GOTM 04 - Pre-Game Discussion

[godotnut]

That isn't to say that I think this is a lame choice for GOTM 4. Seems to me it's a perfect counter-balance to the last GOTM. I'm guessing that the conversations that come out of this GOTM will make a lot of us better and more versitile players.

 

[Thrallia]

ok...I did 4 more test starts, trying not to increase my upkeep too much...it appears it starts out at 2gc/turn so unless you pop a fast hut that gives you cash, you'll be at 80% science after the first turn, guaranteed.

I stopped testing at 4 more times however cause some weird stuff was starting to happen...I think my RNG was getting tired of so many new games in a row. my last one had 3 civs that start with mysticism, excluding myself, and ROME founded Buddhism, while I did manage to found Hinduism.

Also had one where three turns into researching fishing, the RNG decided to screw up my entire experiment and gave me fishing in a hut. I went ahead and finished, Hinduism was founded before Buddhism this time, and then I got Meditation in a hut...darned RNG, I was almost tempted to continue that game lol especially since I got a third hut 5 turns later that gave me masonry

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Oooooh this is a quandry. Indians are perfect for the strategy I most enjoy playing: Going for lots of early religions and wonders. But I normally play on monarch and from everything I've read in the forums, it looks unlikely that strategy will work very well on emperor. If I decide to join in this GOTM I'll have to do some serious thinking about how I'd want to play it first.

(Assuming I do join in - after spending hours and hours on my GOTM3 game, I'm in the 1900's and competing in the space race, but time before the submission deadline is running out and I don't know if I'll have time to finish the game before submitting it. If I end up having spent all that time and can't submit, that could make me think twice before joining another GOTM )

 

[T_Raccoon]

Oooooh this is a quandry. Indians are perfect for the strategy I most enjoy playing: Going for lots of early religions and wonders. But I normally play on monarch and from everything I've read in the forums, it looks unlikely that strategy will work very well on emperor. If I decide to join in this GOTM I'll have to do some serious thinking about how I'd want to play it first.

(Assuming I do join in - after spending hours and hours on my GOTM3 game, I'm in the 1900's and competing in the space race, but time before the submission deadline is running out and I don't know if I'll have time to finish the game before submitting it. If I end up having spent all that time and can't submit, that could make me think twice before joining another GOTM )

Its on normal speed not epic so it wont take as long to play as GOTM 3 did

 

[BadaBing]

Same feelings here about the difficulty. I'm still getting the hang of Prince (after getting toasted in GOTM03) so I'm doing all my learning at Prince or Monarch. Emporer's a bit too much of a leap for me yet.
But I might just be tempted if there's an extra settler on offer. Having that second city available straight off will mean I can dedicate one straight away to military, while the other concentrates on growth.

 

[toller pretzl]

I played a testgame with a very similar start. I was able to set and make the following goals :

1. Fishing, make workboats for the two clams; that's 4 food and 2 gold per clam.
2. Religion : be the first to get Polytheism and then Monotheism. I converted to Hinduism to get the extra happiness for a size 5 capitol.
3. Build Stonehenge; switched to Organized Religion for the extra 25 percent hammers.
4. Go for security:
a. started building a barracks while I was still in Organized Religion (and couldn't switch back to Paganism yet).
b. Research Hunting and Archery, because I will need archers soon against the barbarian archers.

This is where I am now, and I have yet to build my first settler.
I should say that I popped 57 gold from a hut on the second turn, so I could research right into Masonry at 100 percent.

 

[Monthar]

Since the trend is to increase the difficulty every time, it looks like I'm out of it for probably rest of the games.

 

[Thrallia]

Monthar:
I got hammered almost totally in the monarch game we just played, but I'll play this one too. Why not? there's no reason not to, and I believe Ainwood said that after this GOTM, the level would hover around here and monarch(or possibly lower) for awhile at least

 

[Seraphinus]

Could the members post some test starts if starting position is similar to proposed GOTM? Last month there was one posted and I found it very helpful. Maybe toller pretzl?

 

[Sparts]

IMHO founding an early religion is not as important as getting your hands on the Colussus or the Great Lighthouse. I've barely played with India, but I guess that with those fast workers (and the quick forge), it should even be possible to get them both. I'm not going to gamble for the Pyramids though, unless there's stone nearby.

Or maybe I'll forget about those wonders and kick some nearby civ?

Never played Ice Age, gonna do some testruns.

BTW amusing that independ of what type of map, barbarian activity is always expected to be high.

 

[toller pretzl]

Could the members post some test starts if starting position is similar to proposed GOTM? Last month there was one posted and I found it very helpful. Maybe toller pretzl?

Ok, here it is. Compared to the GOTM position, it has lots of forests, so it's probably a little more advantageous.

 

[Ronald]

Could the members post some test starts if starting position is similar to proposed GOTM? Last month there was one posted and I found it very helpful. Maybe toller pretzl?

I rebuilt the starting position with worldbuilder. So you have the exact same start as in gotm4:

View attachment 117745

Have fun

 

[Seraphinus]

Thanks. I will try Ronald's save and let you know how I done.

 

[ionimplant]

I rebuilt the starting position with worldbuilder. So you have the exact same start as in gotm4:

View attachment 117745

Have fun

thank you Ronald! hope some kind people will do this every gotm. and it'll be even better that it isn't just the starting position are similar just kidding

 

[The-Hawk]

I've never played an Ice Age map. Can somebody who has tell us what are the characteristics of that map?

From Sirian's map guide:

Ice Age
Global Map: World Wrap left to right
Oceanic Map: 84 plots wide at "Standard" map size
Glaciation: 36 plots tall at "Standard" map size
Bitter Cold: Only the equatorial region is still temperate. Little jungle, some forest.
Very Low Sea Level: Much of the oceans are now locked in ice. Where the land is still habitable
there is more of it to inhabit now. This makes for a unique Civ experience.

LANDMASS TYPE - Choose the size and number of landmasses

"Random" - DEFAULT - Weighted random roll that favors Islands and Narrow Continents but is capable of giving you any of the landmass options.
"Wide Continents" - Will give you one to three large continents.
"Narrow Continents" - Can vary in number of continents, but they tend to be narrow and snaky.
"Islands" - Large islands, mostly, perhaps some will snake together and combine.
"Small Islands" - Small islands and rarely anything you could call a continent.

 

[exitpoll]

In my opinion, the lack of commerce means that working the water tiles becomes pivotal in keeping up tech-wise early game.

This means fishing ==> fishing boat before worker is probably a good idea.

Something like: Build warrior or stonehenge, research fishing.
Switch to work work boat immediately when fishing is in
research BW
Build worker so that it arrives at the time of BW.
Chop second worker, chop settler. Maybe throw in a pop-rush to save a few turns on the second worker.

What to research next depends on surroundings.

I played the start through using the above ideas. Had 2 workers at 2920 and settler at 2640.

Would like to hear other opening ideas.

 

[Jastrow]

I am toying with the idea of fishing, and then straight to Pottery. I have tried it our a couple of times, and am reliably getting the Pyramids in about 750 BC, and Alphabet in 600 BC.

My main question is... Is 750 SAFE for the pyramids, or is there a chance tha I will get beaten to them. Having never played at emperor, I dont have a feel for this. Can some people experienced at this level give me a feel for when the pyramids might get built by a rival?????

(I am bypassing stonhenge while doing this, and will avoid specialist until the Pyramids pop a great engineer.)

 

[mike p]

Tricksy starting postion, I'd say. No obviously dominant opening move that I can see.

Settling in place seems reasonable - plains hills for an extra hammer and better defense while still have fresh water, clams, cows, and deer. It would be a great place for my second city! I'm almost tempted to move to the blue circle to the north and pray for gold or gems!

I'd like more commerce. No river, so hooking up resources and your second city will take longer, as well as less commerce. The clams will give some commerce, but neither a camp on the deer or a pasture will. Still, with 4 food bonus tiles and one fresh water lake we can probably cottage a lot of the plains.

With only two forests in the starting city radius, you lose health at your first chop. I only see one other forest on the borders from the initial screenshot, so depending on the neighboring territory, grabbing bronze working to start may not be optimal - need workboats, camps and pastures before you can really get the whip cracking.

Also, both the north and west look like they have either desert or coastal squares just out view - we could be on an isthmus or penisula, which will help minimize barbarian activity. We could also get hemmed in by rival civs if we don't expand early.

Three potential starting tech strategies I see:

1. Go religious. Try to grab Hinduism or Buddhism and then on to monotheism and focus on building stonehenge and a shrine or two. No problem on Noble, but with no commerce except for your city square and palace until AFTER you research pottery or fishing, I think it's too much of a risk on Emperor. Good Luck to anyone brave enough to hunt the Hydra with this start! If you chase religious techs you won't be able to work any of the surrounding terrain - you can build one grassland hill mine - and then your fast worker will be idle. OTOH with no luxuries in sight, you might need religion to grow. The population gets cranky quickly on Emperor.

2. Grab Bronze working first and get choppin'. Always a good default move, but there aren't an abundance of forests. Knowing where the bronze is early on Emperor is big help though. It might be worth it to settle your second city directly on any Bronze you find. Not have to wait for the wheel to connect your bronze (and not needed a separate force to protect the mine from pillaging) can be the difference between death and survival on Emperor, in my experience.

3. Go for fishing to accelerate growth and research, then hunting to bring the deer on line. warriors, then work boats, then a worker. work in a scout or two and hope for goodies. Pump out a couple of settlers, and see what other resources are around.

I'll probably start with fishing and then play it by ear. It really depends on what other resources are around and what techs I may pop from huts. I expect we'll see a lot of different people pull off a lot of different openings.

Off to play a normal speed game! I'm usually a marathon junkie.

 

[ainwood]

Question: I've been in the top 50% on both GOTM 1&2 (doubt I'll finish 3) and wonder if I'll still be able to play the Conquest class. Am I allowed? Other than one OCC Space win on Monarch I haven't played an SP Monarch game. Never tried an SP Emperor game.

This is something that we're not going to be draconian about. We would 'strongly encourage' you to give the normal version a try - remember that you lose 15% of your score for playing conquests.

General guide is that you have never finished in the top half or you've never won on the chosen difficulty.

 

[Sparts]

Settling in place seems reasonable - plains hills for an extra hammer and better defense while still have fresh water, clams, cows, and deer. It would be a great place for my second city! I'm almost tempted to move to the blue circle to the north and pray for gold or gems!

You better not, nothing but water there. Probably a fish though, or else I don't think there'd be a blue circle . If you ARE going unconventional, you should move your first city south, and cram another city north (after choping that forrest of course). It's a gamble though. As this is the first emperor Gotm, I can barely imagine there are no good city sites to the west.
For the same reason I'm willing to bet there's either copper or iron nearby (maybe on one of those hills?).

I'd like more commerce. No river, so hooking up resources and your second city will take longer, as well as less commerce.

You can hook up your cities by sea. As you are going to get sailing anyway.....

The clams will give some commerce, but neither a camp on the deer or a pasture will. Still, with 4 food bonus tiles and one fresh water lake we can probably cottage a lot of the plains.

And with fast workers, those cottages are built rather quickly. On the other hand Colussus and a lighthouse would make those sea tiles (and clams and fresh water tile) lot more interesting.

With only two forests in the starting city radius, you lose health at your first chop. I only see one other forest on the borders from the initial screenshot, so depending on the neighboring territory, grabbing bronze working to start may not be optimal - need workboats, camps and pastures before you can really get the whip cracking.

Fair enough, but you gain 3 health from the cow, deer and clams too. I have to do some thinking whether those three forrest (that's all we have) should be used for a workboat, settler or wonder. Of course we'll only know for sure when you know what the other civs are doing. A big gamble, and one which for many people will mean the difference between victory and defeat.

Also, both the north and west look like they have either desert or coastal squares just out view - we could be on an isthmus or penisula, which will help minimize barbarian activity. We could also get hemmed in by rival civs if we don't expand early.

North is definately coastal, West is grassland and plains. Smells like penisula. And you are right we run the risk of being hemmed in early. A nearby civ could be a game breaker, and as this is the first Emperor GoTM, I doubt it).

Three potential starting tech strategies I see:

1. Go religious. Try to grab Hinduism or Buddhism and then on to monotheism and focus on building stonehenge and a shrine or two. No problem on Noble, but with no commerce except for your city square and palace until AFTER you research pottery or fishing, I think it's too much of a risk on Emperor. Good Luck to anyone brave enough to hunt the Hydra with this start! If you chase religious techs you won't be able to work any of the surrounding terrain - you can build one grassland hill mine - and then your fast worker will be idle. OTOH with no luxuries in sight, you might need religion to grow. The population gets cranky quickly on Emperor.

That's right, but your neighbors can get cranky when you are of a different religion. I usually just adopt the religio of a nearby powerhouse. On a side note, I doubt the benefits of founding a religion. Especially as I'll feel obliged to pick one city to build nothing but missionaries. But then again, I'm an atheist.

2. Grab Bronze working first and get choppin'. Always a good default move, but there aren't an abundance of forests. Knowing where the bronze is early on Emperor is big help though. It might be worth it to settle your second city directly on any Bronze you find. Not have to wait for the wheel to connect your bronze (and not needed a separate force to protect the mine from pillaging) can be the difference between death and survival on Emperor, in my experience.

As I said above, with only three forrests nearby, I'm wondering whether chopping for a settler (or workboat) would be the best use of that wood. Perhaps that lumber is better spend on a wonder (Pyramids?, Colussus?, Great Lighthouse?), IF there is plenty of room to expand.