GOTM 39 Pre-Game Discussion:

[Roland Deschain]

that shows how many food/shields does the base tile produce. green thingy is food and the blue thingy (there are no blue thingies in picture) tells you how much shields does the tile produce. You have option in preferences to switch this type of view on off.

Okiedokie. Thanks. I'm an idiot

 

[Tone]

My initial build looks to be two scouts and a granary unless I find a high food site nearby.

I thought only expansionist civs could build scouts. Or is that changed for GOTMs? Or do you mean warriors that will be used as scouts? Or am I once again completely confused?

Scouting warriors (The only other alternative is that ControlFreak is the one that is confused!) There are some minor changes to the standard rules, so visit the game announcement pages sometime soon, but nothing is hidden.

@Roland D: Not an idiot; just using this site to learn and improve, just like the rest of us. For every person that asks a 'stupid' question, you can be sure that there are ten others thanking you for asking it!

 

[Redbad]

There are quit a few posts from new civvers in this thread. I think that is a very good start for the new year

 

[solenoozerec]

There are quit a few posts from new civvers in this thread. I think that is a very good start for the new year

That is because difficulty level curve is on its way down. IMHO it is good as it means not only more participants, but also less time per game, therefore a chance to play both GOTMs and COTMs without a severe impact on RL.

 

[Redbad]

Anyone else playing the Conquest version?
How would your initial strategy change with an extra worker, scout and 50g?
The forest will chop faster, and the squares will get improved faster. The unit pump will be up faster. The gold will allow faster research for the first techs. The scout can go walk-about to see our neighborhood sooner and meet our new friends sooner.

Firstly: you've summed up most important differences yourself.
Won't be playing conquest version myself, but hmmm

Maybe scout a few turns to see if there is really no better place to settle nearby. The faster rate of improving the land will easely compensate for the lost turns.

Won't build two warriors at start, because: you have already a scout, the chop will partially be wasted on a warrior and the second warrior will cost you upkeep. So maybe an archer or two. The second archer needs 1 gold upkeep too, but the upkeep can earned back by hunting barbcamps.

Most possibly a settler before a granary: seconds city prevents upkeep for another 4 units and it gives the two workers more usefull things to do.

Building a setller before a granary, the scout and two archers making contact, I don't think I'll research pottery first but do an max on iron working.

 

[ControlFreak]

My initial build looks to be two scouts and a granary unless I find a high food site nearby.

I thought only expansionist civs could build scouts. Or is that changed for GOTMs? Or do you mean warriors that will be used as scouts? Or am I once again completely confused?

Scouting warriors (The only other alternative is that ControlFreak is the one that is confused!)

I'm not confused. Just shortening my post a bit for a change.

@Redbad, I've been thinking about this "chopping the deer first at all costs". My few trial games, I found it took me forever to build a granary/settler/worker from the capital after I chopped the deer. (I used the editor to make a small map with the same visible tiles.) I think delaying the chop by ten turns actually makes my granary or first settler come out faster than chopping right away. The problem is sheild shortage. With terrain like this, 30 or 60 shields is a lot once you cut down the forest. Tell me your arguements for chopping first?

 

[Tone]

I'm not confused. Just shortening my post a bit for a change.

I didn't think that you were which is why it is in brackets.

@Redbad, I've been thinking about this "chopping the deer first at all costs". My few trial games, I found it took me forever to build a granary/settler/worker from the capital after I chopped the deer. (I used the editor to make a small map with the same visible tiles.) I think delaying the chop by ten turns actually makes my granary or first settler come out faster than chopping right away. The problem is sheild shortage. With terrain like this, 30 or 60 shields is a lot once you cut down the forest. Tell me your arguements for chopping first?

Although this is aimed at Redbad, perhaps I could be so bold as to step in with my reasoning as well. I have decided to go with Xevious' idea of moving the settler W if nothing interesting shows up from moving the worker onto the game. There must be some bgs around there somewhere and if it takes a couple of moves with my settler to get them in the city radius then so be it. Researching pottery @ max should enable the forest chop to go towards a granary prebuild after two scouting warriors have been built, or a settler if there are more food bonuses out there. Without bgs I'll be thinking twice about settling because, as you have already said, it is shield poor (although the forests can be used to boost production).

With bgs around the situation is different as a new citizen every five turns with the irrigated game can be used effectively to help with production (especially with the added two shield bonus on the turn of population growth). Did your trial not have any bgs in the outer 12 tile city radius?

 

[Tubby Rower]

@Tubby Rower
Washington is a city of southern efficiency and northern charm.

Completely off topic:
Me, having sometimes difficulty understanding US-americans: would you say Kennedy's remark was intended seriously or ironicly ?

In America, the southern (really southeastern) states are known for their hospitality and charm and being very slow at doing things. And the northern (again northeastern) states are known for being very fast-paced, and efficient, but the people are not very personable.

So I guess Kennedy's post was a little of both. Washington (where the majority of our government is located) is riddled with red-tape (slow acting and bureaucratic) and the people are not very nice (mostly lawmakers).

To everyone else that takes exception to this post, I was just explaining the quote to RedBad. I'm from the south myself and know that these are generalizations. I know nice people that are from the northeast and mean people from the south.

 

[ControlFreak]

Did your trial not have any bgs in the outer 12 tile city radius?

It did not. Based on some fog gazing, I had one forest in the W-NW. All other tiles were grass or jungle depending on what the fringe looked like. I didn't want to assume we were going to get a break.

Does anyone remember in the past (when Cracker was in charge) there was a GOTM that had a problem with all grasslands under the forests/jungles were non BG? He said it was a problem with the map editor. Is it possible the whole map is generated without BG?

 

[WillowBrook]

I'm also concerned about the lack of bonus grass. I think I'm going to gamble on the spot NW of the start as a good one, sight unseen, and mine/road the starting spot before moving the worker to the deer. I'm not sure if I'll build two or three warriors before the granary (I'll have to do more detailed calcs), but I should have the granary with the forest chop before growing to size 4 (assuming I have pottery). And I'll hope for another food bonus....

(Plans subject to change without notice.)

 

[nikof]

Predator Class Equalisers:
...AI Unit support increased to emperor level.

This may be a case of "if you have to ask," but what does this mean?

 

[ControlFreak]

Go to release screen of one of the GOTMs (e.g. GOTM38) and click on the difficulty link. It explains unit bonuses there.

 

[AlanH]

So I guess Kennedy's post was a little of both.

Am I missing something? Where is "Kennedy's post"? And should I be concerned, as a moderator, about an apparent attempt to stir up the American Civil War ?

 

[Tubby Rower]

Am I missing something? Where is "Kennedy's post"? And should I be concerned, as a moderator, about an apparent attempt to stir up the American Civil War ?

No civil war here. That's not supported in Civ3 . I meant to say Kennedy's quote...it's in my sig.

 

[Redbad]

@Redbad, Tell me your arguements for chopping first?

When I said "Imho there is really no alternative for irrigating the chopped game" it is meant strategicly. Replacing the forest by irrigation transforms 2 shields into 2 food. I think we both agree that the extra food should be valued higher.

What I did not necessarly meant was to say that one should always do the chopping/irrigating as the first action. Though I admit it very looks that way in my posts . It's quite possible that in this situation it's better to mine first.


I'am at work right now so I have to do some calc on paper.
In favour of mining first: some 36 extra shields and some 7 extra gold.
In favour of chopping first: some 22 extra food.
When building a granary first you convinced me, when building a settler first I think I stick to chopping first.

But how can I choose between the 2 in turn 2

 

[Redbad]

@Tubby
Thanks for the explanation. It sounds like the kind of (generalized) differences between north and south on this side of the big pond too.

@AlanH
@Redbad: don't go off topic, don't go off topic, don't ...

 

[ControlFreak]

When building a granary first you convinced me, when buiding a settler first I think I stick to chopping first.

Same conclusion I came to. Problem is you need to know which you're going for before you make your first worker move.

I've decided to either:

1. Settle in place first and then move the worker per comments above or
2. Move Settler NW, worker E. Found in 3950 and move worker based on comments above, starting 1 turn later

Typically, I'm adverse to move the settler unless I know the terrain already. We'll see tomorrow...I'm soo excited!

 

[nikof]

Go to release screen of one of the GOTMs (e.g. GOTM38) and click on the difficulty link. It explains unit bonuses there.

I understand the bonus units an AI is gifted when it builds its first city. I was confused by the reference to "unit support," which I thought usually referred to the number of military units a town/city/metro can support before having to pay upkeep for them.

 

[klarius]

I understand the bonus units an AI is gifted when it builds its first city. I was confused by the reference to "unit support," which I thought usually referred to the number of military units a town/city/metro can support before having to pay upkeep for them.

You're right.
The AI gets an extra unit w/o support per city on monarch versus 2 in emperor. In addition there are 4 versus 8 for the whole civ.
But this is really not very important, even the support free units in monarch are already plenty, through most of the game. So that's why it got probably forgotten on the difficulty page.

 

[Wanderer]

so ... release time is based on what time zone? How much longer ....