GOTM63 Spoiler

[Peaster]

20 decades later (seems like only 20 years)....

400AD: Republic, 41 cities, SSC is size 27 [I was rather slow in learning how to grow it], 66 techs, researching m-zation. Flight has slowed science down a bit. Peace with all AIs, same WoWs + Darwin. Guess it's about time to plan for parts and a defense.

Grigor: I've never really studied trade, except for 1-2 games by SlowThinker. Also, he is my ally (more-or-less) in a long-running PBEM. No surprise my game plan this time is a lot like his.

 

[URUWASHI]

JUst finished the GOTM..Im exhausted...played several hoours yesterday and most of the day today.
Managed to get to alpha before 1700 , with a 40.000 ship.
After Launching...decided to get rid of pesty Romans , ( kept them on the game because I needed them for trade ), Launching turn coincided with OEDO year..had 10 Bombers ready ..REvolution ...Anarchy...Demanded TRibute....Romans Declared War...Took all their cities except one...and turned back to Democracy in the same turn.
Germans , Japanese , Persians were decimated earlier they only had 1 city since 1500. Took their last cities by 1600
Greeks had no Capital and no Masonry , were never able to get in the game.
After Launch ...Bribed they last 2 cities.
Indians were my allies most of the game ...but I decided after 1500 that I did not need them.
Managed to build all wonders ....two turns before Landing
I will post a more concise log tomorrow .

 

[URUWASHI]

GOTM 63- Log - From 1000 AD to End of Game

Democracy achieved after 500 AD-
By 1000 , maintaining a Tax of 10% - 70 % Science and 20 % Luxuries-
Luxury changed to achieve Celebrations to 40 % .
Discoveries 3 turns
Science City building supermartket- Researching Rail Road
Electricity and Leo updated my Iron Clads to Destroyers, as usual have a very few offensive Units all Homed in Science City

Active and sailing : Two Flotillas made of 3 Destroyers and 2 Galleons ,
( 2 Engineers , 1 Crusader , 2 Diplomats and 1 Explorer per group ) , Destroyers , and Galleons Crusaders supported by Science city ( Shakespeare ).
Convoy sailing North East : Destroyers eliminated Athens ( Greek ) defenses , Explorer takes the Capital ...Greek had no MASONRY ...they will not be able to rebuilt a Palace, since they are on the same continent, I will take them with Diplomats as the game goes, I dont consider them a threat to expand during the game

Convoy sailing SE towards Romans : Discovered several cities , except ROME, seems to be landlocked, also is the # 2 Top City, best option is to take Coastal Roman cities to prevent Naval expansion

10 Wonders : PYR-HG-Collosus-STWA ( Athens ) MP-Michael-Copernicus-Shakespeare- Leo- Newton

By 1150 -
28 Cities - Keeping same Tax Bracket , and MO to incresase Population - 53 Techs

SE Armada attack Romans , and create a beach head, Cummae and Pompeii taken from Romans
North Armada takes on Germans , Berlin and Leipzig Taken ( Germans have no Capital )
Third Armada ( 1 Cruiser and 2 Destroyers , Transports ) takes on the Japanese, Kyoto , Nara and Osaka cities taken from Japanese ( No Capital City )

Persians 3 Cities, Greeks 8 cities no Capital , Indians 3 Cities ( Allied )

2 Wonders Taken - GLibrary ( Berlin ) and Great Wall ( Kyoto )

by 1300-
38 Cities - Same Tax Bracket kept - 59 Techs

Edo, Nagoya and Satsuma taken from Japanese- Japanese 1 city left
Hamburg and Konnisberg taken from Germans- Germans 2 cities left
Ravenna Taken from Romans -
Persepolis ( Persian Capital ) and Arbela , conquered. Persians 1 City left

Caravans ( Silk- Copper and Dye ) being built and storaged

3 New Wonders ( Total 15 ) : King's Richard ( Satsuma ) Magellan ( Nagoya ) Bach Built at Tenochtitlan
Researching Miniaturization

by 1400- 40 Cities- Same Tax Bracket- 62 Techs-
Radio been researched-
Kronninsberg, Berlin ,Satsuma, Kyoto, Arbela , Ravenna , Science city , Xochicalco and Teotihiacan building Colloseums, after the advent of Radio the construction will all be turn into Airport Facilities
Several Caravans , ( silk - Gems- Silver Spice ) waiting on the wings to be delivered as Airports are build
Frankfurt taken from Germans

by 1500-
46 Cities - Caravans help the Income influx -
Tax Bracket changed - 0 % Taxes - 80 % Science - 20 % Luxuries
10 Airports- 1559 Beakers - Gold 1320
Researching Rocketry-
Hispalis and Lugdumum conquered from Romans , Airports built in Each city
Roman cities get a consistent 3 Caravans per turn , bringing 300 to 400 per turn

Romans steal several Techs ( but they have become my bread and butter ) , interestingly the Senate does not call for War. . ..its it because the Trade is more important ??
Can not expell Roman diplomats without causing a War...and thats over-rule by the senate ....
According to Polo ...Romans are " Icy :....but is not Peace- War or Cease Fire reports...( ? )

Internal Trade brings another 200- 300 per turn

by 1600 and beyond....
Apollo Was Built in middle 1550-
Have enough Structurals, and 80 % of components to Launch a 10.000 SS in a few Turns
:Shall I launch a Small ship and arrive before 1650 ?
Have to wait for Semi-Conductor and Fusion Power

Besides its only 17 Wonders Built ( Romans have Oracle and Lighthouse )..Better to Launch SS then conquer the Romans and built the 11 Remaining Wonders

Indians Declare War, 6 Destroyers 1 Cruiser and 1 Transport based on Romania reach India in 2 Turns..Dehli Attacked , defenders destroyed..Capital City taken , Destroyers will take on Coastal cities , Diplomats will subvert the inland cities

Greeks and Germans Declare war by stealing Spacxe flight

Indians, Germans and Japanese wiped out, Persians Declare war...city Subverted., Persians Eliminated.

Prior to the discovery of Semi-Conductor , Made a critical error: Had 10 Cities building Hoover ( for Modules ) Instead of 12 , had to rush the last 2 Modules....lost 3 or 4 Turns , and sold several infrastructures to acvhieve it....ohhhhh well !!

SS Launched - 39-16-12 - 40.000 Population-
OEDO Year-
Have 6 Bombers stationed in Ex-Roman and Ex-Indian Cities-
After Launch...same turn ...Revolution-Demand Romans Tribute- Romans Declare War - Bombers Attack Rome - Destroyers wipe defenders on Vircoonium - Rome Conquered -( Oracle and LH ) -
Same Turn change Goverment to Democracy-
Next turn Diplomats bribe Antium , Veii and Pisae
Romans 2 Cities Left- Neapolis ( Size 1 ) , Palmyra , ( 4 )
Got tired of Pesty Greeks , Diplomats bribe their last 2 Cities- Greeks Destroyed
Barbarians Land near Palmyra -Palymira Bribed –
Barbarians take one of my Island Cities.

Have 10 Turns to wait for SS Landing- Will use the turns and most of the 71 Cities to build Freights and all remaining Wonders

Darwing-Adam-Cancer-Woman suffrage-SOL-Manhattan- UN -Seti - Hoover- Eiffel...all finished 2 Turns before Landing.

Casualties : 22 Units ( 30 % Non Combat Units = 4 explorers- 1 Freight - 2 diplomats )

 

[Ali Ardavan]

I was so excited about this game, I started palying right after it was posted even before finishing the previous GOTM. A month went by with no play and now it is going to be a challenge finishing by this weekend.

I played from -1000 to -500 last night. Greeks declared war; I knew it was inevitable so I was ready. I killed several of their horsemen, bought a warrior for 26g to safeguard my settler, and eventually lost that warrior to a Greek horseman. All of a sudden, in -500s, they proposed peace and paid 150g in tribute! The only tribute I have received so far in this game.

I have built 4 more cities for a total of 12. The last one is the only offshore one on the cross-shaped island. Two more offshore cities, one on the Aryan island and the other on Roman island are planned for the -400s.

Marco was built in -600 and brought much tech and map exchange (all but Greeks and Japanese). Colossus and Pyramids shall be finished in 7 turns.

 

[ElephantU]

Me too...

My OCC seems to be progressing slowly. At AD1 it is size 8, with Marco Polo and Colossus built and Copernicus coming soon. A ship heading to Japan is carrying two Hides caravans to finish the tech and fund the caravan building.

Aquaduct is in place and I am WLTCDing to size 12, which is bumping up my Power Rating. I've got 5 alliances, but two of them are fighting between themselves so monetary gifts require a tech. Three trade routes to Greek cities are in place (+6 each now; wish I'd known there was another civ on this island!); will be interesting to see if the Jap deliveries disturb those before I get the roads done. Got 19 techs and researching Ast at 6 turns; 21st tech will bump research cost up but University is being built and Copernicus is close.

For comparison, MPE was built in 375BC. I ran into the Greeks in 1200BC, gave them everything I had (including Monarchy) and then avoided them till I got Marco. With the extra techs from trading I got them up to Enthusiastic and made an alliance. Now to get that road in place.

 

[Duke of Marlbrough]

Would it help everyone if we extended the deadline by a week or so?

 

[Sharkbait]

Would it help everyone if we extended the deadline by a week or so?

I hope to finish on time (actually finishing would be a nice change).

Anyway, congrats on the 8000th post!

 

[Peaster]

I don't need an extension, but the idea seems good. It's been a long game.

Progess report at 530AD (corrected date): 5 structurals built, 23 cities working on other parts. Hope to launch in approx 3 turns, with a 13.2 year trip. Peace on earth, for now. [edit: launched after 560AD turn]

 

[Dinamo]

I've decided to try an OCC after my main game just for experience and fun. I built my city on a four special site next to the river ( 1 wine, 1 wheat and 2 grass covered silks). The game went on nicely and my spaceship landed in 1825 ( 15 - 6 - 3). The only trouble I had were the greeks - I had to give them a lot of techs and money to make peace and them to ally. They built a max ship, but they lack Superconductor so ... maybe next time . I think it was preaty good for my first try, and also it wasn't so much time consuming, so it's an option worth considering in the future.

 

[Ali Ardavan]

Played from -500 till +0070 last night. Major highlights:

-0475 Pyramids built. All techs -> Indian.
-0450 Math -> Philosophy. Tamuin founded on the Aryan continent.
-0425 Teayo founded on the Roman continent.
-0400 Accepted Persian offer of 50g to ally with them against Japanese.
-0325 Colossus built. Math, Monarchy -> Japanese (1) -> cease fire.
-0300 Cempoala founded on the Roman continent.
-0175 Philosophy -> Monotheism -> Astronomy.
-0075 Hanging Gardens built in science city which celebrates.
-0050 Barbarian leader captured for 100g. Philosophy, Monotheism -> German -> Construction, Banking, 0g. Revolution started.
-0025 Republic established. T3L3S4.
+0001 Greek horseman kills my Archer. All but one eligible city celebrate. University from hut. Tlalmanalco founded near Japan.

Status at +0001
Population: 0.99M; Cities: 17; Trade routes: 0D0F; Government: Republic
Finance. Treasury: 55; Cost per turn: 3; Income: 48; Tax rate: 30%
Science: Total advances: 26; Advance every 13 turns; Science rate: 40%
Production: 82MT; 0 polluted tiles
Wonders: Colossus, Pyramids, Hanging Gardens, Marco.
Units: 9 settlers (1 None), 1 Warriors, 12 Phalanx, 1 None Chariots, 3 Trireme, 2 Diplomat, 8 Caravans.
Roman: 8 cities, 231g, 12 techs; War with me
Japanese: 3 cities, 300g, 14 techs; War with me & Persians
German: 3 cities, 358g, 21 techs;
Persian: 2 cities, 114g, 16 techs; Allied with me, war with Japanese
Greek: 4 cities, 213g, 15 techs; War with me
Indian: 2 cities, 161g, 26 techs;

 

[Ali Ardavan]

Progess report at 560AD: 5 structurals built, 23 cities working on other parts. Hope to launch in approx 3 turns, with a 13.2 year trip. Peace on earth, for now.

WOW! That is an amazing result. I am still 50 turns away from that date but I doubt if I can beat that.

 

[Peaster]

Thanks, Ali. I just finished, and like Uruwashi, I am exhausted. IMO the best way to learn is to replay a game different ways, but I have NO urge to do that this time. In the end, I conquered the tech-thief Romans, and survived minor skirmishes with the Persians/etc. I built the cheaper Wonders (under 400). Again I miscounted turns - I built 3 Wonders in 582 AD which didn't score. I stayed with Republic the whole game.

One feature of my game that I didn't mention was a #2 SSC/STC, which was usually about 2/3 as big, and produced approx 1/5 the beakers as the #1. It seemed pretty useful for trade bonuses when the SSC was blocked. I also used it to support tons of settlers, with an emergency food van arriving every 5 turns or so. Not sure it was a great idea, but not bad.

It seems safe to say that shipchains can work in a Republic. Though maybe I was lucky to get away with such a tiny land army in this game.

Ali: I will not be surprised if you beat my result. But you need to get some 1-turn advances pretty soon.

 

[Ali Ardavan]

In the end, I conquered the tech-thief Romans, and survived minor skirmishes with the Persians/etc.

Interesting observation about Romans. In my game they have the Great Library and because I share my techs with Indians (key civ) they typically have all but 1-3 techs. They still were intent on stealing from me. They kept sending diplomats which I explled. Then they sent a diplomat stacked with a warrior which I could not expel; and succeeded in stealing. I took advantage of the situation and declared war. I killed several of their units and they killed my only None combat unit; the one I got from a hut at the begining of the game. A ship with 2 Engineers, a musketeer, and a crusader is on its way to attempt to capture one of their cities.

I built the cheaper Wonders (under 400).

Wow; you built a space ship without the benefit of Hoover dam. Amazing. I have to study your games in detail.

Again I miscounted turns - I built 3 Wonders in 582 AD which didn't score.

If you launched in 570 with a 13y trip time anything built in 582 counts. Anything scheduled to finish in 583 would not. By the way, this is even faster than your previous estimate!

I stayed with Republic the whole game.

With as many ships as you build Democracy is not useful when ships cause unhappiness. But why did you not switch afterwards?

Ali: I will not be surprised if you beat my result. But you need to get some 1-turn advances pretty soon.

I have played till 460 this morning and I know I cannot beat your time. I am still before Railroad and before Electricity.

 

[Ali Ardavan]

Grigor: I did a quick medal count and IMO you are #1 in the GOTM HOF! Congrats! Golem and I (and Smash, etc, of course) are not too far behind. I hope our DOM or MOD will update it soon.

Smash has not played in a very long time. Same is true of three others among the top ten: Starlifter, chofritz, and Lucky. It is only a matter of time before current players catch up with them.

 

[Peaster]

Interesting observation about Romans. In my game they have the Great Library and because I share my techs with Indians (key civ) they typically have all but 1-3 techs.

They built GL iin my game too! But all this was fairly late in the game, and I had mostly stopped sharing techs. They had also built Magellans, so I was eager to conquer them anyway. During peacetime, I had built a RR to Rome. So, with a total Aztec army of about 4 units, I took their capitol in one turn!

But I allowed some other civs to steal. I couldn't afford to fight them all.

Wow; you built a space ship without the benefit of Hoover dam. Amazing. I have to study your games in detail.

I have never believed that factories are worth the start-up costs. [I have a "theory of interest" behind that, but people don't seem to accept it.] An exception might be a city already making over 20 shields per turn, but I had no cities making over 10. BTW - I built the CfC (600) to promote celebrations, and of course Apollo.

If you launched in 570 with a 13y trip time anything built in 582 counts. Anything scheduled to finish in 583 would not. By the way, this is even faster than your previous estimate!

Yes, I reported 2 things wrong. I labelled my 530AD progress report as 560AD. And I should have said "I filled the shield boxes for 3 wonders in 582" (but the wonders were never actually built). My only excuse is that this game numbed my mind.

With as many ships as you build Democracy is not useful when ships cause unhappiness. But why did you not switch afterwards?

I have played till 460 this morning and I know I cannot beat your time. I am still before Railroad and before Electricity.

I have not played many games in Republic or Democracy, so my reasoning may be a bit weak. But 1) I thought Republic was working well - I didn't mind the 80% cap on research, because I needed a little extra gold to fuel trade and rush-buys. I was already getting 1 adv per turn (or 90% of that). 2) the Senate is more annoying in Democracy IMO, so I might not have been able conquer the Romans, for example. 3) I kept my ships until almost the end, to transport vans for wonders, etc. [but they were mostly transports - maybe those don't cause unhappiness in Demo ? Well, I didn't really think that far during the game].

I never built the Statue, but I guess I could have chosen an oedo turn to switch. Still, don't you lose a turn of production/science by switching ? (one of the many game-mechanics I've never paid enough attention to).

Good luck in your game!

 

[Ali Ardavan]

I have never believed that factories are worth the start-up costs. [I have a "theory of interest" behind that, but people don't seem to accept it.]

I like to hear it.

An exception might be a city already making over 20 shields per turn, but I had no cities making over 10.

That is because you place your cities close by. I bet most of your cities are size 8 or under. I place my cities so that there is little overlap and grow them to 20+ size. After offshore platform, most cities will be producing over 20 shileds.
I am still interested in your theory, given your amazing results.

I have not played many games in Republic or Democracy, so my reasoning may be a bit weak. But 1) I thought Republic was working well - I didn't mind the 80% cap on research, because I needed a little extra gold to fuel trade and rush-buys. I was already getting 1 adv per turn (or 90% of that). 2) the Senate is more annoying in Democracy IMO, so I might not have been able conquer the Romans, for example.

The 80% cap is only a handicap in OCC; otherwise it is immaterial since you typically need at least 10-20% lux to keep cities in order.
I do not believe the Senate is any more annoying in Democracy. As far as I know it functions the same way. The only thing that affects Senate interference is UN.

3) I kept my ships until almost the end, to transport vans for wonders, etc. [but they were mostly transports - maybe those don't cause unhappiness in Demo ?

Correct. Transports and Galleons, which are both non combat units, do not cause unhappiness. All other ships do.

I never built the Statue, but I guess I could have chosen an oedo turn to switch. Still, don't you lose a turn of production/science by switching ? (one of the many game-mechanics I've never paid enough attention to).

You do lose one turn worth of taxes, maintenance costs, and science; but not production. You make that back in less than 10 turns because of lack of corruption in Democracy though.

Good luck in your game!

Thank you. My current goal is to launch before 1000. I am going to need a lot of 1 turn techs to achieve that. Many of my cities have 3 trade routes in place but I am still 3 turns per tech. Newton is being constructed right now and by then I should be 2 turns per tech.

 

[Peaster]

That is because you place your cities close by. I bet most of your cities are size 8 or under.

I am still interested in your theory, given your amazing results.

I do not believe the Senate is any more annoying in Democracy. As far as I know it functions the same way. The only thing that affects Senate interference is UN.

Yes, my cities were mostly small, and this map did not have great shield terrain for my bigger ones. In an EC game (with monarchy) my cities usually stay size 3 or less, and I think this is more efficient than large cities. Though I have thought mostly about early game + monarchy situations rather than long landing games, and there may be some differences.

I just posted the main points of my theory in the strategy forum. Please let me know what you think.

I am interested in the opinions of other players about the Senate. I do not have a lot of experience with that, but to me it has seemed to interfere more often in Demo (75% without UN? 50% with UN?) than Repub (about 25%?).

 

[URUWASHI]

I have some points ...why the Romans were able to steal techs and the Senate did not declare war ??
I dont remember seeing that in any game.
Expeling Roman Diplomats was out of the question.....If I tried I will start a War...
The final trick was when one of their cities went into Anarchy and I was able to Bribe it without no after effects, my diplomats could be within the same radius of the city and not be expelled ..( ? )
How can that be explained ??

 

[Ali Ardavan]

I have some points ...why the Romans were able to steal techs and the Senate did not declare war ??

My senate did declare war.

Expeling Roman Diplomats was out of the question.....If I tried I will start a War...

The only explanation is that the diplomat is stacked with another unit. Then you cannot expel and any action will be considered hostile and overruled by Senate.

 

[Ali Ardavan]

I have played till early 800s. I have been on 1 tech per turn since +590. Very few pre-flight techs remain. Future techs should start by mid 900s.

Infrastructure is lacking. I have just started to build factories, there are just a few super highways, and not enough offshore platforms. I have many libraries, several universities, and too few Banks. There is only one supermarket in my science city whose perimeter is completely improved.

I am also behind in Wonders (compared to my tech). I have all premodern ones I consider essential but a desired one, Adam Smith, is missing. I also had to skip shakespeare. That one is no longer useful as my science city is maxed out. I will get Cure for Cancer next turn. I would like to build SETI and Hoover. But Hoover is useless without factories and by the time I get SETI I will be all but done with techs needed for the space ship.

My rivals, except Romans, are pathetic. I have almost as many cities on the large continent shared by Japanese, Persians, and Germans (all perfectionist civs) than the 3 of them combined. Indians have not yet fully settled their medium sized island. Persians have been a good ally of mine and I have good relations with Germans and Indians. The others I have fought with off and on. Greeks are sandwiched with 4 cities. They kept throwing forces at me for a long while instead of expanding into the fertile land north of the starting point. They did not even explore it. I put a rifleman on a choke point hilltop and have built 5 cities there and 1 more planned. We have been at peace for a while now.

I have also expanded into many nearby small islands. This late expansion is one reason my infrastructure is lacking; the other reason is a poorly executed war with Romans which the senate ended as I was getting ready to attack Rome. I just did not have assault units and soon after I made them the war ended.