GOTM128 France - First Spoiler - All Contacts

mad-bax

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PTW GOTM128 France- First Spoiler - All contacts

This is the first of two spoilers that will be posted for this game.
To qualify to read and post in this thread you must have made contact with all the opposing tribes.

Please do not post maps - or even mini-maps of overseas lands. Let us confine ourselves to the local surrounds.

Let us know how you got on, and how you overcame any challenges set in your path to supremacy.
 
Moved settler south and set up a 4-turn settler factory. Filled this island and planted a couple of towns on the island to the north which sucked up most of the barbarians and all of my gold. Switched to Map Making to rapidly get some exploring galleys out there.

Galleys sent in all directions and all sank. Filled top island with towns and made a bee-line to Navigation. Caravel made contact to the west, just a turn before the one headed east. The two heading northeast and northwest were still searching.

Met everyone except for the two that had already been eliminated, obtained tech parity.
 
I started a prebuild for The Great Lighthouse when I saw that we were on an island: I joined two workers to a town next to a golden mountain and bonus grasslands next to river, and got away with 10% luxuries (2 gold) to keep that 6 pop city happy. I moved the capital early to the center and made a 4-ring and a 7-ring outside of it. I have two settler/worker factories. With my ring placement, unfortunately no one of them has had 5 excess food, only 4, but I'm switching to Republic soon to go for Navigation.

I found the promised land at 290 BC and the other small one the turn after, just like Racinante. I've filled the northern island with 13 towns building Settlers, and I have 29 Workers waiting to join my cities to pop 12 when Anarchy is over.

Commercial, Industrious and RCP is nice; I can't wait to build an enourmous ring on the pangea. I've lost 6-7 galleys with spearman-settler in, but one just made it over! With two more spearmen and a wall, I can start war and hopefully make a leader soon for Forbidden Palace.

I have about 15 archers, spearmen and swordmen that I'll try to send to the other side. No need to protect yourself on this island, and every coin counts in the hunt for Navigation.
 
Worker SE, settler S as planned. Good move, as there's a 4-turner right there. Paris is settled, Pottery at max. As it's necessary to chop some wood, the best use of the shields is to train a warrior first, then go for the granary, and so i do.

The warrior goes exploring E, sees the coast, then proceeds north and circles around Paris. First hut gives Bronze Working, second hut gives a settler. Orleans is founded Nx2-NW of Paris, and successive cities are placed at RCP 4, clearly the best settling option at this point.

Pretty soon i figure out the Gilligan start and take appropriate measures. Max research up to Map Making, prebuild for Great Lighthouse on a productive core city and, later on, 3 galley prebuilds around to start exploring ASAP. Then i realize that the city of Rheims, placed NEx4 from Paris, with both very productive tiles and a golden mountain in range, could benefit of the Colossus, and i say to myself: why not trying? Therefore, Rheims turns to Colossus and Lyons (Ex2-NE) turns to Great Lighthouse. The fallback plain, in case i'm beaten with the Colossus, is to have Rheims reverting to Great Lighthouse and Lyons turning to a Hanging Gardens prebuild, for Golden Age purposes.

Meanwhile, Orleans is using a second prebuild for the Forbidden Palace, in light of my long-term goal which is to relocate the capital somewhere in the Pangea and build a RCP 5+7 around it. Once done that, Orleans will be surrounded by 6 cities at rank zero (RCP<5), two cities at RCP=5 and one at RCP=7, making the whole Gilligan Island tremendously powerful, in terms of both production and money.

In 1625 BC, Map Making is complete and i start exploring the coastline. Little Gilligan is soon discovered and by 1400 BC i have my first oversea colony. Two harbors are being built to connect luxury 2 and have some relief from unhappiness.

In 1175 BC Rheims completes the Colossus and 2 turns later Orleans completes the Forbidden Palace. The money bonus and the reduction in corruption allow me to shave off a handful of turns toward Republic.

The 1000 BC mark is met with encouraging stats:
15 towns, 39 pop units;
8 workers, 16 warriors, 1 spear, 9 galleys,
granary in Paris, FP in Orleans, Colossus in Rheims
5 turns to Republic, and a lot of techs missing :)

attachment.php



Eventually, i decide to delay Republic 1 turn, in order to have a settler and a harbor completed before the revolt. The research is completed in 850 BC, i revolt immediately, get 6 turns of anarchy and reroll for 1 turn :D

In 800 BC France is a Republic. In the same date the settling phase is complete. There's still an open spot on the northern tip of Little Gilligan and another town would fit there nicely, but a barb encampment is present and i decide to leave it there undisturbed until someone makes to the Middle Ages and triggers an uprising. Some units will await there and defend against the horde of horsemen, with the goal of getting a few elite promotions.

In 690 BC the Great Lighthouse is complete and i send my already respectable fleet of galleys around to explore the sea tiles. Alas, nothing of interest is found. France goes on alone for a little while more. I've been researching Iron Working, Literature and Math, connecting the two islands with harbors, built a pair libraries and started others. Paris and Orleans have reached city status. Orleans is using the Great Library as a prebuild for the Hanging Gardens.

Finally, two fleets are assembled on the opposite tips of Little Gilligan, roughtly at the equator level. A grand total of 12 suicide galleys are sent into blue waters all at once. Half of them didn't make it, but the rest survived long enough to reach safe waters in 450 BC. After the trade round i've collected all contacts, all maps, knowledge of a bunch of new techs and a few hundred golds in French coffers.

Here are some logs:


Techs:

4000bc: Masonry, Writing (prerequisites)
3550bc: Bronze Working (hut);
3200bc: Pottery (research);
2230bc: Writing (research);
1625bc: Map Making (research);
1400bc: Code of Laws (research);
1275bc: Philosophy (research)
_850bc: Republic (research)
_730bc: Iron Working (research);
_630bc: Literature (research);
_550bc: Mathematics (research);
_450bc: War Code, Wheel, Ceremonial Burial (trade, China); Mysticism (trade, India); Horse Riding (trade, Japan);


Cities:

3950bc: Paris
3300bc: Orleans
2630bc: Lyons
2430bc: Rheyms
2230bc: Tours

2030bc: Marseilles
1870bc: Chartres
1700bc: Avignon
1675bc: Besancon (gems)
1600bc: Rouen

1400bc: Grenoble (first oversea colony)
1300bc: Dijon
1200bc: Amiens
1100bc: Cherbourg
1000bc: Poitiers (incense)

_900bc: Toulouse
_800bc: Bayonne


Meetings:

_450bc: everybody
 

Attachments

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you got a settler and 1-turn anarchy? that is luck added to very good playing!

what is the use of having your galleys start all together for their journey? afaik, this does not at all change the individual risk of any galley to sink...

t_x
 
@ mad-bax: are you aware that there is a long XOTM tradition of replacing the settler option from huts with workers so to not cause a too imbalanced start Situation from popping a settler?
t_x
 
@ mad-bax: are you aware that there is a long XOTM tradition of replacing the settler option from huts with workers so to not cause a too imbalanced start Situation from popping a settler?
t_x

Yes, I'm aware of the discussion, but not of the execution. The PTW scenario file (from GOTM42) was given to me by the staff and I have not altered it - you get settlers from huts. The only changes I make are to Civ colours to make them contrast with neighbours, civ build preferences - for balance, and sometimes give an additional starting tech for isolated civs, again for balance. The core scenario I leave alone. I am competent with modding scenarios however, and developed a fairly complex mod for the SGOTM series which included the worker-from-hut change.

At the risk of sounding repetitive, I have noticed a number of "oddities" with the scenario file and tried to start a debate around whether we should make changes or adopt a new scenario altogether. There was minimal interest.

I can't go changing stuff on a whim, or in reaction to a single post. I am not the boss here. I am effectively an employee of the community, and the community needs to instruct me in these matters.
 
then maybe some more players should speak up on this. i was absolutely sure that in the XOTM games it was impossible to ever get a settler from a hut (towns yes though!). instead of the settler you got a worker.

since i played many more COTMs than GOTMs, there may be a difference, but i did not think there was. for sure i never got a settler (and hardly ever a worker) from a hut.

i found that was an absolutely great solution, as an ultra-early settler for one player makes a huge change and seems to imbalanced to me.

t_x
 
COTM is also out-of-the-box and you can get settlers from huts. COTM does not use a modded game by default. I have currently designed and uploaded to the server, games up to GOTM130.

Why don't you start a poll? If there is a reaction then I'll mod the base scenario's for both games. I am even prepared to re-cut the games I've already created.

I am also not going to take a side I should point out. I can see both points of view.
 
Più Freddo;12837747 said:
We definitely had Workers from Huts in all GOTM and COTM games for a long time.

You have stated this as if it is fact. To support this assertion, all you need do is provide a link to a G/COTM game where someone reports popping a worker, or provide a save game from a G/COTM which is based on a scenario which has this feature. At that point you will be right and I will be wrong and you can berate me to your hearts content.

Currently I have the scenario file from GOTM42 which I am assured by the current GOTM staff is the scenario file that has been used to base all subsequent games on and this (quite clearly) does not support workers from huts. I am also assured by the staff that Conquests games have been based on the default bix file.

As I have said, I am aware of the discussion taking place for more than a decade, but I have not seen a single piece of evidence that this has ever been implemented.

Also, I repeat once more, and for the last time actually, that I can implement this modification, and am happy to do so if that is what the community wants. I am not going to run around trying to garner that support - because I have no ownership of this issue. If you want it changed - get half a dozen of the regular players to support it and I'll implement it.

I'm not being difficult. I'm just trying to be neutral and act on behalf of the entire community.
 
The same start as tR1cKy: Settler SE, Worker S, research Pottery,
build Warrior and Granary, the latter aided by chopping the Games
Forest the very last turn. Granary ready in 3150 BC, factory builds
Settler, Worker, Worker and then four-turn Settlers.

3950 BC Found Paris
2850 BC Found Orleans
2470 BC Found Lyons
2390 BC Found Rheims
2190 BC Found Tours
2030 BC Found Marseilles Forbidden Palace city
1870 BC Found Chartres
1870 BC Connect Gems using a Colony
1700 BC Found Avignon
1675 BC Found Besancon
1550 BC Found Rouen
1525 BC Found Grenoble
1475 BC Found Dijon
1275 BC Found Amiens
1250 BC Found Cherbourg
1075 BC Found Poitiers
_825 BC Found Toulouse on Barbarian Island
_650 BC Found Bayonne
_570 BC Connect Incense​

I placed the cities at RCP3, sort of, with plans to jump the palace
and leave the Forbidden Palace. Not such a slick plan as tR1cKy,
though. No such luck with the Huts, either:

3550 BC Pop Hut Warrior: Technology
3350 BC Pop Hut Warrior: Warrior
1050 BC Pop Hut Spearman: Barbarians
_670 BC Pop Hut Spearman: Maps​

I got Bronze Working from a Hut and researched towards The Republic
until I met the competition:

4000 BC Discover Masonry
4000 BC Discover Alphabet
3550 BC Learn Bronze Working
3200 BC Discover Pottery
2150 BC Discover Writing
1600 BC Discover Map Making
1450 BC Discover Philosophy
1000 BC Learn Warrior Code
1000 BC Learn The Wheel
1000 BC Learn Mysticism
1000 BC Learn Mathematics
1000 BC Learn Iron Working
1000 BC Learn Horseback Riding
1000 BC Learn Ceremonial Burial
_825 BC Discover The Republic
_690 BC Discover Literature
_650 BC Learn Construction
_570 BC Discover Currency
_570 BC Learn Monotheism
_570 BC Learn Feudalism
_570 BC Learn Engineering​

A suicide Galley made it across in 1000 BC. I made War or Peace Treaties
bound to Military Alliances with all non-scientific tribes.

1000 BC War Scandinavia
1000 BC Meet Scandinavia
1000 BC Meet Russia
1000 BC Meet Rome
1000 BC Meet Japan
1000 BC Meet Germany
1000 BC Meet England
1000 BC Meet Celts
1000 BC Meet Carthage
1000 BC Meet Babylon
1000 BC Embassy Scandinavia
1000 BC Embassy Rome
1000 BC Embassy Japan
1000 BC Embassy England
1000 BC Embassy Celts
1000 BC War Celts
1000 BC PT/A Rome v. Scandinavia
1000 BC PT/A England v. Celts
_925 BC Meet India
_925 BC Meet China
_825 BC Establish Anarchy
_800 BC War Carthage
_800 BC PT/A Japan v. Carthage
_800 BC Establish Republic
_800 BC Embassy India
_800 BC Embassy Carthage
_775 BC War China
_775 BC PT/A India v. China
_775 BC Embassy China
_730 BC Build Forbidden Palace
_710 BC Embassy Russia
_670 BC Build The Great Lighthouse
_650 BC War Rome War Happiness!
_650 BC PT/A Scandinavia v. Rome
_570 BC War Babylon
_570 BC PT/A Germany v. Babylon
_570 BC Enter Middle Ages
_570 BC Embassy Germany​
 
15 Towns, 45 pop units;
9 Workers, 7 Warriors, 2 Spearmen, 3 Galleys,
2 Granaries in Paris and Lyons, 12 turns from FP in Marseilles, 16 turns from The Great Lighthouse in Rheims
2 Barracks, 1 Harbor
7 turns to Republic, missing Polytheism, C&C, Literature and the Governments
1 Tribe unmet
5 Embassies
 
I am also pretty sure we usually got workers.

You have stated this as if it is fact. To support this assertion, all you need do is provide a link to a G/COTM game where someone reports popping a worker, or provide a save game from a G/COTM which is based on a scenario which has this feature. At that point you will be right and I will be wrong and you can berate me to your hearts content.

GOTM 78:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=6783710&postcount=3
 
OK TheHaze thanks. In fairness that particular game doesn't use the standard PTW mod.

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/games/index.php?month=078

However, clearly the worker-from-hut mod has been used in GOTM, and quite a few of you have posted supporting it's use. Therefore I will make this change. It will take some time as it requires some due diligence to ensure I do it properly for all difficulty levels etc. and the next 3 games are already on the server. I can't promise I'll have it done for GOTM129, but COTM101 should be OK.
 
OK TheHaze thanks. In fairness that particular game doesn't use the standard PTW mod.

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/games/index.php?month=078

However, clearly the worker-from-hut mod has been used in GOTM, and quite a few of you have posted supporting it's use. Therefore I will make this change. It will take some time as it requires some due diligence to ensure I do it properly for all difficulty levels etc. and the next 3 games are already on the server. I can't promise I'll have it done for GOTM129, but COTM101 should be OK.

If you do this for COTM101, could we please have a fair start instead of a start filled with multiple handicaps like in the past two GOTM? And by fair I mean in between the best start ever and the worst start ever.
 
If you do this for COTM101, could we please have a fair start instead of a start filled with multiple handicaps like in the past two GOTM? And by fair I mean in between the best start ever and the worst start ever.

As stated elsewhere, games will start to become easier relative to their nominal difficulty level. I am not going to change any of the designed games other than mod the settler from hut event.
 
could we please have a fair start

Since we all play the same game, it always has a fair start.

I'm very happy and grateful that mad-bax has taken on the task to create games for us. He must do it like he finds fit. It's good that he does in in a different way than civ_steve and all the other modders did before him.

Mad-bax, keep up the good work!
 
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