting back into the stone age. They drove the Europeans out many decades ago.
He only had to use his mace three times!
Funxus (6:29 AM) :
I assume there is a lot of poverty, even if the country is not a part of HIPC
GaryNemo (6:30 AM) :
You know Mace? Can of spray, temporarily blinds attacker?
Funxus (6:30 AM) : I think I know, who did he use it on?
GaryNemo (6:31 AM) :
He vacations for 3 months a year, always different parts of the world. Several trips thru parts of Africa.
GaryNemo (6:32 AM) :
Thugs somewhere in dark africa. Have you read Heart of Darkness? by Conrad iirc?
Funxus (6:32 AM) :
In Swedish Swden is called Sverige, which comes from Svea Rike (Empire of the Sveas). In Sweden there were three different peoples, those in north, Svear and Götar. I live wher the Götas lived.
Funxus (6:33 AM) : So Göta Rike means Empire of the Götas
GaryNemo (6:33 AM) :
Thank you. And thank you for the stuff on Eriksson. You see, I've learned to spell it correctly!
Funxus (6:33 AM) : No, I haven't read Heart of Darkness.
GaryNemo (6:33 AM) :
Incredible short story. A trip up a river in Africa. Great World Literature.
Funxus (6:33 AM) :
Nice, do you know about his father too?
Erik Röde, he discovered Gronland.
GaryNemo (6:34 AM) : What year?
Funxus (6:35 AM) :
I think his family lived on Iceland and he did something so that anyone could hurt him, is it called peaceless? Well, so he escaped to the west and found Greenland.
Funxus (6:35 AM) : Year, I could check it out...
GaryNemo (6:36 AM) : What is peaceless? Oh, a punishment?
Funxus (6:36 AM) : he died about 1000 AD
GaryNemo (6:37 AM) :
Great men. Did miracles with poor ships. To them, great powerful ships
Funxus (6:37 AM) :
Yes a punishment, meaning that those who hurt him cannot be punished, i.e. he is not protected by the law.
Funxus (6:38 AM) : Yes
GaryNemo (6:38 AM) :
Protected by the law is an important idea. It was a big issue with the Romans.
That's how they expanded. Carefully granted protection of the Roman Law.
Funxus (6:38 AM) :
Yes, one of the main fundaments of a society I think
GaryNemo (6:39 AM) :
Have you read The Road to Serfdom? By Hayak, iirc.
Funxus (6:40 AM) : No, I'm sorry. I actually don't read many books
GaryNemo (6:40 AM) :
by F. A. Hayek. got Nobel Prize Economics, 1974.
I know, you read what they tell you to. It's natural.
I began to read two years after I graduated from University.
It dawned on me, noone was telling me what to read!
Funxus (6:41 AM) :
Kind of, but I've read the two first books of LOTR, and am soon to begin with the third
GaryNemo (6:41 AM) :
LOTR is current popular junk. Lord of the Rings.
You could alternate, one junk, one good. That's what I do.
Funxus (6:42 AM) :
Yes, but the book can't bore me, it has to be amusing
GaryNemo (6:43 AM) : Your choice, its your time. The books I mentioned, they might not bore you...
Text books are boring, I agree. But essential to get people started with knowledge. A survey, a summary. Dry.
Funxus (6:44 AM) : The road to serfdom and Livia.
GaryNemo (6:44 AM) : Livy. Just a moment.
Funxus (6:44 AM) : Text books, as in books without pictures?
GaryNemo (6:44 AM) : Livy, "Early History of Rome"
GaryNemo (6:44 AM) : In America, a text Book is a book used in School.
Geography Text Book, Science text book. a generic term.
Funxus (6:45 AM) :
Ok, I see, that's what my english teacher always called it
GaryNemo (6:45 AM) :
Each year, the student gets a text book in each subject. Math History Science.
Funxus (6:45 AM) :
I actually went to an english speaking school, so I know what you mean
GaryNemo (6:46 AM) : Good!
These other books, the Great Books, they are not boring text books. You see?
Funxus (6:47 AM) :
I know, but I'm a slow reader so every book I read takes me at least a month to finish... That's what's boring I think
So, when I read I usually try to read books I want to have read
GaryNemo (6:48 AM) :
Quality, then Quantity. I can imagine English is still a struggle. My daughters have learned many languages. Me, just many computer languages.
Funxus (6:48 AM) : Computer languages, which ones?
I'm going to start the course programming A next week
GaryNemo (6:49 AM) : Oh, all of them, I guess. The language A? You mean C?
Funxus (6:49 AM) : No, A as in the first and easiest course in the subject
Next programming course will be programming B
GaryNemo (6:50 AM) :
Good. A, then B, I get it. Yes, begin with electricity, perhaps?
Or with data & knowledge structure?
Funxus (6:50 AM) : I actually have no idea
GaryNemo (6:50 AM) : Well, they do, so you will surely benefit!
Funxus (6:51 AM) : Hopefully I will learn all ofthem
GaryNemo (6:51 AM) :
Ask me any computer question, any time. Or any other question, for that matter.
Funxus (6:51 AM) :
I have tried VB and JAVA before, so I know a bit about progrmming
GaryNemo (6:51 AM) : Good. VB is a good place to start!
Funxus (6:51 AM) : Ok, one question:
What shall I do when MS Outlook takes 4 minutes to open?
It's really annoying
GaryNemo (6:53 AM) :
Use Pegasus or Eudora. Forget Outlook, it's a virus trap! Also, try running DeFrag.
Funxus (6:53 AM) : It is? What about Opera mailprogram?
GaryNemo (6:53 AM) :
People love Opera, I know that. As a browser is what I've heard.
Funxus (6:54 AM) :
The computer is just new, and it was that way when we got it, and the support told me to reinstall everything
GaryNemo (6:54 AM) :
That sounds like a lot of work.
Perhaps you ned more RAM?
Funxus (6:54 AM) :
Yes I know, but the computer is slow in general to, so maybe it's needed
Funxus (6:55 AM) :
I've got 512 RAM, 2,5 GHz processor P4. I thought it should be fast
GaryNemo (6:55 AM) :
It might be an easy $cheap thing to try. Oh, 512MB should be enough!
Well, the Bill Gates code is slow and buggy. Accepted fact.
Funxus (6:56 AM) :
I know, but Linux doesn't feel like the best alternatve, it's too hard
Funxus (6:57 AM) :
I'd probably be able to learn it, but my sister and parents, they don't even know windows
GaryNemo (6:57 AM) :
Yes, the peak was the old 486's. Then, computers were fast!
Funxus (6:57 AM) :
I got the feeling you never tried Opera?
GaryNemo (6:58 AM) :
Yes I have. It couldn't download Jayne's sav files. I could have fixed that, but...
Funxus (6:58 AM) :
You really should, it's much faster to move back and forth, and it automaatically removes all these pop-ups. I usually don't have any problems with downloading, strange.
GaryNemo (6:58 AM) :
I consumed resources and led to crashes just like Explorer. After 5-10 days, I would crash. Either way. Opera led to worse crashes than Explorer, slower reboot.
I might try it again. I have Opera 6.05
Funxus (6:59 AM) : Me too.
GaryNemo (7:00 AM) :
It is slowly starting now.... It nearly crashed my system. I'm back.
Funxus (7:01 AM) :
GaryNemo (7:01 AM) :
Yes. I must go now, I get to go swimming, to exercise.
Funxus (7:01 AM) :
Don't you have a job to do? Are you home or at work now?
GaryNemo (7:01 AM) : May I post this in Goofy chats?
Funxus (7:01 AM) : I see... Sure
GaryNemo (7:02 AM) :
I only slept 3 hours last night, came in to work 1.5 hours early.
Funxus (7:02 AM) : Okay, well I have physics to do...
GaryNemo (7:02 AM) : See ya! Always a pleasure, funxus!
I love Physics.
Funxus (7:03 AM) : The same, hope Jayne is done soon