GOTM #13 *Spoilers* Thread

[Greg Loader]

"The Aztecs are religous so you would only have one turn of anarchy. IMHO a golden age with 1 turn of anarchy and 19 turns of republic or monarchy is much better than 20 turns of despotism." da_greatest

ARRRRGH. I'll switch to republic. I thought expansionist had 1 anarchy. I really must do my homework better before these games, it's no wonder I don't do better. BTW, thanks.

God, I got my first 4 by 10AD, prior to Heroic. It's taken me 700 years to get the next 2 WITH Heroic Epic! I agree that you should have AT LEAST 3 cities prior to GA. What good is a GA if you have no cities in which to boost production.

Greg

 

[Cartouche Bee]

Greg, I went for the early Golden Age as indicated in my first post but it does depend on what your aim is. Later GA is definitely good for building expensive improvements or spaceship parts.

However, with regards to your obsolete units, when I switched up to republic I disbanded all my jags and any swordsmen that were not elite to save the cash. Seems like a bad decision but it will save me thousands of gold over 400 turns.

 

[God]

Originally posted by Cartouche Bee
Greg, I went for the early Golden Age as indicated in my first post but it does depend on what your aim is. Later GA is definitely good for building expensive improvements or spaceship parts.

However, with regards to your obsolete units, when I switched up to republic I disbanded all my jags and any swordsmen that were not elite to save the cash. Seems like a bad decision but it will save me thousands of gold over 400 turns.

The problem with waiting later is that by then either the AI is far ahead or you're far ahead, but this doesn't always have to be true. I have had a few space races. I think they are more likely on higher levels though.

I never switch to republic. IMO its the most useless form of government. Democracy is better. Monarchy is by far the best. You don't make as much cash which means you don't go through techs as fast, but you also can't have too many units and fight too much. I keep all my units from beginning to end, always have a huge standing army. I don't like it when I am forced to draft and hurry as somebody is invading. Also being under republic means smaller standing army, which results in AI bullying you and attacking you.

I guess its just my warmongerer attitude.

 

[Cartouche Bee]

I usually play the situation. this game I needed Navigation, so I went to Republic so speed research. I'm sure if I had stuck to Monarchy I would not have made it to Navigation by 700AD. As for being pushed around, well, my power rating, it's well more than all the other civs rankings combined, I should make it to the end somehow even with a poor form of government.

 

[Kuhal]

I had a BC GA which was not planned but I didn't care really. It helped boost my army production which I could argue gave me the continent.

I saw a comment about letting enemy cities survive to 700AD. Sounds dangerous if they manage to make contact with the other civs because if you ar elike me you may have damaged your reputation in taking the continent right? Well as far as I know, if there has been no contact between those you have a poor reputation with, and those you have not yet met, then the bad reputation doesn't get passed on. Am I right here? I could be wrong...I remember a post about it somewhere form one of the game designers..."What they don't know won't hurt them" type of thing.

I killed off all of the enemies on both continents with about 100 years of each other. Early AD I think it was... They weren't getting me any techs and their workers were too slow so there was no point keeping them around

 

[Greg Loader]

God, 19 turns of Republic and 1 turn anarchy in a Golden Age was no doubt better that 20 turns in Despotism. I am just sorry I didn't switch to Monarchy and then Republic as soon as these became available.

However, I too, often go directly to Democracy, or else Republic/Democracy when I know Anarchy will be 7 turns or so....

I'm at 1000AD and just got my ***8th Great Leader***, which I will use for Bach's Cathedral in a couple of turns. However, unless those pesky Romans invade my continent (and I think I might harrass them a little to get them to declare war), I should have no more fighting or Great Leaders.

Kuhal, I kept the enemy cities around to trigger a GA with Jag Warriors and I have kept a decent reputation - haven't razed any cities, havent broken any deals, trade maps often... I don't see any need for moving to the second continent until and unless I need resources. I already have 28 cities, and I am not planning a Cultural/domination/conquest Victory. This might be a mistake, that wine looks sweet.....

Greg

 

[Overlag]

wow, im doing good in this game, not as good as you lot, but no less, better that the AI, looks like the first time on this level im going to win Did everyone get a settler from that early hut? or was i just lucky?

 

[Raskolnikov]

I did surprisingly well on this game I have been climbing the difficulty ladder, winning a few Emporer games before this Monarch GOTM- what a difference!

Seeing those iron resources way down south, I immedietely crushed the potentially productive Russians and stealing their homeland. I destroyed the Persians, Egyptians and Zulus before getting sailboats. After a dozen or so triremes and sails disappeared at sea, one heroic sail discovered the eastern continent. I then built up culture and knights and set sail with an armada the second i traded for navigation. Just as my galleons and cavalry were set to finish of the continent (the Indians and the Iroquois had already succomed to my knights!), I won the game by domination.

It was great seeing a dozen ships (on three occasions) braving the great ocean to lay waste to the eastern continent. Unfortunately, my single Army was stuck in my homeland during the great wars, setting to sea on a galleon just before the end!

Anyway- Can't wait for GOTM XIV

 

[Yndy]

Unlike all of you I'm still stuck with all the AI's surrounding me while I have only enough cities to allow me to build the FP. My territory is third largest and still I am almost surrounded by the russians which are twice my size.
I am now on a tech race to get to Navigation/Magnetism and having everybody researching sure helps. Unfortunately I get sneak-attacked from time to time as everybody is so crammed on the little continent. Given the situation I'll go for a science focused victory, namely Space Victory.
Unfortunately I will have to wage a war to get hold of another iron (the egyptian culture took my first one), and I'll do the Great Library takeover to boost my science.
It's a pity that the Russians which are scientific and the largest civ, don't focus on science and instead attack me and the zulus.

Did I mention that I made a mess out of this game? I only play it to keep my 100% victory on Monarch.

 

[Quokka]

After moving my Worker onto the NW Wheat I decided to move my Settler to the west towards the trees to save time mining. I would just irrigate the Wheat and my first JW could get the Goodie Hut. Well so much for plans.
A Russian scout took the hut before my first JW was made. Not Happy Jan! The Russians close is always bad. But it got better as I got a Settler out of the hut on the western Flood Plains which I used to secure the Dyes. My next Settler got the Gems to the east.
I didn't want an early GA so a JW war was out, so I waited for Horsies and then Swords. Then nothing for a while as I got neither Horses or Iron close to any cities so I had to make some new ones. The only good thing to come out of this was that by the time I got both of those resources I had some great cities to make an army with. I held off attacking for a while until I got a large army and; Russia built the Pyramids in Moscow (which I took 2 turns later), Persia built the Colossus in Persepolis (which I took about 20 turns after) and Egypt built the Great Lighthouse in Thebes (which I took a few turns before the Colossus). While they were all building these I was building units. They had none when I attacked, Russia first because they had made Demands before I was ready.
I razed pretty much every Russian city except Moscow. I got 18 Russian slaves out of that war and placed some cities in proper spots to take advantage of all the greenery. The Russians had managed to get 2 settlers thru to the jungle before I could block them. I left them these cities.
I attacked Egypt just as soon as all my units could move down there and heal. I took all their cities but there was a Settler out there and with all the jungle it would be too hard to find. It turned up right on the tip of the peninsula on the east coast. I left it for ages.
Persia went quickly also having wasted all its effort on the Colossus. They only used Immortals on the last turn of the war and in defense. They had managed to get a city on the small island to the north.
One thing that all three wars had in common was that every city I took had 1 or 2 Settlers + Workers in it giving me a huge amount of slave workers (40+). These 3 wars ended by 0AD. I was in Monarchy, triggered my GA on the last of the Russians and it ended about the same time as the Persians. I had the Great Library but had to give Currency and Construction to the Persians and the Russians to kick them into the Middle ages and give me Monotheism. This was the only tech I got from the Library. I have gotten all of the Wonders after The Great Wall. London was the only other city to build a Wonder and the turn after the Great Wall the English were destroyed. The Japanese a turn later.
China only had 4 cities so it was ripe and fell in 4 turns. I took Beijing first, razed it and moved it onto the Wines and coast. 15 Caravels could move in about 20 Knights/turn on ave. The Romans were nothing but a bit larger. I got a GL for my FP attacking Veii, which is where I was going to put it anyway, very convenient.
After building Magellan's I finally found the other continent. Iroquois and Greece had it roughly 50/50 with 3 Indian cities squashed onto the north. I swapped Engineering to the Iroquois for Incense, Furs, World Map + 25G/turn.
Distance is the only thing that has saved them. I had a number of Galleons settling the little islands to prevent the others from doing the same. Thank God for cheap Temples. But this slowed down sending forces against the others.
While waiting for Galleons to build/return I cleaned out the Zulu's and mopped up the one city civs, and did manage to get enough troops over to wipe out the Indains. I have now started a war with Greece and allied with Iroquois. They are having a terrific fight while I watch and wait for my Transports to arrive. I get Flight in 2 turns which should speed the conquest up.
It's now 1640AD. I don't know whether to go for the Conquest or go for Space Race?

 

[guardianciv3]

I seem to be going in the opposite direction. My game seems to have the bend but don't break civs. As of 1700's only the English have been destroyed, leaving 10 civs still wandering about. Most are down to 2-5 cities as the AI doesn't seem to want to finish any one off. The Russians and the Persians have been wiped of the starting continent and I am currently taking an island of Russian cities down south. The Egyptians are small but powerful and the Zulus are big but backward. I have cavalry forces along the border waiting for whichever civ is getting cranky. With 11 civs, I went for the culture win and am on my way. I pumped up the currency and went straight for the GL with my GA. Got it and caught up my tech. Persia and Russia built some good wonders which are know under my control. Iraquios are in the lead but I have yet to interact with them. My games tend to go all the way to the end, I must not have that killer instinct.

 

[Moonsinger]

Well, this was my first GOTM. I orginally just wanted to try it out for the QSC, but once I got it going, I couldn't stop.

4000 BC:
Build Tenochitlan
The Navajo tribe has taught us Pottery
Start research on Alphabet (will be done in 40 turns)
Move Worker#1 NW
Research=20%; Happiness=0%; Gold=10 (+3gpt)

3450BC:
Meet Zulu & Persian

3600BC:
Get Bronze Working from the South Hut (this is really useless since the Egyptian was willing to give it to me for free or dirt cheap)

3550BC:
Declare war on Zululand
Kill the Zulu Scout near Zululand border in the South

3150BC:
Get Masonry from the South East Hut (another useless hut since I could get it from the Persian dirt cheap)

2950BC:
Shaka Paid 10 Golds for Peace Treaty (no battle ever fought between us and the Zululand). How is about that? I won a war without ever have to fight any battle.

2670BC:
Give Mansonry to Rusia for 15 Golds
Declare War on Egypt
Capture Egyptian Worker
Declare War on Rusia
Capture Rusian Worker

2350BC:
Sign Peace Treaty with Egypt (no battle ever fought between us and Egypt). I won another war without ever have to fight any battle.

2310BC:
Our JWarrior accidentally killed a Rusian Warrior
Our Civ unexpectedly enter the Golden Age

2150BC:
We discover Alphabet
Start research on Mathematics (will be done in 40 turns)

2030BC:
Catherine Paid Worker+The Wheel + 40 Golds for Peace

1625BC:
The end of Golden Age
Total Units: 17 JWarriors; 2 spearmans; 3 regular workers; 3 foreign workers
668 Golds in storage

1600BC:
Trade Alphabet with Cleopatra for Iron Working + 70 Golds
Trade Alphabet With Catherine for Mysticism + 1 Gold

1425BC:
Trade Alphabet with Shaka for 50 Golds

1000BC:
We discover Mathematics
Trade Mathematics with Cleopatra for 70 Golds + Polytheism
Trade Mathematics + 21 Golds with Catherine for Writing
Trade Mysticism with Shaka for 26 Golds
Trade Polytheism with Xerxes for Horseback Riding + 17 Golds

Total Units: 30 JWarriors; 4 spearmans; 8 regular workers; 3 foreign workers
1601 Golds in storage (including 75 golds from destroying 3 barb camps)

----

Around 800BC, I hooked up iron from the south (near the Zulu border) and upgrade more than 3 dozen of veteran Jwarrior to swordmans and immediately finish off the Rusian without any problem.

I went on to finish off Persia before they get iron; therefore, no immortals to worry about.

After that, Egypt was the next to go. They just had a few spearmans and didn't stand a chance against my elite swordmans. Since their palace was ontop a hill, I lost four swordmans trying to capture it. Other than that, no problem.

Of course, the Zulus was no match. They got about 5 towns and in the desert and swamp. Other than Egypt, the Zulus was the second one with the worst starting position in this game. Anyway, it was a bloody war trying to kill off a half dozen of Impies. At one point, I sent my only army of horseman (at full health of 14 HP) against a single Impi on an open plain and lost! This was my worst depeat ever. It took me more than 30 turns and lost a half dozen more horsemans just to finish them off. Those Impies were really dangerous!

After getting my own island, I searched for Republic and immediately aimed for Navigation. Under Republic, my civ could discover new tech in every 4 turns (while still making about 23 GPT) and I got to Navigation within less than 20 turns.

After crossing the big ocean, I saw an open square near the Ivory and I built a town there. I named this town "Ivory Heaven" (since there are a lot of ivories near by); my people were all happy with six luxuries. In the meantime, I was starting to ship all my knights across the ocean to Ivory Heaven and start the long search for Cavalry. Once I got Cavalry (Greece, Iroquois, Japan, and Britain just got Knight at this time; they are the only four rulers on this side of the world), I finished all of them within 20 turns. That was it! This game was fairly easily.

 

[Gen. Maximus]

Weird!
Got an error when my Elite Swordman killed Russian archer near Moscow.

LOAD ERROR

Error Reading File

"\Art\Units\Leader\Leader.INI"

Weird thing is that this directory doesn't exist. I can find \Art\Units\Leader Ancient\Leader.INI but certainly not that of above. I'm playinig 1.29 with PTW installed but executed the classic CivIII program not PTW.
Never had such problem before, must be due to the recent installation of PTW.
Anybody else got this problem?

 

[Cartouche Bee]

Gen. Maximus, there was a post about this yesterday in the general discussions, the problem was not solved, mind you the poster did not mention PTW.

Try posting the situation up in the PTW bug forum.

 

[Cartouche Bee]

Gen. Maximus, the incident yesterday was resolved, I think the game was saved in PTW and then they tried to open it up with Civ3. If that is your case, you might have to go back to an older save or autosaves if they are still there.

 

[God]

Continued my assaults on Iroqious: I conquered more cites. Some had heavy resistence and there were several turns of artillery bombing before I could send the cavs in with some hope. Got a few more leaders, but had nothing much to rush so I got the useless Universal Suffrage. My core cities were just finishing off factories after having built hospitals when I won. I was disappointed by the Iroqiuos because I was hoping for a nice long bitter siege of Salamanca but it fell fast.

Finished and sent my game off. Good one. Not a high score but ok considering I haven't played the game in 5 months and forgot many strategies like my landing on the other continent without any good defence.

 

[Overlag]

i cant tell the exact time line of events but so far so good

1: expanded fast and met some close rivals
2: finished settling, found russia to be slightly bigger than me Egypt and zulu about the same size. Persia little... but expanding on tiny islands (galleys over seas?!?!)
3: russia goes to war with poor little Persia
4: i join in, to stop Russia gaining too much space
5: persia, all but destroyed on the home land, Russia taking 1 city, razing another, me taking 2 citys
6: Meet China and Rome, Rome starts to attack China
7: China dies
8: Russia invades Egypt, i join in
9: take 2 citys ( i think) then peace
10: Rome Invades Russia, and with MPP pulls me into it! grrr
11: Russia destroyed on home land 4 citys to me, 1 to rome, One of the very old Persian citys flips back to them!
12: Rome starts war on Egypt, again, MPP gets me into it.
13: one of my citys on a large island in the middle falls to Egypt, 2nd city starts rushing Riflemen
14: Egypt down to 3 citys on home land, Peace
15: look at clock and its 5am

should make more notes next time, about events...hmmmm

 

[civ_steve]

Man it took a long time for ME to discover the other civs!! Maybe I micromanage just a little too much, or I don't spend enough time playing the game (maybe 10-15 hours a week total).

Huts: I started the thread regarding Settlers from Huts in GOTM12. Here, I only opened 2, and got local Maps (oh boy, how exciting!) and 3 angry warriors (even more exciting!!)

GLs: None in my early conquests of Russia, Persia and Egypt. Finally got 2 (so far) when I decided to take out Rome and China (more about that later.) I built a Cavalry army quickly with the first, and the second is waiting to build Newton's (2 more turns).

GA: Mine was very early (only 1 city), but it has lead to my easy domination of my continent. Therefore, I'd say it was well-placed.

From before: I finished off Egypt (down to 1 city, to get techs, and then finally 20 turns later.) I left the Zulu alone; their terrain sucks; I built cities up to their territory, and have been culturally assimilating them as I go (two cities so far).

I also left Rome and China alone. I had the Great Library, and decided to research all the way to Military Tradition first, just to see if MAYBE I could get a free Monotheism from a Rome/China trade (or maybe be discovered, and learn through the new contacts). Not to be. So I started researching along the upper half of the Research Tree, and sent the Cav's, Muskets and Cannon to their island to teach them the importance of cooperation. Rome's down to 2 cities, and China's down to 4 (but only 2 on their island.)

Researching to Military Tradition had one drawback. Two turns before I eventually researched Theology, the Greeks built the Sistine Chapel. (I had a city building palace, intending to change production. Instead, they build a Cathedral, wasting 541 shields in the process. )

So I ended up researching all the Middle Age Techs myself, eventually got Magnetism and sent my Galleys/Caravels/Galleons off exploring. Found the English, got Maps and communications. Iroquois are dominating, Greece and Japan are fairly strong, England is ejected to a remote island with about 5 cities, and India is down to 1 city only.

It's early 1300's AD, I'm about to finish Theory of Gravity, and the most advanced Tech I can trade to the other civs is Chemistry! This game is in the bag; I just have to finish it. I'm going to finish Rome and China, and then Zululand. By that time I should be very industrialized for my invasion of the other lands. (Or maybe I'll just go cultural - we'll see!)

Interesting Thing: I'm used to the AI wanting outrageous money for Communications. In this game, they gave me the better deals to get Communications with the Zulu!! I guess this was because I was the only one who could give them this. (I guess.)

 

[Greg Loader]

I love those Romans. Early AD, having secured my Island, leading in tech, and with about 10,000 in the bank, I finally asked their ships to leave. Of course war was declared, and they have obliged me with two or three troops every fourth turn or so ( It takes restraint for me not to sink any of their galleons - If I did, then how would they get their troops here! I should have built some privateers, though, to keep my allies from attacking the roman navy.)

This war can go on forever as far as I'm concerned - will I ever have war weariness if it does? My civ is still happy in the mid 1700's (I wasn't the one who declared war) and every wonder has been mine.

I have a great rep with the other civs - all polite or gracious. They didn't seem to mind at all that I had attacked all the cities on my continent. After I sold them communications with the zulu, russians and persians, just before I took their last cities (I never razed a city). And they really appreciated the generous handout 40 turns ago, when I suggested they declare war on Rome; better with me than against me.

Thing is, next turn, I build The United Nations(GL #9 - I number them), and decide whether or not to hold a vote.

I have one 'named' elite, calvary filled army and 5 empty armies stationed outside my capital ready to fill with tanks. But, I have no taste for foreign wars. I know, I know, "...kick ass, take gas" but I just don't have the heart to invade. Two defenders per city and a dozen or so calvary is all the army I want.

Culture will take a while longer (tho, I'm double all others). I suppose, I'm guessing the better players in this GOTM will do a bit of warmongering this game - I had planned to space race, but, with the careless mistakes I've made staying in despotism, I think I'll go for Diplomatic.

Cartouche Bee, I took your advice and converted all but my elete swordsman to shields. Never missed them.

God, I've been considering the proposition that the later, the better, for diplomacy and spaceship. Though, if you'r already researching at 4 turns a tech, then a later age wouldn't help science. The earlier the better for the others - assuming you have a good core of cities.

guardianciv3, btw, England is alive and kicking in my game, as are all the 'distant' civsIndia, Iroquois, Japanese... It's fortunate they all remained about the same size, but on the other hand, they never warred with each other, as far as I can tell.

Overlag and civ_steve, no settlers from huts. Got an advance and then stayed put.

Kahul, I too started most of my wars by capturing workers, (or accidentally disconnecting resources, cough, cough..). BTW, none of my cities could build ironworks. Slightly different placement, I guess, there sure was a lot of iron and coal though, n'est pas?

 

[Overlag]

i got a settler from the first hut.... thats all

first time though