GR13 - AWE on LK's world map

Well it is clear as mud as to the team strategy, about split it seems. I am very fond of holding the choke and not going to extented oneself.

I like the idea of taking down those civ behind us and then moving out. we probably will not have any horses for some time though. Without an army we will be unable to defend new towns in the Babs land. Just not enough shields to deal with the new civs we will surely face then.

I have no issues with a false attack to give then a GA, but they may already have one. They could be fighting elsewhere, but I suspect not.

Anyway I personally do not believe we can get the GLB, without a huge piece of luck and an all out effort. As I mentioned, I doubt we can keep up the research and the war effort.

I think I will play 5 turns and keep at the GLB. Then post the save to see if how the team see it, rather than just cut the chord. I would vote to cut the chord now though and take an expensive sword now, rather than later.

Anyway at that point I can either play on with a better view the rest of the set or pass it on to someone that has a clear plan and wants to execute it.

The thing is that emperor civs will do a better job of cranking out units than we faced in the Monarch game. They will soon be making MDI's and in some numbers. We will have no units that can hit and return, so all will be exposed, unless covered.

Once a civ gets into the war effort and is making mostly troops, they will be flowing in at a steady pace.
 
I read ThERat's post and reread the rest and I am now leaning towards dropping the GLB. Have we had notice of things like ToA being started?

With some civs most likely having Map, I would think a trade is possible for Lit. If several get Lit and any switch to the GLB in a cascade it will be lights out for any shot.

I am inclinded to expect a GLB from that more than anything and I have no idea who will get it, but I do not see it as being us.

I think I will wait till 1PM my time to start and will cut the chord, unless I hear not to. I want to get my turn in today. So can we have an up or down on the GLB please?
 
If you are looking for a vote, I believe this is the feeling of the team about continuing on with the GLib

NP- yes
Greebley- undecided
markh- not voted
ThERat, M60- no

The good news is someone has to be right. ;)

I'd say just make a decision and go. There are no slouches on this team. :D

As long as there's focus in the direction we're taking we should be ok.
 
Finish of Pre:

I go with the abandonment of the GLB and switch to a sword.

IBT: some movement of units towards us, nothing else.

330BC:
2 cats hit and I swap the sword for a spear at Giza to kill a yellow spear sitting on the oasis. Don't want it to cut the tile up. 5 units near Giza. (1-0)

The capitol is unhappy and if I use a pop for specialist, we lose the 3 turn swords. We also have Pi-Ram unhappy so it would need a taxman as well. I go with the 30% lux.

Send a reg warrior to the Bowman stack.

It is now 50 research 30 lux at +1 and we have 8 gold.

IBT:
1 bowman dies at Alex. (1-0) [2-0]
Many songhai show up and we now have 12 of them and 2 impi Zulu archer at Giza, not good.

310BC:
Sword kills Zulu archer (1-0). One impi is in position to reach Memphis. Ok I give up a warrior to a bowman and trigger their GA, if it was not going already. (1-1)
Vet sword kills the bowman and is redlined (2-1).

I peek at F4 and we do not have contact with the green guys. I hope they are not Persian.

Sword kills another bowman (3-1). [5-1]

IBT:
archer dies attacking sword near Giza (1-0) [6-1]

290BC:
Sword redlines impi and it retreats. I cover with the other wounded sword as they have an impi next to us. I had to risk it to drive them away from Memphis and Helio as they only have 1 spear and no attackers.
Sword at Giza kills archer. (1-0). Still no promotions and near as I can see all elites are spears.

I go ahead and move the not quite healed spear to cover the sword as a warrior and an impi can reach it and it is yellow. Not sure if it would attack, but now it probably goes for Memphis.
Songhai have 8 archers still on the hill over looking the incense. I pinged 1.
[7-1]
Pi lost its MP and had to get a taxman for a turn.

IBT: no action, two more Zulu archers move up.

270BC:
Pi makes a sword and the pop goes back to work to stay on 5 turn swords. Hum, we have 4 zulus just past Giza and towards Helio. We have 8 Song archers in one stack next to them and a single archer that I just pinged red and a warrior on the hills and closer.

I need to cut them down or send them back, but I have only 2 yellow swords and a wounded one on the scene. The towns of Helio and Giza have a spear and an archer respectively.

We have 2 spears on the lux and another 4/5 spear near and a sword that has gotten to Memphis.
Archer from Giza kills redlined archer on the hill. The 8 archers can attack it though. (1-0)
I see an additional impi behind the stack of 3 Zulus now.
3/4 sword kills warrior (2-0) [9-1]

IBT: went worse than I had hoped. The archer dies without even killing a single archer.
A galley from Hammy is closing in on El-Am, which is not defended. (0-1) [9-2]
I really hate archers, they are hell on your ratio.

250BC:
Pull a sword from Alex and send to El-Am. More risk, send the yellow sword at Giza to kill the archer on the hill. I just feel we cannot afford to let them heal and attack. Worse make us attack in a spot we do not want to do it. Anyway it kills the archer and goes elite. 1 impi could reach it, but it is now 3/5 on a hill and it may leave it alone or lose. One can always hope. (1-0) [10-2]
Sword redlines an impi and it retreats, do they always get to retreat?

IBT:
Sorry another not so good one. The impi that retreated was now 2 moves away from what I thought were safe workers. He grabs them. The 2 Zulu archers attacked the wounded sword and it kills one and redlines the other, but dies. (1-1) [11-3]
So far this is not shaping up as a very good set.

Oh, Babs finish th ToA, Gemany finishes Lighthouse and Az does the Wall. Bow lands at El-Am.

230BC:
Sword kills the Bow at El (1-0). Sword at Memphis kills the redlined archer
(2-0).
Spear at Helio kills a redline unit (3-0). I see a Song archer heading for Pi and I send the two new swords in that direction.
Just to let you know how scary it has been I had uncovered the incense, but now it is covered as 4 Song archers are next to it and 1 impi. Ping the impi and 2 of the archers and we will see how it goes. The last 2 IBT's were not the best I have seen. [14-3]

IBT:
Well not so bad, the impi retreated to heal, the 2 good archers moved and the damaged ones left.

210BC:
Sword at Giza kills archer and is elite. Now we have 2, but both are damaged. (1-0)
Many damaged units out there, but I cannot reach them. [15-3]

IBT: Songhai ask for a talk, I guess they want peace. Did not see what they price was, not even sure if it is allowed anyway. OH OH, sorry guys I slapped in the default research intending to check it out after the IBT awhile back, but forgot.

So we are close to learning Pottery. I am not so sure it matters, since I bailed on the GLB anyway. I am starting to get a bad feeling the Babs would not have beat us, but that does not mean someone else won't. I am wonder if they went with a 5 shield town and now get 7 or so shields.

190BC:
Cats have a good round and hit all but once. 2 swords and a 4/5 one kill 3 archers at Memphis (3-0). Ha, a sword kills archer and goes elite and is 5/5.
I send the settler towards the hill on the right past Giza. I think that the hill will give us the defense we will need immediately, without waiting for walls. We have the next hill for shields (eventually) and the CxxC from Helio is available and then CxxC from it towards the wheat will be a CxxC fit for it. Anyway I have road up towards it and will be able to road the tile next to it on the next turn and bring along some spears and cats and swords to clear the path. [18-3]

IBT:
the cost of the GA is starting to come home. 4 bows and a sword head for Alex. I send a cat towards it.

170BC:
Well it turns out they were 3 swords and a bow, ugh.
A spear is going up in Byblos, not sure if you want to switch it, but I think it could be good there and will be up sooner than a sword.
5/5 kills impi on the hill and I cover with a spear. (1-0).
4/5 and 3/4 kill archers (3-0) [21-3].

IBT:
I see Song moving a spear/settler towards the Nile (south of our hills). Zulu sends 4 units to Helio. Archer dies, redlined our spear on the hill. (1-0) [22-3]

150BC:
I get 3 more units to Helio, but the cat missed the impi so it can run off and pillage or attack. It cannot reach any of the empty towns.
Two units on the hill can be moved. The spear is 1/4 so need to go, maybe to the next hill. I was debating attacking the archer with the sword, but I did not want to expose it, if other units are near.
I pinged the bow at Alex, but did not attack it either. Again with no ability to move back into town, it could be killed. 3 swords and a bow would be in position to hit it. I cannot see covering it with all that is needed, but it could be done.

Of course it is not written that we would even beat the bow. The settler is on the hill and covered. I wanted to joint the 5/5 sword, but did not want to risk the 2 workers to the impi with only a damaged sword left to cover them.

Helio is using 2 mines, after the cats pops out, you may want to swap one to an irrigated tile to grow again. I wanted to get that cat out to use on the Zulu squad.

I did not turn down the research, so that needs to be done.
 
OK, I've got it. We have a few units coming on line in the next couple of turns that should allow us to move forward down in the south.

We'll see if any four-legged critters appear during my watch.

edit: Short update at turn 5: 20-1 kill ratio and we have our first MGL, Ramses. Will finish tomorrow night.
 
nobody has the GL yet? hope my advise was not wrong :eek:
anyway, way to go vmxa, nice play really and now with having our 1st army. things should get better and we should be able to hurt either Songhai or Zulu. I am inclined to send the army out to hurt them and find the resources we need, ie horses
 
Yeah an army. Not to worry ThERat, I was right there with you and thought we had no chance. Now I am just as sure we could have beat Hammy, but they are not the only civ in the game.

I do think I would have not been able to avoid some big problems without those extra swords from the wonder city. I needed every single unit.

Anyway it comes down to how many shields they are getting and I suspect it is less than 10. Nothing says they could not have switched the ToA to get it.

I wonder if we did not let them get the GA, if someone would have beat them to the ToA and then they would have switched. Only a mini cascade took place. Nothing we can do now other than kid butts.
 
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/43630/GR13_50_AD.SAV

Pre turn- Change Pi Ramses from sword to spear. At 7spt we lose 5 for a sword but only one on a spear. Science down to 10%, pottery still in 1.

IBT- Impi and 2 Zulu archers die against Heliopolis. (3-0) Our spear goes elite. Mysticism in 5. Babs bring up 3 swords and a bow next to Alexandria.

Turn 1 (130BC) Abydos founded. Cats frag two Songhai archers and elite swords do the rest. (5-0) Bab bow and two swords by Alexandia are killed. (8-0) Knock a hp off the remaining sword.

IBT- No combat. Babs not coming in numbers. Songhai are creeping up north with solo archers, so no real threat there.

Turn 2 (110BC) Cats take a couple points off a Zulu archer and vet sword kills it (9-0)
Kill impi and Bab bow near Heliopolis. (11-0)

Turn 3 (90BC) Quiet

IBT- No combat

Turn 4 (70BC) No action again, dancing around a little bit, drawing up a reserve to deal with Zulu archers.

IBT- We lose a defending spear at Byblios to Bab bow (11-1)

Turn 5 (50BC) Sword kills offending bow at Byblios (12-1). The three Songhai warriors kreeping along our western front come in range of 3 swords and a cat and are dispatched. (15-1). Undefended Bab settler south of Heliopolis provides us with two free workers (16-1). Kill four Zulu archers and an elite spear attack produces Ramses. :) (20-1). Lose two swords at Alexandria after a cat misfires and kill Bab bow and sword (22-3).

IBT Myst> Polytheism in 25.

Turn 6 (30BC) Vet sword kills Songhai archer in the west (23-3). Kill 1 impi in the south with elite sword (24-3)

IBT- No action

Turn 7 (10BC) Kill Songhai archer (25-3) Elite sword storms out of Byblios and kills Bab sword. (26-3) Cheops emerges from the battle as the latest Egyptian war hero. :) :) Vet sword apparently didn’t get the word he should kill a 2hp bow (26-4) Another sword does the trick. (27-4) Clear out another impi and archer (29-4).

IBT- The Battle of Alexandria rages on. Not once, not twice, but thrice our elite sword holds it’s ground against a Bab sword onslaught and Khufu joins his brother warriors as a war hero. :) :) :) (32-4)
Turn 8 (10AD) Send him to Thebes and rush HE. We don’t have 12 cities for a third army as it stands. Army of Alexandria kills Bab sword. (33-4) Sword in the west kills Songhai archer and promotes elite. (34-4)

Don’t try this at home, kids. Cats redline three impis and three spear attacks win. (37-4)

IBT- Bab bow lands by empty El Armana.

Turn 9 (30AD) Cat attack and elite sword autoraze Songhai town of Diara in the south. Rush vet spear and cat to El Armana. Two more cat/spear attacks yield two more Zulu archers (39-4) Sword army kills vet impi (40-4). Army of Alexandria kills Bab bow (41-4).

IBT- Lose our scouting sword in the west clean to a Songhai archer (41-5). And the Great Library comes in. Um, no, it wasn’t Babylon. Try a few thousand miles northeast. :cry:
We have a new player in North Africa, as yet unmet. The town of Cherbourg was founded.

Turn 10 (50AD) Asyut founded in the south. Cats redline Songhai spear and elite sword attacks. (42-5) Local villagers sing the praises of MGL Metuhotep. :band: He takes up residence in Thebes. Send two elite* swords to Thebes and position our Army of Memphis to cover our remaining settler who can build town #12. That will give us Army #3. And done.

I failed. Yes, I failed to find a single dang hoss. Where the heck are those critters? :mad: Even our enemies haven’t come up with one. I hang my head in shame with only the consolation of 4 MGLs created. :lol:

Next up- make sure you deal with that Bab bow just north of Heliopolis next turn. Army in Alexandria is red and needs a couple turns to heal. I have a couple granaries going just to speed up the pop in those towns. The military situation is that we are starting to get thinned out, so be wary of leaving too many towns vacant. Poly in 18. Not much we can do to speed it up.

So it was 19 turns that we had to get the Glib. Unfortunate, but we were right to cut our losses. Good news is it’s still just impi and archers in the south, so we can continue to press our advantage there. :goodjob:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/43630/GR13_50_AD.SAV
 
Glib.jpg.JPG
 
Good turn. 4 leaders is great. I got it. Hopefully the next one can be pentagon.

I may be fairly aggressive on my turns if we have the units. More cities will help us keep up in tech better and less cities in the south means less units coming at us.
 
great to get so many leaders. Hmm, I wish I could play some turns, but I have only internet access... :(
 
Now we are going to have to get up a lot of cities to allow many armies. At least there are some shield making hills now in our land.

We just did not have any real chance for the GLB with so poor of a shield producing land and the small research base. We probably should not even have tried. If only someone would have beaten the Babs to the ToA, they would have switched over that build and gotten the GLB.
 
I think the GLib is always worth going for at emp level or higher. You often get it. We just didn't get it this game.

Preturn: Looks good. I see I was thinking the wrong civ was south of us (Zulu are south). I want to try to hurt them on my turn if I can.
There was some MMing that could be done to make things a bit more efficient. Also because I want to launch an offensive, I changed over some builds to Mil.

The pink city is France by the way (I have the option on that prints the Civ name for cities). We can also light green city to the east but no indication who.

We still have a ways to go on Polytheism and then Monarchy before we can switch govts. One nice thing about having cities on the river will be we can get some over size 6 with more unit support in Monarchy so I think we should switch right away when we get there.

Oh I moved a unit south and discovered another civ with a city to the south. It is the teal color which might be Persia? I will avoid getting closer - I think it is a coastal town like France built rather than another civ in Africa.

Thinking some more about it, I am guessing that light green will be Greece and teal will be Persia. Egypt really starts with the early age UU civs nearby - Zulu, Greece, Persia...

70 AD: Build the 12th town and form the 3rd army. This army is heading south. One army was badly hurt - went from 9 to 3 hp attacking an archer!

IBT: Pentagon message.

90 AD: All sides holding though I need to send more to the west I think. I spot horses to the South!

110 AD: Another Leader!

130 AD: Rush Pentagon.

150 AD: Capture Zulu town, but our Army takes too much damage and I will probably have to retreat if any units show up.

IBT: Two swords show up.

170 AD: Retreat out of the town.

IBT: Town is captured back.

190 AD: Kill units in town and it auto-destructs.

IBT: Spot a French worker. I will have to declare war next turn.

210 AD: Declare war on France. Armies now all have 4 units. One army is healing in town, and one is still heading south. Build a town near the horses.

IBT: Also spot light Green (my guess is Greece)

230 AD: Yup its Greece. They have 2 settlers I will try to grab them if I can. About to road the Horses.

250 AD: Move onto Zulu Iron. Horses roaded and will build a war chariot next turn

IBT: Accidentally hit enter. Oh well at least I can be sure the Zulu Iron is pillaged. This is the only move I do.

Notes:
We met France and Greece on my turn. I got one leader which built pentagon in the middle of our lands (safest town)

We have 13 cities with one city at its spot in the south. One more just completed and a further one will complete in a turn. I think we need more to expand south, but we need defenders down there as well. So after the one that completes in one turn, we have 16 cities.

I would build a settler in the Capitol next We can be at 10 shields at size 7 with MM. We want as many towns as we can get so we need the settler.

Be careful not to go near the (probably) Persian city (teal border) in the southeast. Instead grab Zulu lands.

Keep the choke to Africa closed at all times! This is very important (it can be blocked by anything even a worker). The reason is that every civ will send its settlers at us if it is open. I made this mistake and that is why we met Greece. Babylon was also sending setters. If we leave it open we will probably lose our iron town as every civ meets us when the send settlers and the Iron town cannot stand against many civs.

5 or 6 turns from Polytheism. To discuss - When to have our GA - wait until Monarchy? I think waiting is probably stronger as the GA bonus often is lost as a despot and we are not that far away. So for tech - finish polytheism, head straight for Monarchy, revolt right away, Start GA right when Monarch is my vote.

Picture didn't work. It is attached in a post below.

GR13-AD250.jpg


The 260AD save
 
This screenie scared me, until I realized it was 1000BC. Yes GLB is worth a shot at this level with this many civs, but you have to have a credible chance or you waste shields that you could use to make troops.

The problem is it is very hard to be able to get a good gauge. I think we could safely say it was a long shot from the start. We have a shield poor land and would be pressed very hard in combat as we had no horses and iron was a time in coming.

Couple that with the difficulty we would face getting to Lit, it was a real strain. Not being able to trade before declaring is the straw that broke the back. If you remove any of those three legs (handicaps) we cold have a decent shot.

I should have spoke up when the first idea came up to start the palace. I chickened out and that was my fault. I doubt it would have been well recieved anyway.

I just do not have enough experience playing these special maps to be confident about what to expect.
 
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