GOTM 25 **Spolier**

I had 5 cities at 1 AD. I had no illusions about counquering this foul world. ;) I did manage to colonize Australia, South America, the India sub-continet and a little piece of China and the East Indies. It was interesting and at least I survived to retire. :)
 
My Opening plans for a GOTM 25 OCC

In reading the opening GOTM 25 thread (not the spoiler thread) we notice:
Monarchy
‘Revealed Map’
Raging Hordes -- soon to be my good friends.

Two excellent pluses for a conquering OCC, the barbs & an open map.

On the downside, the opening pic matches the New Zealand shape for a very large map -- great distances to travel for conquest. Also, my tactics for early battles are far from an experienced level.

To do: Reread Kev’s account -- done.

Draw up desired Wonder List & tech plan. -- done.

Draw up basic battle plan.

Given the opening site, Shields will be a BIG problem at the start and throughout the early game. KRC will be key. Also given the opening site, we expect to be far away from everyone else -- so speed will be required to meet folks & conduct ‘business’. By implication, this means that MPE will be valuable as well. Questions -- pop nearby huts (expect a few in Australia)? Same comment about the South pole & SE Asia.

Expect 4 civs on Eurasia/Africa, & two in the Americas; maybe we’ll get ‘lucky’ and an odd civ will be on an island.

Wonder List:

Anc.: Col = 4; LH = 2; GW = 3 (I don’t want it, but I don’t want it in my way either). Prefer that Pyr not effective, and GL not effective. HG & OR irrelevant.

Ren.: MPE = 4; Shakes = 5; KRC = 5, Cope’s = 4; Sun Tsu = 4; Eiffel = 1, Mike’s =1; This should be the toughest part of the set of decisions.

IR: Leo’s = 4; IN = 4; Magellan = 3; Statue = 3 (I’m thinking of using Fundy ASAP); Darwin = 2; JSB = 1; AS = 1.

Mod.: WS = 1; UN = 2; HD = 3; SETI = 2; Cure = 1; Manh = 2; Apollo = 2. If the game lasts well into this stage, I’m in serious trouble.

Basic Plan part 1 -- get boats & dips out for Non units. These will be the core of my early army, hopefully taking out a civ before 1 AD.
Plan part 2 -- typical OCC for science, wonder building, trade & especially TRIBUTE. I think that having a friend or two supplying funds will greatly put the caravans into Wonders and let the Wonders get me where I need to be.
Plan part 3 -- if my allies can be at war, then the science of both sides should be slower and the growth of both civs similarly less.
Plan part 4 -- I don’t have to do this alone -- hopefully, my soon to be good buddies, the barbs may take a few cities -- decreasing the need to raze everything.

If we start in Monarchy, then the first techs needed will be Map & Write for boats & dips. Trade has to come soon after & Seafaring as well. I’m up in the air about Poly & Mono -- having those units early are nice, but attention there comes at a cost of perhaps a couple of key wonders that I want; after the “Wonder Wars”, I might be better off getting knights. Also after the long travel to meet the other civs, my ele’s will be meeting archers or legions… a little defense would be nice as well.

Note -- I think that after trade, the research path must be straight for Engineering with one side turn for Medicine. With Shakes & KRC firmly in hand, the techs for science wonders and Sun Tsu look inviting.
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Wonders. Col is nice, very nice in OCC & desired here as well. LH can be useful, but triremes can make it to Asia & along the South Pole to the Americas as well. So LH is not required. I don’t want GW, but I’d prefer it (and the other ancient Wonders) to not be a factor against me. I figure that rather than Kev’s slow tech plan, I’ll have more tech in my game, partially due to my desire for trades & tribute and partially due to the greater distances involved. A civ with the GW will just be cycled to a later conquest with tech being a factor.

MPE is early enough and cheap enough to be considered an early Wonder. It too is highly desired, but there are workarounds with dips & the ‘revealed map’. On the down side, the workarounds are imperfect if there are civ splits, in that new embassies will be required. in short order, if tech is moving along, KRC, Shakes (both KEY), and Copes could all be at risk at the same time. Just after those three, Sun Tsu, Leo & Magellan should all be at risk. (And I want to be spending my time & resources smacking down civs.) IN & the Statue come a bit later, and should be the last of the Wonders that I’m really shooting for.

My rationale for Copes & IN are insurance for an edge in the late tech stages, should the game progress to that era. Similarly, if the game gets close to Industrialization, I may have to switch to a rapid tech drive to get to miniaturization & back to a decent level of production capability so I can field modern units.
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Tactics to consider -- Use of Non Settlers to build a South Pole road, South America road & Asian road -- decreasing the pressure of creating and maintaining a boat chain.

If barbs are “close” see if they can ‘finish off’/take over a city. Maybe make a few barb towns this way -- more units for purchase, maybe more units to press the other civs. I wonder if a lot of barb towns would decrease the other types of barb activity.

Ideally, my builds should be: a few boats at start & some infrastructure & a Wonder, and nothing but camels & dips until the modern era. If enough barbs can show up, ‘get purchased’ I may be able to get away without having to build & then ship supported units (perhaps unhappy ones at that in a Rep or Dem without Shakes) many, many spaces away.

Grow my one city to good size via We love -- the better to get arrows for $$$ (and shields with KRC). Also a few trade routes would be appreciated. The Col & KRC pay off much more nicely with a city than a town (duh).

Alternate plans -- missing out on a few of my desired wonders will alter plans -- missing Shakes makes the Statue (and early Fundy/Commy) more attractive. Ditto with missing KRC.

Geography. Assuming four civs on the Eur/Asia/Africa continent will attract my initial forces. By going after them first, I hope to decrease whatever combined activities they may pursue, so my ideal case would be four civs close to one another, at war with one of them my ally giving me tribute. Meanwhile two other “civilized” perfectionist civs are growing only slowly and both passing $$ my way. Finally, my friends the barbs visit them often for fun and profit.

Tech plan:
Alpha
Write
Map (may switch with Write depending upon potential Scenario Status)
Bronze
Currency
Code
Trade
CB
Myst
Lit
Phil
Rep
Mas
Const
(HBR -- hope for a trade here; maybe avoid it altogether if I can get Wheel and later Chiv in a timely fashion)
Wheel
Eng. Key tech -- KRC will be the second most crucial Wonder for this game
Math
Astro
Medicine -- Shakes will be the most important Wonder unless I can get Statue & go Fundy
Pott
Sea -- This may have to be moved up the list -- Harbors required for real growth to size 12 & beyond
WC
Feudal -- Sun Tsu would be very nice to have
Chiv
Inv -- Leo’s is another very nice to have
Nav -- Magellan’s is a nice to have
IW
Gun
Lead
Uni
Metal -- End of GW
TG
Bank
Demo
Conscrip
Tactics

New variables to consider -- with the initial opportunity for Monarchy, can a tech drive for Trade allow me to use camels for my first Wonder (Col)? Depending upon huts & Barbs, the Warrior techs might be deferred & the army could be Nones -- so $$ will be key. Third, a major effort will be undertaken to cultivate allies primarily for gifts and secondarily for military actions.

A boat chain to North America might be the way to go if I luck out with a Hides repeater.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
First couple of turns survey the board; Top five cities show four other colors.
3900 -- Found Auckland on the open grass; revolt
3850 -- Monarchy; begin research for Alphabet
3700 -- Learn Alphabet, on to Write
3350 -- Learn Write, on to Map (buy the build to Barracks, switch to Library; building because extra warriors would take up shields and provide no additional value)
2850 Finish the Library, start a Dip (None Settler is improving the North island)
2800 -- Learn Map, on to Bronze
2550 -- Finish my first boat, load a warrior & sail to the South Pole
2250 -- Discover Bronze, finish a Dip, load the None Settler head south (for Asia)
1900 -- We’re third most advanced (and we view this with mixed feelings)
(1850 -- We see 4 Orange, 2 Purple, 2 Dk. Blue and one Yellow cities; no other colors yet)
1700 -- Discover Code of Laws, on to Currency
1350 -- Carthage begins Colossus; hmmm we’re not happy, we were hoping that the other civs would start HG & Pyr…
1300 -- Disband Warrior at the South Pole. We’ve seen no huts anywhere, and the suspicions mount…we’re beginning to think that we’ll never see huts this game. Strike two for the basic plan.
1200 -- Discover Currency, on to Trade. we’ll continue with the gamble to use camels for Wonders at the start; hopefully the boat/Dip gambit will payoff with tech and cash to justify their early shields.
1000 -- The None Settler is in Asia building a Himalayan road. Squeezing him back into Auckland didn’t make enough sense given the long route for future traffic. I’ll keep him in the hills and mountains, decreasing the odds that he’ll get bumped off and decreasing the odds that another civ will come along and plant a city too soon in the way.
975 -- Meanwhile my boat/dip is on the NE Asia coast with Barbs Archers close by…and I only have 44 coins in the treasury. (toggle for more gold…)
875 -- Finally have 60+ gold, buy a None Archer; but the Leader gets away
775 -- Big trade with Mongolia brings in three techs (CB, Wheel, & HBR) and $100g; Tech hit is 10 turns for next advance it now takes 16 turns for each advance)
625 -- Ask for gift, get…nothing (We see 7 Orange, 4 Yellow, 5 Dk. Blue, & 4 Purple cities -- looking like only 4 other civs)
575 -- Discover Trade, on to Myst (Vikings start Pyramids); Commodities available = Beads (3 potential customers), Salt (zip) & Gems (one potential customer).
550 -- Carthage builds Colossus. :cry: We’re NOT happy with this. OK, lesson learned, if you want an early Wonder, the first one needs to be worked the hard way if you expect one city to do it all by itself. Science the old fashioned way will be slower as well as the other ($$) benefits reduced. The only (dim) bright spot is we’ll get to see Flight sooner.
500 -- Carthage starts Sun Tsu. Uh-oh; bad for at least two reasons.
250 -- 200K pop., we’re third largest city and we blow up.
225 -- (Back with a smilie)
125 -- Trade Lit/Myst, and ask for a gift -- get IW
25 -- (Vikes build the Pyramids)

Status check -- one embassy, no wonders, :( no huts, no barb leaders, low on funds, :( slow on science. :( Looks less than optimal. :( :( :(
 
Originally posted by Old n Slow
My Opening plans for a GOTM 25 OCC

Questions -- pop nearby huts (expect a few in Australia)? Same comment about the South pole & SE Asia.

Expect 4 civs on Eurasia/Africa, & two in the Americas; maybe we’ll get ‘lucky’ and an odd civ will be on an island.

Basic Plan part 1 -- get boats & dips out for Non units. These will be the core of my early army, hopefully taking out a civ before 1 AD.

1300 -- Disband Warrior at the South Pole. We’ve seen no huts anywhere, and the suspicions mount…we’re beginning to think that we’ll never see huts this game. Strike two for the basic plan.

Sorry, Old n Slow: I asked twice about huts (that was my biggest suggestion in the Future GOTM thread), then loaded a Large World map and "revealed the map" and saw that huts should have been visible from the get-go (I thought I saw something about you doing a test too?). Also, it was a Scenario, so DoM was up to something... Turns out he played with the civs a bit too.

I did not think I could do this GOTM as OCC without huts, given the terrible start (South Island at least had a decent 4-special site) and Bloodlust. Barbs were my biggest problem, besides tedium and terribly long distances to other civs.

One interesting thing: the Mongols had more than 1 city? In mine they never garrisoned their single city, they spent many turns in disorder or with multiple Entertainers, and they finally got taken out by a couple of Viking Chariots. I also saw growth rates of the other civs leading me to believe they did not adopt Monarchy at the earliest opportunity. I wonder if they do not "appreciate/notice" techs that are "given" them rather than the freebie starters. Might do some testing on this, as it has affected several GOTMs so far.

I had been playing a variant of Early Landing strategies on this GOTM, but got fed up with poor production of gold (I was not caravaning to the other civs due to Bloodlust and long distances) and started WLTCD to max cities. I'll post a log soon but I'm not sure I'm going to finish this one. My basic strategy, after looking at early city growth problems, became one of "go for max science rates, get to MobWar/Robotics when they are just reaching Gunpowder, and crush with tanks" but the tedium is getting me down and the Early Landing Comparison Game over at Apolyton.Net is looking very intriguing...
 
We forge ahead (or at least sideways)
20 AD -- Trade Trade for WC, get $150 gift as well.
40 -- Camel to Karakorum = 204g
60 -- Discover Phil, Feud & on to Republic (Feud was desired for two reasons, both later dispelled -- Sun Tsu & early use of knights)
(200 -- Carthage completes Sun Tsu)
220 -- Pay 100g to Carthage
260 -- Camel (d) to Gades = 184g.
320 -- Discover Rep.
380 -- Change to Republic; Camel to Utica (n) =216
400 -- Complete Temple
420 -- We love starts for a bit.
460 -- Discover Medicine, on to Masonry; Swap Rep & Phil for Cons & Pot; (Mongols want $100, asked before we could -- we’re not allies anymore. Maybe I should have given it and then asked for it back -- Hmm?)
560 -- Buy Mkt.
640 -- Complete Shake’s. (Hey it opened up a Camel slot -- dye!)
(680 -- Carthage builds LH)
800 -- Discover Masonry, on to Seafaring
(900 -- Vikes start KRC; Carthage builds GW Not good, not good at all)
980 -- Embassy with Spain -- Swap Rep for Sea (pause for the science to adjust…Opt for Eng)
1000 -- Copper to Cordoba (d) =398g (and frees up Beads); toggle for some We Love
1020 -- Discover Eng on to Sanitation
1080 -- pop = 600K (Spain builds Oracle)
1120 -- pop = 700K, size 12. Toggle to 5.5.0
1140 -- Buy a barb Knight & boat (but both are Auckland, rats.:rolleyes: Establish embassy with Carthage. dye (d) to Gades = 384g.
1160 -- Discover Sanitation, on to Bank send out boat with Beads & a Dip to Europe (Trondheim demands Beads….maybe they’ll still want them by the time we get there.)
1220 -- Barbs next door again (we’re PRBing Camels for KRC -- don’t have the resources to spare to buy up supported barbs or even a sewer! We have 3 food caravans and a gold camel in Auckland.)
1280 -- Up to 5 food & a gold camel
1320 -- Have the magic sixth food camel -- (Vikings nearly complete KRC; Carthage nearly completes KRC)
1340 -- Auckland completes King Richards Crusade. :D The Vikes give up & Carthage gets Marco Polo’s as the silver medal.
1400 -- Toggle to 1.3.6 & buy the sewer; start We love.
1420 -- We love is cancelled as barbs sail nearby
1440 -- discover Banking, on to Invention. Carthage starts Copes
(1480 -- Mongols start Copes)
1500 -- Barbs are finally gone & we start We Love again.
1510 -- Talk to our good buddies the Carthaginins & swap some techs for Nav & Chivalry; ask for a gift & we get chivalry again! Whatta deal!
1530 -- Pop = 1M (Carthage builds Copes)
1580 -- size = 19, shields = 25 available
1600 -- Auckland builds Magellan’s Exploration (Carthage switches to Mike’s, Spain abandons; Dye opens up.) ask for gift, get Physics.
(1620 -- Carthage completes Mikes)
1630 We build a camel -- but it is food! (The Dye window closed!)
1640 -- End We Love; Auckland is size 22
1650 -- Ask for gift, we get Invention. Establish embassy with Vikings, pay $100 & get peace.
Status check. We have one city (size = 22), three wonders -- (Shake’s, KRC, Magellan), 31 Techs, 1 Settler (N), 1 Archer (N), 3 triremes, 1 Diplomat, 3 Camels with 1 in process; $129g.
Facing: Vikings with 11 cities, 29 techs, Monarchy, Peace, 946 g, Pyramids
Spain with 12 cities, 25 techs, Republic, Enthusiastic Peace, 2370 g, Hanging Gardens & Oracle
Mongols with 13 cities, 35 techs, Republic, Hostile, Peace, 437g, Great Library
Carthage with 13 cities, 35 techs, Republic, Enthusiastic, Allied, 2210g, remaining seven wonders
1660 -- Gold (n) to Toledo = 448
1670 -- Discover Democracy, on to University; Beads to Trondheim (d) = 672 (yes this was the boat that set sail in 1160. Good thing it wasn’t perishable goods!)
At this point, we re-think the goings on & try a sanity check. We have yet to fire a single bullet & we’re seriously outnumbered…49 cities to 1; and razing these cities will take considerable resources yet to be acquired, not too mention the future cities yet to be started. We’re thinking that continuing with just the one city won’t cut it. So we start a settler.
1680 -- Build a settler, swap techs with the Vikes & Carthage, get Mono, Uni, Gun and no gift.
1690 -- Found Dunedin, our second city (we have 38 techs).
1710 -- Discover Steam, on to Mag. (War starts with the Mongols, Carthage completes Leo’s)
1720 -- Auckland builds another settler.
1730 -- Swap Steam for Lead, no gift.
1750 -- Barbs appear off the coast -- now have to build some real guys just in case. Auckland builds barracks.
1752 -- Auckland builds vet muskets (Dunedin builds non-vet Muskets.)
1754 -- Dunedin builds temple
1756 -- Dunedin grows to size 2, (Settler joins for size 3) move units to let barbs land (will need them to get out of the way for Dunedin’s We Love).
1758 -- Dunedin buys Courthouse; Auckland builds Beads caravan
1760 -- Carthage gifts $200g; Swap some techs, get Chem, Mag & Metal. (Carthage builds Eiffel) Spain now an Ally.
1766 -- Buy a University
1772 -- Discover Electricity
1782 -- Found Canberra. Get $200g from Carthage & $75g from Spain (Carthage builds SoL) Dye (d) to Cordoba = $808g
1784 -- Discover Refridge, on to Explosives (why not Electronics? Carthage will build any wonder in about three to four turns, so I’d better have the camels in line before the tech pops out.)
1786 -- Get $50g from Spain & $200g from Carthage; Swap Techs for RR, Conscription, & Economics. Now have 3 cities & 48 techs.
Carthage has 14 Cities & 48 techs; Mongolia has 15 cities & 39 techs; Spain has 15 cities & 36 techs; Vikings have 15 cities & 36 techs. Russians have yet to fire a shot or bribe a non-barb unit or city. Hmmmm. Seems like we're doing this the slow way...
 
ElephantU -- my log (part three) shows an number of payoffs with trucks in the high $00's to $1K range with Carthage. I'm now in the mid-1850's (have yet to fire a shot) & will write up this portion of the log soon. I don't think that it is ever too late to start up a good thing (I still don't have a good boat chain), but even fragments work.

I figured that my "late start" might still be interesting, so I decided to work it through to see how it plays out. I'm not familiar with the "Early Landing Strategy" per se -- I'll have to look into it.
 
Originally posted by ElephantU

My basic strategy, after looking at early city growth problems, became one of "go for max science rates, get to MobWar/Robotics when they are just reaching Gunpowder, and crush with tanks"

This is precisely the strategy that I chose.
It will be fun to compare with smash, who chose to conquer the world with mighty crusaders onboard gracious triremes.
 
Originally posted by Old n Slow
I'm not familiar with the "Early Landing Strategy" per se -- I'll have to look into it.
You'll be surprised: samson and solo have discovered so much about the dynamics of trade that it is almost like playing a new game.
( In the current comparison game, I managed to land in 1803, playing 'traditional', and solo managed 1276 :crazyeye: )
 
Well I finished in 1X90.

I wonder if I'm 1 turn sooner or many turns later ;)
 
If x is the square root of my age, then it means 'many turns later'.
Otherwise, i guess it's going to be 'one turn sooner', because it would be the third GOTM in a row that someone finishes one turn sooner than I do, and we have a say in French: "jamais deux sans trois" ;) .
 
In this game, I have no chance of getting in top 5. I am playing with howitzers now. Developing my own lands without the help of other civs took longer than I thought.
 
Originally posted by Old n Slow
I'm not familiar with the "Early Landing Strategy" per se -- I'll have to look into it.

Check these out:

Going for 500 AD:
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=70512

Going for 1000AD without huts:
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=76250

Early Landing Comparison Game #1
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=77410

It uses a blend of OCC and Multi-City strategies aimed at getting the earliest possible spaceship launch. Lately we've been investigating minimizing "luck" factors such as starting techs and huts. It really makes you think through the time factors of each move you make. Pretty scary, too, leaving cities undefended and gifting techs to the Mongols!
 
Originally posted by Old n Slow
640 -- Complete Shake’s. (Hey it opened up a Camel slot -- dye!)

1000 -- Copper to Cordoba (d) =398g (and frees up Beads); toggle for some We Love

1160 -- Discover Sanitation, on to Bank send out boat with Beads & a Dip to Europe (Trondheim demands Beads….maybe they’ll still want them by the time we get there.)

1600 -- Auckland builds Magellan’s Exploration (Carthage switches to Mike’s, Spain abandons; Dye opens up.)

1630 We build a camel -- but it is food! (The Dye window closed!)

Old n Slow: Take a look over on Apolyton.Net about "unblocking commodities" and "supply/demand equations". When all your commodities are blocked but you deliver a caravan to a wonder or payoff, it MIGHT unblock one of the commodities. Something "behind the scenes" needs to change to make it happen, such as terrain development, tech aquisition, or city growth. There is a natural 16-turn cycle for refreshing each cities list, but a delivery will cause a mid-cycle refresh. When an opponent's city is not changing you can depend on their commodity demands not changing much either, but remember that getting more techs is also one of the things that can cause changes. Once you see a commodity open up, build the caravan as fast as possible! Dye is one of the notorious "exceptions" to the general rules, so I would have done that one in 1 turn if possible!
 
Funny, the choices of AI civs for this GOTM: for each color, they are the most militaristic of the 3 choices. But the default civ starting locations have been moved to the middle of the furthest-away large continents (North America, Europe, Africa, Asia). So there was no early contact, and very long travel distances. If it were not for the map showing us the AI cities from the start it would have been a VERY tough game...
 
ElephantU -- I remember reading through some of the discussion a while back -- the 16 day cycle does stick in my mind. My game is a little too careless to get to that fine of a grain of detail, though, but maybe someday... Thanks, I’ll check through the research.

A similar thought comes to mind -- has anyone computed the “interest rate” on the various potential “investments”? I think that given the time value of money one would consider that coming up with 200 shields for a Wonder early on is more “expensive” than 600 shields later in the game due to the relative opportunity cost. With the basic thoughts in place, one can then adjust the “risk” of the portfolio and mitigate the risk by having defensive measures put into place, or even “investing” in conquest.

Regarding this game, I’m not sure that the “showing of cities” was that critical for me -- a nicety, yes (but it helped to goad me in for the OCC doomed attempt), but by the time I get around for friendly visits with folks, they usually are hospitable enough to offer many places to tour.
 
Originally posted by Old n Slow
My Opening plans for a GOTM 25 OCC

In reading the opening GOTM 25 thread (not the spoiler thread) we notice:
Monarchy
‘Revealed Map’
Raging Hordes -- soon to be my good friends.

Two excellent pluses for a conquering OCC, the barbs & an open map.

On the downside, the opening pic matches the New Zealand shape for a very large map -- great distances to travel for conquest. Also, my tactics for early battles are far from an experienced level.
Isnt the point moot. I thought I saw bloodlust is on, so no spaceships to save the day
 
Militaristic AI?

I didn't notice. In fact I played ICS despite starting in New Zealand. In 1AD I had 32 cities and in 1000AD 98 cities.

I thought this was a good idea to expand in Asia in the AI:s directions and build roads and new cities on the way. I used Crusaders at first to attack with but when the ais discovered feudalism I was about to get gunpowder so I attacked mostly with hordes of musketeers after that.

I didn't trade much in this game so science was slow going. I got three routes between my capital and the city on the south island and then celebrated these cities up to size 20 while in Republic. Corruption was a major problem beacuse of the big distances so I built SoL and switched to Communism for a while. When I had all techs I needed I switched to Fundy and later on I played 10 turns of celebrating Democracy to increase my population.
 
Done. I finished 1861 ad, finally. I ended with 78 million people and two future techs.

Next time I will try to build alot of cities like cliff and Smash.
 
I've reached the conclusion that I won't be able to finish this game in time. :( I've got too much left to do and too much going on at home. I spent a lot of time micromanaging cities and not enough time going after the neighbors. I'm around 1750, with about 50 cities I believe - many of which are in the 12-20 size range. After many centuies of stagnation when I went to Republic, it's turned into a really nice little economy - but I just don't have the time to carry it out to victory, especially with bloodlust. The Mongols have long been down to pet status, I've acquired about a third of the Spanish cities (and most of the rest are in my sights!) but I haven't even begun to deal with the Vikes or Carthage. I'm just not used to this size map and the large contiguous land areas.

Oh well...maybe if I eventually come back and finish the game, I'll post my results for comparison. I probably need to stick to the OCC-able games.
 
I've got the same problem - too much to conquer, and still no tanks yet. If Bloodlust was off I could have gone for AC...
 
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