GOTM 36 Pre-Game Discussion

[Tone]

Colossus is E, R and C. (It would be strange if it didn't fit the commerce trait.)

Internet will trigger a GA for any civ that has not had one already.

The warning about timing the GLHouse is something to bear in mind although I must admit that I won't be aiming to build it myself at this level.

 

[CKS]

in my game colossus says expan, reli and commers

Yes. In a test game last night I started a golden age when I built the colossus.

I'm considering first city on the river, second city on the coast with an eye for a 20K win. I don't know if this is reasonable for me on emperor, though. I have lots of trouble dealing with boats; emperor is a stretch for me; and my warfare skills aren't good, even against just barbarians. I'm thinking that it wouldn't be hard to switch to diplomacy if the 20K thing falls through; usually that is the easiest way to win for me. On the other hand, I've only had a couple of emperor wins so it may not matter what I want,

For starting moves, I'm leaning toward worker north, scout east. I'll waste some worker moves, but I'd waste some anyway, and I'm curious. The worker is moving first, and the scout may go south if the worker reveals anything that affects where I put my first city.

 

[solenoozerec]

That's why you have to read the thread.

The best rule of thumb I've seen was, I think, suggested by ainwood, though I don't know where it was. He suggested a core should be at least 50% of the Optimum City Number for the map. I think this means 8 cities on a standard map?

Thank you. If 50% of OCN is the amount of cities when you are allowed to build FP, than it is indeed 8 for a stnadard map.
So, if I build 8 cities in a remote island and then jump my palace there, nobody will kill me?
The reason why I might want it is if I will decide to go for 100K (very unlikely, I never ever did 100K and too scared to try it on emperor level, but who knows what I will be thinking in three days :crazy: ). So if I will go for 100K, jumping palaces from island to island will help a lot in building temples/libraries in all cities.

 

[Celebithil]

Expanionists never get barbs from huts. They also have a better chance of getting a settler/city than other tribes (if you don't have one already or are building one)

I read something like this in Oystein's article about probabilities of goody huts, and did some tests (for opening moves). In one of them I was building a settler in my capital and popped a settler from a goody hut nonetheless. So what is going on here?

Besides if you really can't pop a settler from a goody hut if you are building one, is it a good idea to change production of all settlers to some building before popping a hut and after popping the hut changing it back?

Anyway I'm going to try and get my first emperor win on this game, with two cows nearby I should at least have a good start. (Unless I pop-rush a settler at size 3 , which I did in GOTM 35, after which I quit in utter frustration. I restarted the game and won nicely, but I disqualified myself for submission.)

Edited to let my remarks about my past stupidity not cast a shadow forward over this game. (i.e. changed 36 to 35 in the hopes that I have learned from my mistake)

 

[solenoozerec]

I read something like this in Oystein's article about probabilities of goody huts, and did some tests (for opening moves). In one of them I was building a settler in my capital and popped a settler from a goody hut nonetheless. So what is going on here?

Besides if you really can't pop a settler from a goody hut if you are building one, is it a good idea to change production of all settlers to some building before popping a hut and after popping the hut changing it back?

As I recall that article, it never said anything about building settler. It said that if you HAVE a settler you cannot pop it out of a goody hut.

 

[solenoozerec]

which I did in GOTM 36,

Where????!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[AlanH]

I never ever did 100K and too scared to try it on emperor level, but who knows what I will be thinking in three days :crazy: ).

Oh! Great idea! I think you should!

So if I will go for 100K, jumping palaces from island to island will help a lot in building temples/libraries in all cities.

SirPleb used multiple palace jumps to do this in his last 100K GOTM or COTM if I recall correctly. It might be worth having a look at his timelines. However, I don't recall if it was C3C game. If so he wasn't getting any benefit from the remote palace exploit.

 

[solenoozerec]

Oh! Great idea! I think you should!

SirPleb used multiple palace jumps to do this in his last 100K GOTM or COTM if I recall correctly. It might be worth having a look at his timelines. However, I don't recall if it was C3C game. If so he wasn't getting any benefit from the remote palace exploit.

Yes, I think he did it twice in GOTM34. And this is why I was asking about conditions under which it is allowed.
It will be frustrating to break the law just because I do not know the law. Not knowing law is not an excuse for breaking it , so I was trying to collect information.

 

[Gyathaar]

irc it changed from vanilla to ptw

I checked in vanilla and ptw.. in vanilla 1.29f, collossus is expansionist and religious. In Ptw 1.27f it has commersial added.

I assume the savegames will created so they have same values in the gotm thou?

 

[Celebithil]

As I recall that article, it never said anything about building settler. It said that if you HAVE a settler you cannot pop it out of a goody hut.

The article at http://www.civfanatics.com/civ3acad_goodyhuts.shtml, I read was about C3C, so things may be different in PTW, but it does say that there are no settlers from huts if one is in production.

 

[denyd]

Generally, if you move your palace to a place with quite a few cities (8-10+) that you spend time developing (adding buildings and improving the land, etc) that isn't considered abusing the move.

An example on map of earth would be if your original capital was in New York and your FP was in Philadelphia (about 100 miles west). Then you moved you capital to Los Angeles (about 2000 miles west of NY). As long as you were using those cities no one would complain. You could then move your capital to Paris and develop a core around you new capital. Again no complaints. However if you moved your capital to Honolulu or Johansberg and just left is there, you'd be hearing rumblings of discord from the gallery.

 

[solenoozerec]

The article at http://www.civfanatics.com/civ3acad_goodyhuts.shtml, I read was about C3C, so things may be different in PTW, but it does say that there are no settlers from huts if one is in production.

Yes, you are right it says “active or in production” I think (though not sure) that I was getting a settler too while it was in production. But may be it was indeed in PTW and this is the reason?

 

[A'AbarachAmadan]

Opening moves & conjectured plan?
Settler SW, settler factory
Explorer W (for view of coast), then S; continue S & E (since we are north)
inner RCP at distance 3 (at least 2 on river)
2d city military factory
3d city, coastal, Great Lighthouse prebuild
research straight to MM (Wr at min; MM at max)
Cavalry Domination Victory planned (need to keep the world pristine without industry)

 

[Mistfit]

One thing that I was considering trying was to set up my initial cities with the intention of doing a palace jump. I've now been schooled in the finer arts of the palace jump in a couple of SG's and they seem to work wonders. (thanks AlanH )

What I mean is to set up my capital not as the center of my rings. I'll have it be in the 3 ring of my future Forbidden Palace so when I jump the Palace it is in perfect rings. It may or may not work dependant on the land mass but I may try it this game.

 

[AlanH]

thanks AlanH

Well, I obviously didn't do a good job, 'cos you don't need precise rings round the FP. Your FP cities form up within "disks" equal in radius to the "rings" around your new palace. Cities in each disk have corruption rank equal to the cities in the equivalent Palace ring.

 

[Mistfit]

I do know it's not "Needed" but it sure would be Pretty

 

[solenoozerec]

Generally, if you move your palace to a place with quite a few cities (8-10+) that you spend time developing (adding buildings and improving the land, etc) that isn't considered abusing the move.

An example on map of earth would be if your original capital was in New York and your FP was in Philadelphia (about 100 miles west). Then you moved you capital to Los Angeles (about 2000 miles west of NY). As long as you were using those cities no one would complain. You could then move your capital to Paris and develop a core around you new capital. Again no complaints. However if you moved your capital to Honolulu or Johansberg and just left is there, you'd be hearing rumblings of discord from the gallery.

So do you mean that in Russia, Peter the Great has abused this move by building a new city Saint-Petersburg at the edge of the growing empire and making it a capital?

 

[denyd]

Actually yes.

In the period when he moved his capital to the edge of his empire was a very daring move.

In today's world where everything is interconnected and communication has rendered distance a minimal hazard to control, the people of the western US feel that the eastern US is out of touch with their needs and desires. In the days of Peter the Great, that was the seeds of revolution and secession from the empire.

Now back to the topic at hand. I'm leaning towards worker S to the BG, Scount E-E and Settler SW to settle with both cows in immediate use. I'm going to try and get that first settler out ASAP while my scout peruses the island. If as I suspect the island is not very big (think Spain in GOTM 30), I'll get that second city to pump out workers and city #3 for barracks and warriors. At least one of those 2 will be on the coast to start building ships ASAP. My research will probably be Writing at minimum (not much different that at max) then Map Making & Literature aiming for Great Library, if I get it, I'll turn off science and start building lots of galleys for expansion and to meet some new friends. Since we've got a female leader this time, Theodora will probably get rescued from that Russian prision where she wound up at the end of COTM 3 (at least she took out Ghandi before Catherine's Cossacks landed).

 

[ainwood]

The other aspect of the rules for palace jumping is that if you are (say) jumping it from island to island, it doesn't violate the rank corruption bug unless you have less than OCN/2 cities that are closer to the palace than to the FP. When you have a large, sprawling empire, then it is actually not that restrictive, especially on an archapelago map - you have a lot of cities at quite a distance from your FP anyway, normaly.

 

[ainwood]

I checked in vanilla and ptw.. in vanilla 1.29f, collossus is expansionist and religious. In Ptw 1.27f it has commersial added.

I assume the savegames will created so they have same values in the gotm thou?

I will check and confirm to ensure that all saves have the same settings. However, a 'blank' (ie non-GOTM) Vanilla Civ scenario also lists the traits of the Colossus as Expansioninst, Religious and Commercial.