GOZ3 -(Totally Barbaric)-C3C

[grahamiam]

and another. the spanish appear much weaker based on city size.

 

[grahamiam]

Originally posted by microbe
1) They are more advanced so more a threat.
2) They are close so we can send troops over there easily.
3) They have no saltpeter so we will be fighting pike and knight/MDI. And if they only have one iron, you see my screenshot about the first invasion point.

Our rep is already screwed, so we don't need to care about breaking deals. Yeah we may lose some money, but that's minor to me. We can gain more benefit from the war itself.

I agree with most your points. Regarding #3, they do have muskets. I see 1 in a city and 1 parked on a forrest.

Regarding tranfering troops ---> there is a potential "ferry" location, west of antium. we will need to build a new city, then we'll be able to pick up and drop off on the same turn, allowing the units to go on the attack right away.

also, btw, we are weak compared to them, meaning lots of pikes/muskets and probably some knights.

 

[microbe]

I checked the save.

Hitties must be importing saltpeter from Inca.

The "ferry" location seems a great idea. This also avoids galleys being exposed to frigates.

It's interesting to see Hitties forces outnumber us. Probably lots of 3-man chariots. All its cities are also pop 12. Hitties is already in Industrial Age. Once it gets rifles it would be much difficult. But what we can do is to just pillage all over Hitties using the army and musketmen, and play a more defensive war otherwise. That said, I agree we should not go to war without being prepared.

Going after Spain may be easier, but Spain is never my worry. We may even need her to catch up. I really want to stop Hitties from running away..

What do others think?

 

[akots]

Go get 'em, IMO. Plain and simple. But it would be nice to have Galleons for transport of armies as well.

 

[grahamiam]

Originally posted by akots
But it would be nice to have Galleons for transport of armies as well.

my thought as well. however, they won't trade us mag for anything. if we want an army over there, we'll have to assemble it on site (we have 1 leader).

btw, they are ahead mag, ToG, metal, and democracy and probably some other stuff we never hear of. microbe is right, if we don't do something now, they'll run away from us. i'll see what i can do. i'll probably start something in the middle of my turns, establish the ferry and a beachhead, capture the town on our mainland with our 2 armys and maybe 1 or 2 others if i'm lucky. this should set up akots to do his thing

i haven't seen any cav but it appears that cone was scouting them quite a bit. cone, did you see any?

 

[conehead234]

No I didn't see any.

 

[grahamiam]

first, the 1050AD save

Summary: Got 1 side of the ferry setup, but decited to wait on attacking the Hittites as we have MT due very soon.

Preflight check: ok, time to get ready for operation light-the-hittite. Move units south that are packed in the northern cities.

Switch Hippo, Utica from Banks to settlers (1T,no shields wasted); Switch Himilco to Army and move out. Move as many units south as possible.

T1: 960AD MM between Carthage and LM to get Carthage growing again and stall LM’s growth (6 happy, 5 sad faces so no need to grow more); It’s going to take 7T for the Hippo settler to get into position so this may take a little longer than I thought.

T2: 970AD move some more. Trade available with Spain: 32gpt for our iron so I take it.

IBT: Lose furs & silks

T3: 980AD Lots of people know Metal. Trade with Netherlands: Metal & WM & 1gpt for Economics. Hittites do have MT.
Another Trade: Inca: Furs for Economics, WM, 175g
And another: Sumeria: Wines for Gems, Dyes, and 345g & WM
Netherlands again: WM, 1gpt, 15g for WM
Make another 90 or so gold trading WM.
Upgrade another galley to Caravel. We now have 8 which should be enough. North Pole Galley heads home since map trading has shown us most of the map.
Hittites have lots of incense

Set Research to MT 100%, 8T.

T4: 990AD Getting ready, almost there. Have 6 ships loaded with 18units and 2 more getting ready.
Trades: Neth: 9gpt for dyes

IBT: Korea lands 3 units (pike, 2 mdi)next to London but does not declare. Inca land 1 unit (Ancient Cav) but does not declare. We are extremely thin in this area. We only have 2 knights and 1 MDI that can do any damage

T5: 1000AD Ask Korea to leave or declare, they declare war. Ask Inca that units must be withdrawn, they agree but don’t declare war. According to our adviser, Hittites have Cav. Rotate some troops over towards London but I believe it’ll fall next turn.
Trades: Zulu: Silks for dyes, Invention & Theology

IBT: Attack on London: Korean vet MDI kills MDI and they take the city; Reg MDI attacks our knight and dies.
We lose Ivory and Furs as the Inca declare war on us and take Tacape

T6: 1010AD Attack on Tacape: vet knight redlines AC but dies; ¾ knight kills the AC and we take the city.
Attack on London: elite* knight kills pike (3/5); vet knight kills spear (3/4); MDI left underneath for next turn.
Found Cirta (1/2 of ferry). We are somewhat ready but I believe it’d be unwise to attack Hittites without Cav. Need to beef up # of fast units and increase the number of unit builds going on. Right now, everything is gear towards infrastructure.

T7: 1020AD Battle to regain London: another spear shows up so ¾ knight attacks spear and wins (2/4); 3/5 elite* attacks 2/4 MDI and retreats without scratching the unit

T8: 1030AD MT in 3T @ +126gpt; Battle to regain London: MDI attacks MDI and dies; elite* knight dies to redlined MDI; vet knight kills MDI and we regain the city. Spain has Mag but want a lot for it.

T9: 1040AD landscaping

T10: 1050AD more of the same. Some builds come in, build knights. MT due in 1T.

Hittites definitely have cavalry. Good luck.

 

[akots]

Cool! I got the save and will try to play tomorrow and post but cannot promise 100%. So then guess it might go for Monday since the server will be down.

8 caravels mean army, 2 settlers, a couple of musketmen just in case, and 18-19 cavalry, tent for the general, make sure we don't wet the gunpowder jars while sailing... Might be not enough. I'm still under the impression of my failed beachhead in gotm27 against the Oda. Though Hittites don't have samurai and its not predator with Sid unit support. It might be a good idea to land on their horses or saltpeter though.

 

[microbe]

It might be a good idea to land on their horses or saltpeter though.

Or iron.

We probably should focus on pillaging instead of taking those size-12 cities. We can start razing cities when Hitties agrees to talk, so if we fail we can sign peace without worrying about Army being killed.

Is there any way to get Astronomy (by trading MT, for example?) Then we can get all 3 armies out there..

 

[grahamiam]

we have astronomy already and we need mag to get galleons. right now, we have caravels (3 units max transport) so, iirc, army's won't transport if they have more than 2 units installed.

my experience with amph landings in crackers gotm27 shortgame showed that the ptw AI was unwilling to attack a 2 unit, fully healed cav army. not sure if c3c AI will be more aggressive. also, hittites definitely have cav, so expect a lot of bloodshed for both sides.

good luck

edit: taking thier iron will only thwart thier ability to build MDI, knights, and pikes since muskets only need salt and cav need salt & horses. i could not locate a source for either but I didn't look very carefully. iron could be cutoff by taking the town due west of the ferry location.

 

[microbe]

we have astronomy already and we need mag to get galleons.

So my memory was wrong.

edit: taking thier iron will only thwart thier ability to build MDI, knights, and pikes since muskets only need salt and cav need salt & horses.

I agree, things have changed a lot since my last turn.

We still need to land on a mountain.

 

[grahamiam]

Originally posted by microbe
So my memory was wrong. ...

We still need to land on a mountain.

no problem, i do that too. age issues

regarding mountain landing... may be best option, though we should make sure we get a city on thier continent 2 tiles from 1 of our cities. that way, with caravels moving 5 tiles each, they can pickup, drop off, and return in 1T. this will keep the flow of troops at a maximum.

imho, land all units on the same tile, be it mountain, hill, grass, whatever. i have found, thru many failures, that splitting them up only allows them to be destroyed faster especially against large foes.

 

[akots]

To put it short, we made some beach head. Not very brilliant but we are still alive there. Got 2 leaders and now have 3 cavalry armies there. But Hittites have accumulated some decent military over the ages. This happens if AI is left undisturbed for 5 thousand years. We obviously should have gone for Mursilis instead of Beth some time ago. And Despotism sucks. Not just sucks but really sucks.

Pre-turn check reveals that we are in great shape. Hittites have riflemen BTW. And our military is weak compared to theirs. And our citizens are very happy. And we still have 4 turns in a deal with Mursilis. He is actually paying us most of our budget.

IBT. Mursilis comes and asks for our TM and 100g. He's positively nuts. We refuse without much thinking. He then agrees to wait for awhile before demonstrating the new Hittite war machine. We discover MT and head for ToG.

[1] 1060AD. Upgraded all knights except elite and our military is still weak. Trade ToG from Spain for MT+580g. Traded ToG+350g to Sumeria for Magnetism. They got Medicine as a free tech. Hittites have Nationalism. Spain has nothing yet. All caravels upgraded. I’m thinking about pop-rushing some cavalry in corrupt cities.
IBT. Many build are ready including aqueduct in Conheadgrad which is at size 6 and has no surplus food.

[2] 1070AD. Sumeria now has Nationalism and Mursilis has Medicine. This decreases our research time by 1 turn. Currently running 80% at 11 turns.

[3] 1080AD. Korea ready to talk peace. Trade Nationalism from them in the process for MT+1549g+125gpt. Time is everything IMHO. The sooner we get from Despotism, the easier our life would be. Traded saltpeter to Korea for 31gpt to compensate for our financial losses in part. Trade Nationalism to Spain for Democracy (what is this?) + WM+35gpt+80g. Trade dyes+gems to Korea for 41gpt. Cancel luxury deals with Mursilis. Fascism is in 16 turns at 80%.
IBT. Some cities riot. Must be tired of our iron fist rule.

[4] 1090AD. We are all set and next turn can declare.

[5] 1100AD. We declare to Mursilis. Make peace with Inca and trade ivory and alliance against Mursilis for gems+dyes+ToG+MT. Trade to Portugal Physics+Democracy for alliance against Mursilis. Our knight army brave defeats rifleman in Alaca losing only 7hp. IBT. Korea declared war on Inca. Party landed and ignored as expected. IBT. Many Hittite ships sail. Mursilis bought Zulu into alliance and we lost silks, alas.

[6] 1110AD. Hattusha captured at a staggering price of 4 cavalries. Improvements sold and city abandoned. It had 11 resisters. Everything retreating to Tingis and preparing for the slaughter. Microbe (!!!) brings us a leader. Therefore Microbe renamed to Micorbe Mursilis barber (I hate his moustache). Hasdrubal returns to Tingis and builds an army there. Slaughter some more medieval and ancient Hittite troop losing 2 cavalry in the process. Holding breath and hitting enter. IBT. Not much, just small SOD of Hittite cavalry and chariots move to the forest near Tingis killing musketman defending there. Some cities riot. Some were whipped to get more cavalry.

[7] 1120AD. We capture Alaca. Can keep the city for now, can abandon later on if needed. Slaughter some more Hittite units total count about 10 or 11. IBT. Korea and Hittites allied against Henry. Poor Henry! Now it is getting serious. We almost lost army (1 hp left), 1 musket, 2 knights and 2 cavalry in Tingis. There are total 16 units threatening Tingis, some landed from galleons. Mostly cavalry, riflemen and chariots.

[8] 1130AD. Got another leader while attacking Hittite cavalry. Hamilcar builds another army. Slaughtered almost all units but 3 chariots and warrior. IBT. Apparently Hittites are out of horses. Only rifles with some MDI and LB. A bunch of cities riot (???). Never been in Despotism in Industrial Age, may be some despotic war weariness.

[9] 1140AD. Some more units killed but flux is decreasing. Armies are still healing. I give up and increase luxuries to 10%. Don’t know what is going on there but this is something weird. OK, we trade furs from Inca for Nationalism. It might be a bad idea but we’ll know later on. Sumeria has Fascism. Traded ToG to Portugal for some cash and gpt. Mursilis ready to talk peace and also has Fascism. We go there at 90% and will arrive in 7 turns.
IBT. Mursilis allied with Spain against us. Too bad for both. Just to show that this Mursilis is not that simple guy like he looks like. This is the picture of our Tingis-beachhead and vicinity:

Upper SOD has 5 cavalry, MDI, rifle, and chariot. Lower SOD has 10 rifles, 1 cavalry, 6 MDI, 3 LB and pike. Overall there are 16 frigates and 3 galleons in the area.

[10] 1150AD. Some worker movements. All military and diplo left to the next player. Don’t know how we are going to advance, see no possibility of doing that. Beachhead is not my strong point. At least this time the losses are not so huge. But Mursilis accumulated decent military. Good luck!

SAVE

 

[microbe]

Akots, I think you've done a good job. These cities are tough but you managed to take two of them, and it will slow Hitties down.

We still have MA left but we don't care about our rep anyway.

I'll see what I can do. The earliest time I could play is tomorrow night.

 

[akots]

Watch for that Alaca city. We better quell all resisters and rush couple of cavalries there or abandon it right away. There are two armies in it and flip calculator tells me that chances for the city to flip are about 12% in 10 turns. We own it for 5 turns already, so chances are about 15-18% for the next 10 turns. However, if we starve it to size 1 and keep an army there, chances to flip are zero.

It is also risky to revolt while at war with both Spain and Hittites. A good option may be to evacuate our 3 armies and move them to Spain to pillage and slaughter some wandering troops there. On the other hand, Spain is far away and has large navy. So, what if our army gets under a frigate attack during transport? We don't want that to happen.

 

[grahamiam]

tough work akots, but as good as it gets for now unfortunately, number of foes has grown and we're in a real furball with the Hittites. i'm sure there were some sweaty palms during those IBT's 2 cities is really good, considering the conditions.

imho, forget about spain. they'll get thiers soon enough. i think the best course of action is to get facism, revolt, and trigger a GA. that should be all we need to destroy the Hittites and would make good use of the GA. meanwhile, hold on as best we can. we need walls in Tingis to help with the defense. maybe bring a settler or 2 over to join the city so we can pop rush something? do we have rifles around to help out?

 

[microbe]

preturn: I abandon Alaca. This city isn't worth keeping. I switch Hamburg to settler losing 9 shields.

Kill the upper SoD losing no units, but one army anr cav redlined. Will the AI attack the city? Probably.

IBT we lose an army and a cav but the city holds. Portugal and Spain embargo against us.

Many AI start Shakespear.

(1)1160AD: kill about 5 rifle and other outdated units in the open. There are now only about 6 units around us. Land a rifle as reinforcement.

IBT Sumeria demands TM+38g, I cave narually. Rifle is attacked by cav but wins/redlines.

(2)1170AD: Kill all the units around. Now our 9-hp army can go pillaging. Hopefully it will not get attacked.

Facism now in 3 turns.

I switch Carthage to Pentagon.

IBT no attack except Frigate bombardment.

(3)1180AD: Our cav army starts pillaging and ends on a mountain - it could pillage 4 times each turn. I move the musketman and a couple of cavs into the choke forest. Knight army also lands. Army should be safe but I avoid coastal tiles so I wouldn't be bombarded by frigates.

IBT Zulu declares on Portugal. Dyes deal with Sumeria ended and he asks for too much so I pass. Zulu offers peace, I accept and buy silks for Metallury + gems + 10g.

IBT Newton's University due. I start University.

Canterbury riots.

(4)1190AD: Hitties land a reg longbow and a reg rifle next to Tingis, and we get another leader. I debated what to do with it, and decide to create another army to pillage faster. We may be able to raze another city.

New Carthage founded to replace Alaca.

IBT Netherlands and Hitties MA vs Inca.

Facism->Steam Power. I revolt immediately.

(5)1200AD: We are at -5gpt with 55g, and we have 9 turns in anarchy. Dyes to Sumeria for 21gpt to cover it. Facism to Korea for Medicine+Free Artistry+WM+12g+17gpt (everything he has).

Hitties has Steam Power.

I sign embargo against Hitties with Inca and Portugal.

IBT: Hitties send more units toward us.

Spain drops a conquistor.

Palace gets expansion.

(6)1210AD: 3 armies starts pillaging. Two of them are fully healed, the other is 12-hp. I always try to let them end in non-coastal tiles to avoid frigate bombardment. Cav armies can pillage 4 tiles per turn, which is very powerful.

IBT Hitties send some cavs and our army drops to 8-hp. Inca and Hitties sign peace. MA is broken so we lose ivory. Portugal and Hitties make peace. Scroll ahead to fix riots.

(7)1220AD: Korea/Hitties/Sumeria have Communism and Steam Power. I don't renew ivory deal as Inca asks 2 lux + 123g + 18gpt and we don't need lux so much in anarchy. We may even get incense from Hitties.

Kill 3 cavs in the open but lose 2 cavs ourselves. Keep pillaging.

IBT Cav promotes our rifle. 3 rifle and 1 cav land.

(8)1230AD: We kill the rifles/cav. Pillaging incense and iron. We can make peace with Spain and trade Facism for Steam. We'll lose some war happiness but I do it. I also sign embargo against Hitties. We do have two coals.

Sumeria/Korea lack coal, but they don't want to give me lux for that?! Looks like our rep is completely trashed. They don't pay lumsum for coal either. Hitties don't have coal either.

I decide to get ivory from Inca for Steam Power. Inca doesn't seem to have coal.

IBT Korea and Hitties MA vs us. Yeah I like war happiness.

(9)1240AD: Look at this:

It's Leptis, not that corrupted. So I set it to IW. I suggest we do not switch as the coal may disappear.

IBT Zulu and Korea sign MPP. Sumeria/Korea MA vs Portugal. Netherlands and Hitties MA vs us.

(10)1250AD: Kill a Hitties MDI dropped next to London - it's the only unit Hitties dropped on our homeland. More pillaging.

To next leader: just keep pillaging, after that move armies back and raze Tarsus, and settle the incense then sign peace. You may want to move the 11-hp pillaging army back to heal. Always leave a fully healed army at the choke.

Due to pillaging Hitties aren't able to reach us easily. If they move units in the open, just bombard and kill them. Note I also intentionally leave a tile for them to land..

The war has been going surprisingly well. We have 3 turns left for anarchy, after that we'll be unstoppable. Good luck!

 

[grahamiam]

great set Microbe! looks like the Hittite army is well worn down. when to you feel we can start taking cities?

9T anarchy! wow! well, guess that goes with being the biggest bully on the block

edit: when does the team want to trigger our GA? i vote for the turn after anarchy ends. that IW town will come in all the sooner

 

[microbe]

With 4 armies we can certainly take any city we want NOW. The reason I didn't start doing that is that I want to finish the pillaging (which is almost halfway through).

We should raze/re-found the incense city which we really want. We may try to capture another. I would stop there - we may proceed more but I don't think Hitties will be a threat any more anyway.

 

[grahamiam]

well, we seem to be going for a domination win, right? might as well take them all