Gotm20-Spain CONQUEST Bonus Pregame

[hotrod0823]

I think an instant fortress maybe the best bet. Getting early pike equivalent defenders at no cost will allow early warriors to go out exploring rather than sticking around for MP duty. This will allow the lux slider to be sit still for at least a few turns. Although my experience at deity is limited, happiness is always an issue, as is commerce. Wasting commerce on lux early may make a difference when it comes time to buy a few techs early on.

The other thing that is important to remember is the extra worker and settler. The worker alone is worth a lot (try buying 1 in PTW )and I can't even put a value on the extra settler, people would kill for a settler from a hut, getting one at the start is big advantage.

Good luck to all that play the conquest game! Should be an interesting comparison.

Hotrod

 

[King Of America]

Questions about the Galeass

Can it end its turn on a sea tile? On a ocean tile? Can it carry units?

 

[alamo]

Apparently it shows up in this month's GOTM, though I haven't seen it yet - a spoiler - doh!

So you can look at the unit if you have installed the GOTM package and are willing to use the editor.

I haven't actually tried the editor myself, so I can't say much more.

 

[denyd]

This might be a possible game for a OCC. You've got powerful cheap defensive units, a head start towards the Great Library (Alphabet) and can build a temple cheaply. If the starting location includes a nearby river and a luxury or two (maybe even some coastline), the odds get better. And the growth of disbanding the second settler (it is OCC after all), would get a early pop boost.

If you managed to land another AA wonder and were able to trade an extra resource (or 2) for peace, a 20K win might be possible.

 

[Meisier]

I think that the fortress guys are a little too tough for 10. Make em cost 20 or have only defense of 2 and theyed be much better, although I think going to defense of 2 is best. Since the will not be able to move - but can fortify (I believe that is the case) they will have an effective defense of 2.7 (on grassland) in a world of 1 attack streagth barbs... it goes to just over 4 with a defense of 3.

I also don't like how a smart player will aquire bronze working at a later date just so new cities can cheep forts that need not be upgraded unitil gunpowder. I think it alters signifigantly HOW some-one SHOULD play the game in the early years, which is counter productive to using conquest as a training ground for going to the next level. (That isn't to say that I don't find this unit very interesting...). To somewhat counter this, perhaps it should upgrade to pikemen not spearmen?

 

[Smirk]

Meisier, you are missing the point. These are bonuses in this diety game to help where it might be needed most. If a person wants to play a defensive game it would be smart to avoid bronze for a little while, at least until their core cities are settled and have built a few fortresses.

And since this is a game to help people along and give them a slight advantage to ease them into playing a *diety* game, it would be wise if those people did play a defensive game. I see nothing wrong with avoiding Bronze for most of the age. In this case you have a better defender without Bronze, so there is no need for it. And unless you plan to go offensive with swords, Iron isn't needed either.

There is only one problem with this strategy, knowing where the iron is early enough to be sure to get some, and also to deny the enemy.

 

[AlanH]

Originally posted by denyd
This might be a possible game for a OCC.

Yes, I was thinking along similar lines after doing some research around the forums. Having tried a couple of practice starts in Deity as Indians (same traits as Spain) I found you don't get much time to expand anyway. The other civs just seem to gobble up the map. So makng a virtue out of necessity, I think I'll run a trial OCC game and see how it goes.

 

[DaveMcW]

Some of the OCC strategies (heavy trading, paying demands) are useful on deity. But you need an excellent start, a small map, and lots of skill to actually beat deity with an OCC.

 

[LeSphinx]

Conquest Class Players will begin Gotm20-Spain with the following bonuses:


one extra settler (so a total of two starting settlers)

one extra worker (so a total of two starting workers)

the ability to build immobile 1/3/1 defenders (see below)

three (3) chests of gold that can be used to purchase 10 shields each (see below)

50 extra gold units in their starting treasury

future build access to the Galleass at Gunpowder (see below)


I don't undestand how the calculation system will be, as some players (Conquest class players) will start with a huge advantage
where as open class player will not have any bonus.

Can we decide by ourself in which class we play.
In a deity level, why not playing in the CONQUEST class.
In a CONQUEST class, de we have the choice about the victory ?

I'm loocking forward to this new GOTM with new stuff!

LeSphinx

 

[cracker]

Originally posted by LeSphinx
I don't undestand how the calculation system will be, as some players (Conquest class players) will start with a huge advantage
where as open class player will not have any bonus.

There is no scoring bonus for players the PREDATOR class game; just a little bragging rights. There will be a scoring offset for playing the CONQUEST games and at this point in time we believe it will be a multiplier of 85%. The intent will be to encourage players to playe the Open Class game when they are ready.

Originally posted by LeSphinx
Can we decide by ourself in which class we play.
In a deity level, why not playing in the CONQUEST class.

Yes, you decide what intensity level is right for you, subject to the two restrictions: once you make it into the upper 50% of the rankings in any GOTM game then you cannot drop back to the conquest class game and receive a score. Also, the CONQUEST games will be carefully reviewed to detect players who really should not be playing at the reduced difficulty and CONQUEST games will not be eligible for the fastest and highest scoring victory medals that will be reserved for the Open and Predator Class games.

Originally posted by LeSphinx
In a CONQUEST class, de we have the choice about the victory ?

Yes, for this Gotm20 game CONQUEST players have free choice of what victory condition they choose to pursue. In future games, we may designate a preferred victory condition but even under those conditions you will still have the choice of pursuing alternate victory conditions.

 

[LeSphinx]

Ok, thanks for the precise details cracker.
As I finish 68/160 in GOTM18, I haven't got the choice: I have to play on Open Class at a deity level! Snif! Snif!
This would be my first Deity game as I haven't play GOTM14 Babylons in December as this month have a lot of holidays in France!

Deity, Deity , Deity, ....

LeSphinx

 

[FeelGood]

Originally posted by cracker

Yes, you decide what intensity level is right for you, subject to the two restrictions: once you make it into the upper 50% of the rankings in any GOTM game then you cannot drop back to the conquest class game and receive a score. Also, the CONQUEST games will be carefully reviewed to detect players who really should not be playing at the reduced difficulty and CONQUEST games will not be eligible for the fastest and highest scoring victory medals that will be reserved for the Open and Predator Class games.

What dou you mean by 50% or rankings... top 50 or 50% from all players?

I would only play conquest class game for deity game... Lower than that... It will be open or maybe predator.... It`s that ok....?

Thanks

 

[Txurce]

FeelGood, I think what cracker means is that if you have ever scored in the top half of any GOTM, then you should not be playing the "Conquest" game.

 

[Aeson]

I think it should be the top 50% and have submitted a winning game on the difficulty level as a cutoff. A lot of players do pretty well on lower difficulty levels (making the top 50%), but just don't have the experience of playing Deity to have much shot at winning. In GOTM14, only 12 out of 69 won their games, so those 12 (along with anyone who won GOTM07) would be the only ones restricted from playing the Conquest version.

 

[hotrod0823]

I guess that is to have players avoid sandbagging games just to play the "conquest" game but allowing the Warlord/Regent player be more competitive on the upper levels.

Edit: I haven't played a GOTM at the deity level except for the QSC14 but I think the intent of the top 50% to be disqualified because even if they don't win the game they will be competetive even at deity. The upper 50% have proven they can will at Monarch and/or Emperor and eventhough a win at Deity may not for certain their game will be competetive even if they are unaided or even a loss.

The lower 50%, who may or may not have won the Regent or Monarch game, will be able to compete albeit aided at the Deity level.

 

[cracker]

Feelgood,

Let us use you as an example because your player data is fairly illustrative of the point

In Gotm18-Celts you finished at #66 out of 160 positions so this puts you in the top 50% (position 80 or above). You were right exactly in betweeb BillChin and LKendter and in the same scoring group as numebr of other moderate to strong players.

In Gotm17-Carthage you were at #80 out of 162 and in Gotm16-Rome you wer at #70 out of 144 which in both cases was just barely into the top 50% but still commendable ine every case.


In Gotm15-Russia wor were at #51 out of 155 submissions which again was well above the 50% cutoff point.

We are not even close to compiling the Gotm19-Ottomans results yet, but you have already submitted a victory and you again will probably be in the top 50% of the results (I can't sya that for sure yet though).

I think you are not the player that the Conquest class game is targeted for. You have the skills to play well and be "in-the-game" on any difficulty level that you have tried so far and for you the real challenge is to extract those thingst hat you have been doing well and then focus on the key things that will let you play well in a game at deity level.

Look at this game as the opportunity that it really is and that is to measure where you are against the skill levels that will let you survive and/or have fun when the game is really dialed up to one of its most challenging settings.

Good luck in your Open or Predator Class game for Gotm20-Spain.

 

[Meisier]

Originally posted by Meisier
I think that the fortress guys are a little too tough for 10. Make em cost 20 or have only defense of 2 and theyed be much better, although I think going to defense of 2 is best. Since the will not be able to move - but can fortify (I believe that is the case) they will have an effective defense of 2.7 (on grassland) in a world of 1 attack streagth barbs... it goes to just over 4 with a defense of 3.

I also don't like how a smart player will aquire bronze working at a later date just so new cities can cheep forts that need not be upgraded unitil gunpowder. I think it alters signifigantly HOW some-one SHOULD play the game in the early years, which is counter productive to using conquest as a training ground for going to the next level. (That isn't to say that I don't find this unit very interesting...). To somewhat counter this, perhaps it should upgrade to pikemen not spearmen?

Originally posted by Smirk
Meisier, you are missing the point. These are bonuses in this diety game to help where it might be needed most. If a person wants to play a defensive game it would be smart to avoid bronze for a little while, at least until their core cities are settled and have built a few fortresses.

Below is the best two quotes i can get from the other thread about what the purpose of this class of GOTM. Please ask yourself if the difference in game play during ancient times that will be affected by this unit does not make comparison to other games somewhat pointless. I just don't think that with the way this unit is designed is in keeping with that purpose - aside from it being to powerful. My suggestion to make it upgradable to pikeman is quite differnnt from my complaint about it being to powerful, and was ment whooly to address this problem.

Originally posted by cracker
we will use other techniques to encourage players to rise to new challenges and conquer fundamental game play issues by comparing their games directly to the games of the experienced players.

The primary difference between the Open Class games and Conquest Class games, will be that the Conquest Class players will receive a map appropriate set of opening bonuses that will be designed to help them cross over an early strategic decision/performance threshold. These bonuses will allow Conquest Class players to more actively experience the challenges of the game while learning to compare their decisions to the decisions, techniques, and strategies of some of the more experienced players under similar game conditions.

- with it upgradable to Pikemen than how the game is played to play it optimaly would be much closer to the open games, and thus much more comparible.

 

[cracker]

Meiser,

I want to quash the side vector discussion that you are headed off on and encourage you to find the value in the bonuses as designed. Debating what the settings should be is not the purpose here and particularly not in advance of any participation where your can test your abilities against the concepts.

The upgrade path is for the defender unit is designed to make them obsolete in the game quickly. Building lots of early defenders early in the game may or not be a wise planning decision depending on your other strategic moves.

The purpose of this thread is not debate changes that you feel would be more appropriate to the bonus settings for the game. These settings are the settings for the game and now the decision becomes do you want to play this optional game level or the open class game and once you decide on the intensity level of play, "How can you use the bonuses that are defined to get you into the game and keep you into the game??"

 

[Ronald]

Originally posted by denyd
This might be a possible game for a OCC. You've got powerful cheap defensive units, a head start towards the Great Library (Alphabet) and can build a temple cheaply. If the starting location includes a nearby river and a luxury or two (maybe even some coastline), the odds get better. And the growth of disbanding the second settler (it is OCC after all), would get a early pop boost.

If you managed to land another AA wonder and were able to trade an extra resource (or 2) for peace, a 20K win might be possible.

I don't think a 20k OCC is possible on deity. By the time you could get a 20k OCC victory (around 1750 AD if you play extremely well with an excellent starting position) one of the AI's will already have launched their space ship. The only possible OCC win I think would be a diplomatic victory.

Ronald

 

[Smirk]

Originally posted by Ronald

I don't think a 20k OCC is possible on deity.

I may eventually attempt it, but one thing for sure is that it will take a lot of warmongering. The biggest problem would be to get some wonders. Getting leaders will help, but you'll also have to be razing cities left and right to prevent the other civs building them. I think with a militaristic civ on a small or medium pangea map it might be possible. However, I would certainly try 5CC first.