GR18-AWM Genocide Variant vs 30 Civs.

[Greebley]

I am fine with the first 3 cases. You can also change or even rush builds and such if you want in reaction to enemy threat or for other reasons, I have done the first to get a wonder on the same turn as the tech. Pretty sure I have done the second on rare occasions. I could perhaps be convinced that the last (rushing) is exploitive, but if it is up to me alone, I would allow it.

So only purposeful double use of a tile is exploitive. Everything else you pay for. You are just reacting fastest possible.

 

[Mumpulus]

Ok, thanks for the quick answer. More power to the micromanager.

I have just finished turn 5, but would like to hold on to the game one more day. Things aren't at all in a state that I would like to turn over to anyone, not even the most experienced AW players . Furthermore, I'll be collecting two s next turn, can't miss out on that.

I could post a partial turn log already, but I want to keep it all as a surprise until the end. To keep everyone happy while I monopolize the game, I'll present some entertainment in the form of a "Quick Quiz. What has happened?" (after an idea of Melifluous in AG3).

A) We meet 2 other civs, including the Japanese, who are already sending some Samurai.
B) The Ottomans and Vikings are at war.
C) Our iron supply ran out, but we "discovered" a new one on Desertification mountain.
D) I have only lost one "unit" so far, but both the north and the south were so crowded that I couldn't get a single settler out. (But I've got two in place now as I mentioned.) As a consequence, our unit support is so high that we are presently at zero science.
E) The Dutch have obviously been building Swiss Mercs, so the one "unit" I have lost was actually an army, trying to raze Amsterdam.

 

[vmxa]

For sure I have mentioned doing the first three in this game already. I am not sure I even know what you mean on the last one,but it sounds like an exploit.

Dang, two more civs on our land mass?

Not surprised about the research, it will be rough without more towns.

 

[ThERat]

Mumpulus, to me it sounds like all 5 points did actually happen. But I also think, you found some new happies...that's what I gather fromt the

 

[Greebley]

I'll play the game:

A seems unlikely I would expect that it would take a while for a civ we met now to get to us. Not impossible though as Samuri can move 6 a turn with roads.

B is plausible

For C I think resources move rather than diminish or increase, so this seems possible.

For D I don't think science would drop to zero yet.

E is possible

So B,C or E.

I will guess C as it is the most notable (though less likely) and because ppl don't in general know that resources move (in fact I am not positive they do, but I think so).

Its probably a silly choice and I should have gone with B, but what the hey.

 

[vmxa]

Ok, I did not realize you may not have actually had those events, whew.
a) we could met two civs, especially if they came by boat. I sure hope this is not true.

b) could happen and I hope this one is true. In fact I would expect that had to happen right away or we would have had big issues from the Ottoman units.

c) Iron does run and it will frequently appear elsewhere and I have seen it land close to the original point. I have not seen it much in C3C. Lots ofd times in Vanilla.

D) I would be fine with that one and it is quite possible.

e) we have seen this many times, so not hard to accept. Again we had a leader ready, so it would just be a matter of filling it.

Are we to pick one of these, if so I go with B.

 

[Mumpulus]

@ThERat: the thingy has nothing to do with luxes, but everything with

Everyone who builds a city gets a

But ok, since you kind of asked,

And just as a little teaser to end with: I found an interesting settling spot

does indeed refer to a lux. Only 1 though, but I'll keep looking.

As far as my little quiz goes: the items in the list are not mutually exclusive; you're to guess if it happened or not for each item separately, not pick just one. I wasn't very clear on that.

to me it sounds like all 5 points did actually happen

So, 2 new enemies and a killer unit added, expansion and research to a halt and an army lost? You're quite the pessimist.

I don't think science would drop to zero yet.

and

D) I would be fine with that one and it is quite possible.

I would certainly not be fine with that, we desperately need to catch up. But Greebley's estimate is correct: although I had to lower science after I had to abandon Desertification on the IHT, we're not at zero research just yet.

I'll keep you in the dark on the other ones for now. But Rat, you can rest assured that the 3 bad ones didn't all happen.

 

[ThERat]

So, 2 new enemies and a killer unit added, expansion and research to a halt and an army lost? You're quite the pessimist.

If you would have spent all that time creating your quizzes playing the game your 10 would be long over

 

[vmxa]

Well, maybe being fine did not convey what I meant. Just that we had to lower either on the IT or the next one. Then a few more units and the lost of a town and another drop is well within expectation, so 10 or even 0 is not out of the question.

 

[Greebley]

I am thinking we need currency next. Markets win if we are running very high gold rates. It will also be turns of not building units and driving up unit costs. It sounds like we are already up to 80%? [Edit: actually 80% includes lux, so 60%?]

 

[vmxa]

A second lux will be a big help to us as well, especially in place where we will get to size 7. So I hope that isone of the things we are going to be told.

At 10 or 20% any tech will be a long run for us though. We do not have many libs, do we?

 

[Mumpulus]

If you would have spent all that time creating your quizzes playing the game your 10 would be long over

I wish. That quiz took me five minutes, which is about the same time I spent on deciding what to do with a single unit at several moments during my turns.

In any case, I will now reveal the answers to the quiz: none of those events occurred (lame, I know).

I have finished only 6 turns, but they have been quite eventful. I'll start posting my report right now and turn the game over. Should be done in an hour or so.

 

[vmxa]

Thanks for the entertainment, a bit of a change of pace. Not lame, but I suspect we all wanted to see if we got it.

 

[Mumpulus]

0) 860AD
At Desertification: rHorse kills redlined rArcher. Abandon the town. Our gpt drops by 6.
At Wonsan: ping Dutch spear and kill it with *Horse. We have quite a few troops available there, so I move a roading crew forward covered by single units. We may loose a spear here, but I think it's worth it to push forward.
At Chinje: vSword kills redlined Merc, vSword kills redlined rJav.
At Chonju: ping a Viking sword
At Teagu: 3rd army kills 2hp Spanish rSpear. I could have killed an archer there too, but I decide to wait and see how the front plays there before moving out the army.
At Cheju: cats go 3/5 to redline the 2 Otto units on the mountains next to the ruins of Desertification. [5-0, 0e, 0p]

The army in Chinje is pretty healthy and has full movement, so I decide to do some exploring:

Like I said, looks like a nice place to settle, even despite all that jungle.

Do some MM.

IT
At Hyangsan, our eSpear retreats an eGS.
Near Wonsan, our roading-crew covering eSpear dies to a Sumerian vSword.
The Ottos land 2 units and Vikes land 1 unit in between Paegam and Haeju. [5-1, 0e, 0p]

Seoul: Swordsman > Temple
Inch'on: Swordsman > Swordsman
Kaesong: Temple > Worker
Haeju: Catapult > Catapult

1) 870AD
Rush temple in Seoul with our leader. Libraries are cheaper for us to build than temples, and I'll probably start one in Seoul next.

I think a Sumerian unit went poof during the IT.

At Iron City: redline Viking rSword and kill it with eSword
At Paegam: redline landed Viking rSword and kill it with vSword, yellowline Otto rSpear and loose vSword on it, second vSword kills it and promotes, eSword kills the 2hp rSword. Landing cleared.
At Some Song: redline Sumerian rMDI and kill it with vSword. Hittite and Dutch spears are blocking for us, thanks.
At Hyangsan: vSword kills 1hp eGS clean, vSword kills redlined Hittite rSpear clean.
At Wonsan: vSword kills 1hp Sumerian vSword
At Cheju: cats go 4/6 on the Ottos, 5th army kills two rSwords
At Taejon: cats go 2/3 on the Dutch, vSword dies on 3hp vSword, rHorse kills 2hp rSword
At Chinje: redline Mayan vSword, 4th army kills it
At Taegu: 3rd army kills two Spanish archers [19-3, 2e, 1p]

Switch Chonju to worker.

IT
At Taegu, 3rd Army kills Spanish rArcher
At Cheju, 5th Army kills 2 Otto rSwords
Vikings land rSpear north of Pusan [22-3, 2e, 1p]

Seoul: Temple > Worker
P'yongyang: Swordsman > Horseman
Pusan: Swordsman > Spearman
Nampo: Swordsman > Swordsman
Chonju: Worker > Catapult

2) 880AD
Found Suwon Again , start walls.

In between Chinje, Haeju and Some Song, there's a stack of 3 rGSs: cats go 4/5, eSword kills one, vSword dies on the second, eSword kills the third.
At Taegu: ping Spanish vArcher and rSpear. eHorse kills rArcher.
At Chinje: cats go 7/8 on a 3-unit Mayan stack, vSword dies on 2hp vJav and promotes it, vSword then kills it, move 3rd army in and kill 2hp vSword, move 4th army out to cover workers
At Pusan: 1st army kills landed spear while on its way north. It looses 4hp in the process.
At Taejon: cats go 2/3 on Dutch rArcher, vSword kills it, rHorse dies on redlined vSword
At Cheju: cats go 4/10 on Otto units, vSword kills 2hp rSpear, vSword kills 2hp rSword, eHorse retreats on 2hp rSword, *Horse kills 2hp rSword
At Suwon Again: eSword kills Sumerian rArcher, 2nd army kills another, moves forward and pillages a road
At Some Song: cats go 2/2 on Dutch vSpear [34-4, 6e, 1p]

The big Mayan stack of 5 vJavs and 4 vSwords is next to Chinje now, with a 15hp army and a vSpear inside. Haeju is empty, and shielded from a redlined GS by single swords that killed units. A Celt spear will probably continue inward, but shouldn't cause trouble. Pinged Dutch spear, and blocked Hittite spear. The east is much more quiet now. The south is manageable.

IT
At Cheju, our eSpear defends against a rSword
Mayan stack moves on, and 3 new swords approach
Approaching Sumerians split north/south at Nagsu; they have 4 MDIs and an archer at Some Song now [35-4, 7e, 1p]

Seoul: Worker > Library
Cheju: Spearman > Spearman
Iron City: Settler > Settler
Sumeriwon: Catapult > Catapult
Taegu: Walls > Catapult

3) 890AD
Found Resertification, start walls. Since I abandoned Desertification before, I won't claim a Gain 7gpt.

At Resertification: ping healing Dutch vSword, vSword kills it and promotes.
At Taejon: cats go 1/3 to yellowline a fresh Dutch rSword, I take a chance and kill it with a vSword, hoping that there are no units behind it. There turn out to be none.
Near Suwon Again: cat misses, but *Horse kills 2hp Sumerian rArcher anyway.
At Chonju: 5 cats are just enough to redline a Viking vSword, although it's on a mountain, I decide to attack with a vSword, and he wins clean. Cover with eSpear.
At Taegu: yellowline a Zulu vSword, vSword kills him. eHorse has to kill healthy rWarrior to avoid pillaging.
At Chinje: start work on the big Mayan stack. Cats do 6/8, 1st army kills 2 vSwords, going down to 7hp after an internal promotion. 3rd army kills last healthy vSword, and doesn't use its second attack (at 14hp). 4th army kills 2 of the fresh vSwords, ending up at 10hp. 6 Javs and 2 Swords remain for now.
At Some Song: cats only do 3/8 on the Sumerian stack, vSword dies on healthy rMDI, promoting it, but taking off 1 hp. eSword dies on that same MDI, redlining it. Move in 5 units, to fight the 5 Sumerians still there (only 1 healthy though, the rArcher).
At Nampo: cat hits Celt rSpear, eSword kills it
At Cheju: cats go 4/4 at first, 5th army kills redlined rSpear, 3hp *Horse kills redlined rSword. Other cats then do 5/8, to ping 3 of the 4 rSwords and 2 rSpears. There are 15 Otto units visible, 9 of them wounded, and 4 out of range. [49-6, 9e, 2p]

2nd army in the east rests this turn.

Great, Wonsan lost a shield to corruption thanks to the founding of Resertification. Fix that swapping tiles right up to Chinje.

Research to 10%, Poly still in 1.

IT
At Cheju, an rSword attacks our eSpear, and

At Some Song, 3hp vMDI kills our eSpear, another 3hp vMDI dies on our vSpear, promoting it [51-7, 10e, 4p, 1l]

Polytheism comes in, start on currency

Wonsan: Settler > Settler
Pusan: Spearman > Temple
Ulsan: Swordsman > Swordsman
Some Song: Swordsman > Spearman
Taejon: Spearman > Spearman
Kaesong: Worker > Worker

Sumerians complete Sun Tzu in Ur.

4) 900AD
Rush temple in Pusan with the leader.

This is the situation in the north:

One issue is the zone northwest of Some Song, which has been infiltrated by the Sumerians (slow movers) and that Zulu Impi. I can't allow our roads to be pillaged, but I also can't attack it, because I don't have a horse there and a slow mover would be exposed to 3 attackers. So I'll block the Impi. I would also like a road in that zone, workers are also in our settler stack.
The other issue is that I want to move our settler into place right now, and then attack the Mayan town of Quiriguá just north of there the turn after. I'll need two armies for that operation. Chirje needs its army for protection, and there's not much hope of moving in reinforcements during this turn or next turn. Then again, Some Song has a few attackers available, and the eastern GSs are blocked by the Sumerians.

Ok, here goes:
At Some Song: cats go 2/4 on the Dutch vSpear, I stop there because I need to ping some more, vSword kills him clean. Cats go 1/2 on the Sumerian vSpear, good enough for now. Another cat redlines the MDI to the north, buy some more time. Final cat moves to Suwon Again.
At Suwon Again: ping Celt rSpear on our improved tile to the west, other cat misses.

At Chirje: cats go 2/2 to redline the loose vJav, vSword kills it; cats go 3/6 to redline the loose vSword
At Taegu: 2 cats miss Spanish rSpear, so we'll probably loose the improvements there
Near Haeju: I have 1 cat left to ping the Impi

South of Kaesong: ping Viking vSword, eSword kills it.
At Resertification: ping retreating units some more, eHorse kills 2hp vSword, 5th army kills 2hp eSword and 1hp rSpear.
At Cheju: I was contemplating whether I should let the rSwords attack from the mountain, our try to redline the 4 units there and attack myself. When the cats go 1/5 to ping the single spear covering, the question answers itself: I leave the swords healthy and take my chances on defense (fortified vets in walled hills town, so 82%).

In the east, I ponder what to do with the 2nd army (this is one of those thought processes that took longer to complete than that little quiz ). There are only spears and 3 Dutch swords in the vicinity, which we should be able to handle, so I press forward. Just explore a bit this turn... [57-7, 12e, 4p, 1l]

 

[Mumpulus]

The view at the end of this turn:

 

[Mumpulus]

Switch Paegam to Horseman.

Research can only go to 20% at sustainable pace, Currency is in 42 turns now.

IT
That spear near Some Song is actually Mayan
At Cheju, 2 Otto rSwords die to our vSpears, promoting one.
The Spanish land an archer near Ulsan, and the spear that I thought would pillage actually moves on
Lots of Sumerians moving towards empty Hyangsan now... [59-7, 12e, 5p, 1l]

P'yongyang: Horseman > Worker
Pusan: Temple > Horseman
Hyangsan: Catapult > Catapult
Paegam: Horseman > Swordsman

5) 910AD
First thing's first: found Dyes Town , start barracks, which I'll try to rush soon. Lux down to 10%, science up to 30%, currency in 25 turns now at +2gpt.

2nd army kills redlined Sumerian vMDI that had retreated past Rotterdam. In position now to start attacking next turn.
At Sumeriwon: cats go 1/3 on Viking rSpear, vSword kills it
Near Ulsan: vSword kills the landed Spanish rArcher
At Resertification: redline and kill rSpear with vSword

At Hyangsan: redline Hittite spear, move in horse to defend, will need it next turn
At Suwon Again: cats go 2/3 on Hittite rSpear, vSword kills it clean. Cats do badly on the 3 Dutch vSwords, so I decide to defend the forest instead, at slighty better odds, but still only around 63%.

At Some Song: cats go 3/6 on Dutch vSword, eSword kills him clean. Cat pings Sumerian rArcher, 3hp *Horse kills him

At Chinje: cats go 5/5 on rGS and vGS, vSword kills one, cats then go 0/3 on Mayan vSword/vJav pair, which complicates matters considerably. Start pillaging control: vSword retreats Impi, and is exposed but healthy and on jungle; quite a few attackers in range though. 1st army kills redlined GS and moves on the road south of Dyes Town. Healthy 3rd army moves next to Mayan town.

At Taegu: cats go 2/2 on rGS, vHorse kills him. [69-7, 13e, 5p, 1l]

Whip unhappiness in Wonsan has finally ended. Now I know why I don't whip often.

 

[Mumpulus]

The situation at the end of this turn:

The yellowlined GSs will heal, and probably attack, but I can't kill them without exposing units, so I'm hoping for the best on defense.

 

[Mumpulus]

IT
At Chinje, Mayan vSword kills vSpear clean, vJav goes red but kills vSpear
One of the rGSs dies on our vSword in the jungle, the other on our vSword in Chinje promoting it
At Cheju, 2 Otto rSwords die on our eSpear
Vikings land a vSword at Haeju
Sumerians all seem to be moving around toward our eastern flanc now, which buys us precious time in the north
The Dutch move 2 attackers out of Rotterdam in anticipation of our attack [73-9, 15e, 5p, 1l]

P'yongyang: Worker > Horseman
Nampo: Swordsman > Swordsman

6) 920AD
Found Hamhung , start walls
Found Viki , start catapult

12gpt gained, hired scientists in both towns for lack of (sufficient) growth, saved 6 turns on research. Increase science to 40% for 2 more turns saved. We're at 24 towns, next army cap reached.

At Quiriguá, 3rd army kills 2 rJavs:

At Rotterdam, 2nd army kills 2 vSpears, but a rSpear remains. Army is down to 6hp. With 2 Sumerian MDIs nearby, I hope that's enough.

At Hamhung: cats go 2/3 on Dutch rArcher, can't risk attacking though
At Wonsan: eSword kills redlined Hittite rSpear, cats go 3/6 on Dutch vSword, vHorse kills him
At Resertification: cats go 2/2 on Otto rSpear, can't attack
At Cheju: cats go 3/4 to redline 2 rSpears, vSword and *Horse kill them. I spot 15 Otto workers north of Denizli
At Haeju: cats go 3/4 on landed vSword, eHorse kills him. Cats go 2/2 on vJav, eSword kills him clean.
At Chinje: cats go 1/5 on Mayan vSword, eSword kills him anyway. eSword kills redlined vJav. I feel lucky, so vSword attacks redlined Impi in jungle, looses 1 hp but promotes. Should be ok.
Near Some Song: redline Dutch vSpear, but can't attack [86-9, 19e, 6p, 1l]

1st and 4th armies stay put around Dyes Town, because I don't dare to attack healthy units on jungle. The armies are our only defense there, can't risk damaging them. We'll be able to start moving cats over starting next turn.

MM notes

• P'yongyang: Look, I made an MM error while calculating growth. It will pick up the extra shield for the horse in 3 turns on growth in the IT.
• Wonsan: Will pick up to required 15th shield on growth for a settler in 2.
• Ulsan: was messed up by the landing, so food will not be exactly right. Use the mined mountain to make up for missing shields if necessary.
• Some Song: can hire a scientist next turn (not this turn), and pick up the 4th shield again on growth. Make sure Wonsan has a shield-tile to grow into though, more important.
• Taejon: can fire its scientist after the current build for extra spt.
• Kaesong: I don't like +1fpt situations, which is why I put this town in its present configuration.
• Haeju: can also use the rubble tile west of Some Song for a shield, so should be ok to finish the build no matter what that Jav does.
• Resertification: may as well switch to a different build; I don't think we'll let anyone attack there.
• Dyes Town: we also don't want attacks there, but can't attack out either, so we need a healthy army in there at all times. That why I think barracks first is better. I was thinking of merging in some workers and than whip it.
• Viki: +1fpt, so I'd keep the scientist until we have a harbor.

Tactical notes coming up next...

 

[Mumpulus]

Current issues:

• Dyes Town: a bit of a tricky situation, even though the big Mayan stack moved into the town 3 tiles west during the last IT. They were all 3/4hp, so they'll be back soon and bent on pillaging. There are a few Impi's around. The roaded tile they're on right now will probably be pillaged, but it's non-essential. That's why I wouldn't risk attacking the healthy units on jungle tiles. Just wait until we have some artillery support.
• The Viking front: very easy to manage, it barely saw any action, and we have plenty of cats and swords to handle what's coming.
• The eastern front: also pretty manageable for now, while the Sumerians are sending their units in nice little chunks.
• The Ottoman front: I've been letting them attack at Cheju, and I think that's the way to do it. I swapped out the Polytheistic Spearman with a fresh elite, so leader chances on defense there. Keep Sumeriwon garrisoned, and Resertification empty or quasi-empty, and I think we'll have ourselves a kill zone.
• Naval invasions: I think most if not all galleys in view right now are empty. But there's a steady stream, both from the Spanish and the Vikings.

My suggestions for the future, for the military:

• In the north: after razing Rotterdam, focus on the cultured Spanish city in the west first, then go back to the Dutch. Allow enemy units to infiltrate if it saves army turns, you can kill them more easily if they're behind our lines. We just need to find a solution for keeping our road to the dyes. After founding pink dot, that'll become much easier.
• In the south: the 5th army was moved a bit in anticipation of the Sumerian approach, but I think we'll be fine even without it. It'll heal in the IT, and I would then use it to raze Breda and the other Dutch town near Hamhung. After that, I would go for a razing campaign with the Vikings, especially their coastal cities. They've not been medieval for very long, so if we do this soonish, we may never see berserks. The Otto's after that will avoid sipahis. The next army should probably also go south, the one after that north again, or east (Sumerians are over there I think).

Suggestions for the future, economy/research:

• Currency is well underway, and will pick up after founding a few more towns. I think though that by the time we've researched it, we'll have more towns, hence less unit support costs, and it'll be better to build libs. Either way, we have very bad lands for commerce, so neither libs nor markets will do us much good.
• Therefore, I think MM after currency sounds nice, so we can start some fishing villages. The Spanish and Dutch rivers will also help of course.

One more MM note: I continuously micromanaged in the Paegam-Nampo-Pusan triangle, swapping tiles almost every turn. Among them, there are many turns to be gained on builds. I think it's worth the extra effort.

I've marked the towns I would throw away. Here's my proposal for a dotmap:

So I played just one extra turn tonight, but I think it was worth it, because I felt the situation was much more messy the previous turn.

> Save <

 

[Mumpulus]

I almost forgot: + + + / 6 turns = , right?

I'm starting to feel just a bit more optimistic again about this game. Let's continue to settle aggressively before swiss mercs or knights arrive. Keeping Wonsan on settlers all the time provides a nice rhythm for the north I think. Use armies for forward operations, single units for defense.

The south could probably use another settler-producer, or even two more. The northwest may also need one if we find that the Spanish area is soft (they still lack iron, so it probably will be).

The jungle and swamps will be a huge problem, especially when knights arrive. I think we've got no guarantee at all of being able to push through in time, so I would hold the Dyes Town - Pink Dot line, clear jungle in front of these towns if possible, and settle northeast (Dutch area) and northwest (Spanish area).

And now I'm going to get some ...