GOTM #9 *Spoilers* Thread

[Zachriel]

Originally posted by Ribannah
Stopped playing in 750 AD, so I could install the new patch.
Egypt was already far, far ahead of the competition but I could not see me finish the game in time.

I noticed this game seemed to take a lot longer than normal. First, being archipelago, techs were slow. Later, I played a very complex attack strategy against Japan hinging on pikemen that took quite a while to prepare and execute. Then I paused an entire day to decide if I should attempt an attack on the Persian mainland. Finally, I didn't get an early standard culture win, so I went for a city culture victory playing until 2000AD, much later than I usually do.

There's still a few days left. Maybe you can still finish.

Game of the Month
http://www.zachriel.com/gotm.htm

 

[Txurce]

Egypt entered the Modern Age in 1375 and, despite having only around 20 cities and no modern strategic resources except for one offshore oil, was the tech leader when its Golden Age expired in 1400. A few decades later, I colonized some uranium on a northern isle, only to have it exhaust shortly after. As a result, I traded for rubber, uranium and aluminum throughout the modern age.

Persia reached the Modern Age after me, but pulled ahead with its free tech. I then tried to research my own branches, and trade the tech with Persia and sometimes Japan. This kept me almost even, partly due to the wars that Persia and America fought against Japan and Germany. While the only loser in the war was Germany, who lost all its offshore holdings to Persia, I was the true beneficiary, in that Persia researched not only Recycling, but Advanced Flight and Stealth as well. This slowed them down just enough that I was able to launch in 1690, two turns after trading them for Superconductor.

Check out what I paid for my last tech!

 

[Hurricane]

Nice. But of course, it was worth even more than that.

 

[Txurce]

Yeah, even paying as much as I did, it feels a little like an exploit, in that they shouldn't have sold it to me under any circumstances.

 

[MadScot]

Well, finally I get dragged into a war.

I've been living a peacable existence since about 1100AD, happily building and colonising whenever the AIs are at war, razing their cities for me!

Now in mid 19th century, with Japan #1, Persia #2, me third, Americans 4th. The Germans just got wiped out by Persia and America, but I managed to grab the German silks and coal

Then Xerxes pops up and demands uranium as a tribute. Does he think I'm some kind of moron? No way.

Now we're at war. The Persians had already attacked the Americans, and I had an MPP with Japan. So now it's everyone vs. Persia.

The Persians ambushed a huge amount of my ships and subs in their initial attack. In future I'll keep them all in port I think. I'd love to know how his ironclad hunted down my sub.

I was forced in communism in 2 turns of being attacked by the way - I went from an empire of WLTQD in virtually every city to riots due the war virtually immediatelly. And I have NO units in enemy territory yet. As has been complained about before, this is rather a pain. If Egypt wasn't religious it'd be a crippler.

Fpr disrupting my democratic peace the Persians are going to die. That tac nuke looks awful tempting right now! (If they don't have uranium, then they don't have nukes hehehe)

 

[Txurce]

Madscot, I've never been forced out of democracy in two turns in a war I didn't start - it's minimum of 20, with some luxury slider increases on the way. It doesn't sound like you were on thin ice, since you had WLTQD. I wonder what it is that makes some democracies wilt faster than others?

 

[ainwood]

Generally it happens faster when the people are already unhappy as a result of a previous war - although 1100 AD right through to 1800's is quite a long time....

It may have been caused by the immediate losses in the war that he referred to.

 

[Cartouche Bee]

You must have had alot of your units in the AI's territory to cause war weariness that quick after a long spell of war or you had alot of their citizens living in your cities.

 

[MadScot]

Units in Persia Territory - none.

Persians living in my territory - about 2 (I had captured one city, which they had taken from the US previously)

Units not in home territory - quite a few - ships at sea, units in US (ROP in effect) or neutral tiles.

I really don't see why my citizens were so worked up. They have abused their right to democratic expression now, though, and will not be trusted again!

And the war had gone maybe 2 or 3 turns. I had lost two cities (and gained one). One of the two had a luxury, which I then lost. Perhaps that was it. But some of the cities went from all happy to more than half unhappy.

 

[Cartouche Bee]

Well I guessed wrong.

I know that at this level war weariness can be frustrating but that just seems ridiculous. Wish I could offer some better insight. I know I fought alot of these types of problems also but at least with a religious civ you can go down to republic and that helps quite alot. If your close to being able to negotiate peace again, bumping up luxuries temporarily can save you the trip to republic.

 

[Txurce]

Losing the luxuries could have done it, I guess.

 

[Lawrence]

In this game, once I declared war with Japan without any troops in their territory and any of their troops in my territory and I didn't do anything other than declare war and my happiness drops from 90 to 66 due to war weariness exactly at that turn!

I have a lot of Japanese nationals in my cities, I guess that's the problem.

Fortunately the war was only a clean-up job and it ended in 2 turns with Japan's destruction.

 

[Scientia]

Okay, I can admit defeat on this month's GOTM, but I have a couple of concerns about the circumstances leading to my loss.

Persia was at war continuously, mostly versus everyone else, since the 1500's. They have been in communism for all of that time. In 1898 they land some troops on two of my continents. I have an ROP with them and am at peace with everyone with Democracy for my government. I am in the middle of researching space race (about 3 turns left), and from the diplomacy screen, it appears that I am about 3 techs behind (Fission, ecology, Space Race)

Anticipating a sneak attack, I sign an MPP with Japan, who is currently at War with America and Germany. My suspicions are confirmed the next turn at Persia attacks, violating the ROP that still had 10 turns left. I'm not too concerned about the stack of tanks and mech inf they have on two of my continents as I quickly whittle both stacks to nothing using my own defensive forces.

There's one advantage to this War at least - I've been saving some Chariots hoping to start a GA. Saving one Persian tank with 1 HP left, I sacrifice 3 chariots in a counter-attack, but am rewarded with the GA I'm hoping for. The year is now 1900.

Production and comerce in my cities increases dramatically. Rather than launch counter-offensives, I take advantage of the GA in the hopes of closing the tech gap, and spring-boarding me towards a space race victory. I'm researching techs in 5 to 6 turns, and keeping an eye on my war weariness so that I can bump up luxeries if need be. I let Japan run defense for me.

By the end of my GA (and the WAR) I had space race, satellites, super conductor, and Fission, and am thinking that I can only be (at most) 1 or 2 techs behind. The whole world is at WAR, and eveyone is in communism but me. By the end of my war with Persia, I had luxeries set at 30 percent and science at 40 percent.

When I finally get peace with Persia (Japan sued for peace 1 turn before the end of our MPP), I see in the diplomacy screen that they now have miniaturization, synthetic fibers, recycling, and nuclear power. A quick glance at the space race screen shows they have 5 modules built and 3 more on the way.

I am thinking to myself that they must be researching lasers, but surely this will take them awhile under communism, but I'm also wondering how they managed to out-tech me during the war when they were fighting against everyone else.

I also notice that they don't have rubber, and as far back as I can remember, they have lacked this resource. I breathe a little easier thinking that I can still crank out the tech in enough time to give them a good run for the space race.

From here on out, I check the diplomacy screen every turn, checking to see if they have secured rubber to build the outer casing, which is one of the most expensive pieces to build.

For the remainder of the game they NEVER have rubber (it always shows up as a resource they wich to trade for).

In 1946 they have 6 (3) on the space race screen. Still no rubber. A few turns later, the screen shows 7 (3).

I'm stumped. How could the Persians possibly have started the exterior casing without a supply of rubber? I must have missed something, perhaps they captured a city with a rubber resource for 1 turn, and then immediately lost it, but had it long enough to start the module. I consider this unlikely, though because they were at WAR with everyone for pretty much the remainder of the game, and unless they had a trade route back to the mainland I don't see how they could have accomplished this. Perhaps they captured a city with rubber, got a GL and rushed the exterior casing, I don't know.

Again, I wonder how Persia out paces me in tech research when I am in Democracy and a Golden Age and they are in Communism and at war with everyone, and how they manage to build the one space module that requries rubber when they have been without for the entire modern age?

 

[MadScot]

I think the thing that frustrates about WW (and CF too, but not so much) is that the mechanism is 'hidden'. So I don't know what I did wrong, except in very generic/useless terms. And I really don't see that WW sets in even in democracies THAT quickly. In fact, it seems to me that governments seem to have given up long before their people did in many cases. But I digress....

back OT, the persian menace appears to be being contained After they invaded that nice little island SW of Egypt, SE of Persia, a vicious tussle has been raging for one of my cities, which has Aluminium (my only supply) and Rubber and Uranium (neither of which Persia has access to). They took almost all the island (razing three of my cities ) but our retaliation force landed the next turn and 4 vet MA, 4 vet MI made mincemeat of the assorted tanks, infantry and longbowmen(!) . They tried to land and retake the city but we wiped out their beachhead.

Our Navy has now regrouped after the initial dastardly Persian attack and the CVBG is now hunting Persian BBs. They have Magellan's Voyage, so they can outrun us - even when we have bombed them into a barely-floating hulk . They can run, but they can't hide. I haven't seen a Persia CV yet, only BBs. I guess they haven't worked out naval airpower yet Perhaps the current demonstration will open their eyes

 

[MadScot]

Originally posted by Lawrence
In this game, once I declared war with Japan without any troops in their territory and any of their troops in my territory and I didn't do anything other than declare war and my happiness drops from 90 to 66 due to war weariness exactly at that turn!

Lawrence - which screen is the happiness % on - I'd love to check what happened in my war weariness thing. Is it the first line of F11 - I always thought that was the other CIVs approval of my Civ.

 

[MadScot]

Woe is Egypt!

The conniving Japanese launched a spaceship while I was busy chasing the Persian navy from the seas! 1904AD. 3664 points - not quite the most I've ever had, but close.

Entertaining - the first time I'd played an Emperor game - I guess I should have placed spies to keep tabs on my allies. But I get sick of them starting wars - they never seem to be that effective. I guess you need the extra info on the Ais at this level.

 

[Lawrence]

Originally posted by MadScot


Lawrence - which screen is the happiness % on - I'd love to check what happened in my war weariness thing. Is it the first line of F11 - I always thought that was the other CIVs approval of my Civ.

Yes it is.

 

[Hurricane]

Finally finished my game, winning by domination. Persia was tough, sending a 50-100 infantry stack of death towards my cities. It took me about 5 rounds to take it out.

After that everything went quickly. Just after I finished Persia I discovered Synthetic Fibres and upgraded all my tanks to MA. Taking over Germany only took one turn, and that triggered the domination limit. My score was 7306 and the year 1826. The map shows the situation in 1826:

 

[Phillip_martin]

Originally posted by Scientia
Okay, I can admit defeat on this month's GOTM, but I have a couple of concerns about the circumstances leading to my loss.

Thanks for submitting. As the GOTM is more than just winning we can learn from your pain.

When I finally get peace with Persia (Japan sued for peace 1 turn before the end of our MPP), I see in the diplomacy screen that they now have miniaturization, synthetic fibers, recycling, and nuclear power. A quick glance at the space race screen shows they have 5 modules built and 3 more on the way.[/B]

Potentially if Persia gained required techs and rubber as part of peace agreements they could have started the casing. Then if MPPs were still in place war took the rubber away again.

I hope for the game's sake it is not a 'feature', which leads me to a question. Did you complete your game under 1.21 or changed to 1.29? Call me crazy but....

 

[Phillip_martin]

Well I had wondered if I could finish this month in time, and did.

After attempting a tech race with Japan to enable me to seize their land, they alway managed to get the next level of units before I could manouver into place.

The upside was that I was never a pushover and found that since a skirmish with Japan around 100AD, I was a model nation.

So with an impeccable reputation (except with Japan who always hated me) I went for the UN

Xerxes votes for Cleopatra
Bismark votes for Cleopatra
Lincon votes for Lincon
Tokugawa abstains

[dance]

Peace can work......