GOTM 39 Pre-Game Discussion:

[Redbad]

... Start research on wheel, then Iron Working, then HBR to secure all AA units and to begin looking for resources...

This looks a bit risky to me: the wheel is an expensive one, will you have a granary in time (pottery)? Moreover you'll start relatively late on iron working, will you be the first? Researching HBR deprives you of the possibility to prebuild chariots. On a crowded pangea the AI is likely to research that one in time for you to trade for and use.

I would suggest the following:
First max on pottery for domestic use (granary). Ofcourse if it can be traded for/with, then by all means.
Second max on iron working for commercial use. You should be able to get it first on monarch. With a first on iron working and most (or all) contacts it could be possible to get all first tier techs, mayby even mysticism. Give a priority on trading for the wheel though. By now all the strategic resources can be located.

From then on it depends on ones goals imho.
You can quite school, do some serious butt kicking and pick up the odd pointy stick invention.
You can capatilize on the scientific treat and research towards literature and republic, for moving in a 100k, diplo or space direction.
You can research a well timed literature and monarchy for a 20k goal. Ofcourse combined with some booms and bangs for GL fishing.

 

[WillowBrook]

I'm thinking that getting the Great Library could be important this game. Tech-wise it could be next to useless given that we're on monarch, but if we hope to win the game before the late modern ages and want a golden age, it'll have to be by wonders, and the scientific property of TGL will be key.

So my research will probably be iron working and then as fast as possible to Lit. I hope that the other civs will be able to provide the other first and second-tier techs. At least on pangaea I can be quite sure that I won't find myself alone until mapmaking.

 

[Sabre]

I believe capturing the Great Library will also work for those with warlike plans. If you can make sure a neighbor patsy gets Literature quickly you can take it just before a Sun Tzu build and have a nicely timed Golden Age. Iron Working, then to Lit would still be a good tech path. Get Lit to a selection of possible early targets (with this game we should have a decent selection) and beeline for Republic. Hopefully capture the Great Library to gain the other needed AA techs. A free Feudalism would then work out nice. A Golden Aged early Middle Ages would be a nice way to break out of a crowd.

 

[Tone]

Also on the topic of wonder induced GAs, don't forget that any wonder can set off a GA if you already have wonders under your control that satistfy your civs attributes when you build yours. So don't worry if you miss out on Leo's and Sun Tzu, just capture the GLib and one of these (or the GWall) before you build one of the other wonders.

 

[Redbad]

@willowbrook, sabre and tone:

thx for mentioning that: I did not realize that, although there are three scientific wonders before panzers, the great library is the only timely one. (the others are newton's university and theory of evolution).
With regard to the military wonders: there are four of them before panzers and three are timely. These wonders are great wall, Sun Tzu, Leonardo's and universal suffrage.

 

[Wanderer]

Hmm ... well, after getting my 4$$ handed in GOTM38 ... well, pretty much anyway - won't finish before cut-off time, and I'm 3rd of the 5 civ's left, a nice little Monarch would be nice.

Specially since I've just started polaying Civ3 again, after about 1 year or so off ... too much NWN means I keep on wanting to talk to the others

I like the idea of chopping that forest to boost first build - I'm also thinking pottery, if I can get it in time for the chop - I think we might finish the chopping too early to get the tech?

Can't recall - is playing similar game start's acceptable practice for GOTM?

If so, how do I get 11 civ's on a std. size map, in creating game, or do I have to do it via game setup in Editor?

TIA

 

[AlanH]

Welcome back Wanderer. You can run practice starts if you like, as long as they aren't on the actual competition map and you do it before you open the starting save. Beats trying to use Excel as a simulator I'll defer to the experts on how you can create a 12-civ standard map (11 plus Germany). I know almost nothing about the editor.

 

[Redbad]

I like the idea of chopping that forest to boost first build - I'm also thinking pottery, if I can get it in time for the chop - I think we might finish the chopping too early to get the tech?

It will be close. According to my rude calculations it goes something like this:
turn 1 build capitol and working forest-deer (2 food 2 shield: totals 2 food 3 shields), start building warrior, worker to forest-deer, research max at pottery (24 turns)
turn 2 warrior 3 shields, worker starts chop on forest
turn 3 warrior 6 shields
turn 4 warrior 9 shields, switch work to riverbank
turn 5 build warrior start new one, switch work to forest-deer
turn 6 warrior 3 shields
turn 7 warrior 6 shields
turn 8 warrior 9 shields, switch work to riverbank
turn 9 build warrior, start settler, work to forest-deer
turn 10 extra citizen: settler 5 shields, extra citizen works river bank (2 food, 0 shields)
turn 11 forest chop complete: settler 18 shields, worker irrigate deer

Situation at this moment: approx.
1 shield per turn (only city centre)
growth in 6 turns (+3 food)
pottery in about 8 turns (mayby 9, mayby 7, but i think 8)
settler completion: about 10 turns
So settler-prebuild can be switched just in time to granary.

All of the above ofcourse asuming:
1. there's no reason to move initial settler (no interesting new tiles available)
2. there's no trading before building the granary

 

[Wanderer]

Thanks AlanH. Awaint guru / begin of GOTM39

 

[Redbad]

At least on pangaea I can be quite sure that I won't find myself alone until mapmaking.

I think, in principle, it's possible though. IIrc in the gotm or cotm where the aces started their AAC's, it was a pangea map and still there was one civ on an island of their own.

 

[eldar]

COTM05, Incas - Carthage were all alone on an island, but separated from the mainland by coastal squares only.

 

[Redbad]

COTM05, Incas - Carthage were all alone on an island, but separated from the mainland by coastal squares only.

Then mayby you could contact someone before mapmaking, but one can surely forget all about an archer rush

Edit:
Btw this is what Klarius wrote prior to the china-game:

Hmm, a settler and worker as conquest bonus, but no military.
Maybe we are all alone on our island, or at least the AI civs are very far away.

Our conquest bonusses are worker and scout, so no militay either

 

[Gato Loco]

I aggree that the best move would be to settle in place or NW, in order to settle on a river and keep from having to irrigate a grassland. The two moves are shown below:

Moving trades two jungles for two unknown spaces, which would be a good thing except that you lose a turn moving the settler. The only other way to differentiate between these two placements is to scout with the worker, since both placements use all 9 initially revealed squares. Moving the worker to the forest reveals one of the "gained" tiles and may reveal three more if they're hills or mountains. Moving the worker east reveals the three non-jungle "lost" tiles. Since we're looking for BG's, not mountains, I'd lean in favor of this worker move even if it costs us a couple worker turns. If there's something good (Cow, wheat, wine, multiple BG's), settle in place. If it's just three plain grasslands, settle NW and roll the dice.

Any thoughts? I guess the counter-argument would be that there's an inherent bias against movement, and that you wouldn't want to move even if the three "L" spaces are regular grasslands.

p.s. Since there look to be 7 unrevealed grasslands in the "settle in place" position, that should come out to ~2 BGs if about 1 in 3 grasslands are bonuses. Does this change our calculations?

 

[Tubby Rower]

p.s. Since there look to be 7 unrevealed grasslands in the "settle in place" position, that should come out to ~2 BGs if about 1 in 3 grasslands are bonuses. Does this change our calculations?

Is the 1 in 3 grasslands are bonus a hard set rule or an assumption. Does the age and/or climate have anything to do with the ratio? remember from the initial ainwood post....

World Size: Standard, Pangaea, 70% Ocean, 5 Billion Years.
Climate: Temperate, wet.

 

[Xevious]

While this is a pangea map, it is also Monarch and hence I don't think a turn or two of movement will kill us. While worker N, settler NW seems to be a good idea, I'm thinking that if worker N doesn't reveal anything, then settler W might be a better move. Since we will probably chop the forest first anyway, we can still move the settler while the worker is chopping, and a move west uncovers even more tiles around the start area. If the settler didn't find anything worth pursuing, I would suggest moving the settler N (or 2NW of the original start position). This rids us of all the visible jungle tiles, potentially gives us more usable river tiles, and keeps us on the river next to game. It should also greatly increase our chances of finding BG tiles.

 

[Redbad]

Is the 1 in 3 grasslands are bonus a hard set rule or an assumption. Does the age and/or climate have anything to do with the ratio? remember from the initial ainwood post....

Hmmm, I did some quick counting in the latest COTM. The grass tiles on the starting continent which were not covered by forest or jungle at 1766AD, numbered some 362 tiles. The number of bonusgrass were some 108. Though not a very scientific conclusion, Gato could well be right.
With regard to the climate: I'd say that will have an impact on the number of grassland rather than on the relative number of bonusgrass.

 

[Randy]

Do you think the tiles to the south are jungle? They look like forest to me. I may be wrong, as my wife will say more over then not.

 

[bio_hazard]

Total newbie here- just registered. Thought i might give this one a go since its Monarch and not a huge map (so i might actually get something else accomplished this month besides civ!) Not sure yet if I'll try open or not- i've done ok on a couple of monarch games in the past but early warmongering is not my strongsuit and I don't usually play pangaea...

A couple of questions-
What happens if the settler goes N and settles ON the game? I know the forest clears, but do you still get the terrain bonus from the game? I seem to remember skimming an old thread about luxuries and not wanting to settle on them since you couldn't strategically disconnect them (implying that they were otherwise intact).

I'm playing mac, and just installed the 1.29b2 update. I'm sure you guys are sick of having to answer this every month, but what's the next step once the save becomes available?

Thanks!

 

[Redbad]

@Tubby Rower
Washington is a city of southern efficiency and northern charm.

Completely off topic:
Me, having sometimes difficulty understanding US-americans: would you say Kennedy's remark was intended seriously or ironicly ?

 

[Redbad]

Do you think the tiles to the south are jungle? They look like forest to me. I may be wrong, as my wife will say more over then not.

As far as I know sn00py's terrain grafic and judging the relative position to the equator: I'm almost certain they are jungle.