Grand Strategy Thread
- Thread starter General_W
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Capturing the capital is something a little different from razing it, right?
Can someone run a Mutliplayer sim, just to be certain?
Can someone run a Mutliplayer sim, just to be certain?
donsig
Low level intermediary
Since we're on the verge of shifting our alliance I thought it would be a good time to dust off this thread and get some discussion going about how we plan to prevent GONG's 100k victory and the GLET posed by BABE. A successful invasion of GONG would solve both problems. It's apparent we can't do this until marines and bombers (and we still don't know the disposition of rubber or oil). But who will undertake this mission? the SCIAA partners? The Brain Trust? One country on it's own? What size force would we need to succeed? I'd like to hear the Council's thoughts on this.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't we simply have to raze a single culturally rich city? Wouldn't that be likely to set them back severely?
I think a modest razing sortie would be more desireable than mounting a massive, full-fledged, continent-wide invasion force.
I think a modest razing sortie would be more desireable than mounting a massive, full-fledged, continent-wide invasion force.
No it does not. The accumulated culture persists (Maybe like the Culture of Atlantis still persists
). It only stops generating more for that single town.But when You got one town, you'll likely face little resistance for the next...
But the 100k-threat is not evident these days (~80 turns to go). GLET is. It becomes even more difficult as it is no coastal town (?) GONG will have the chance to gift it - unless we enter with Marines, Cavs and a worker force to lay rails (If we got coal, Iron or a harbor)...
With the trading system we might get a make-up turn to take it before BABE get's all the techs. GONG gifts, BABE receives (or takes) and then they need to keep it under control for another turn I recon. BABE won't have 20 muskets next to the town just in case, right?
We need to know where the TGL town is or we cannot make good plans!
We could ask FREE if they already mapped GONG's southern coast.
If the GL town only has 1 town between it and a coastal town then we may not need coal,iron and workers as I would assume gong have a fairly tight build, can we steal a map with an embassy or do we need a spy?
It would otherwise be best to target a harbor town close to the core and hope to have retained a harbor in order to send in workers for a classic cavalry railroad intrusion. By the way if they are thinking ahead they can slow down a cavalry roll by planting strategically placed forests, in fact they could completely surrounding the GL town with forests.
Something that really scares me is the possibility that they do the GLET shortly before we research marines, they could have spent all this time building a massive cavalry invasion force, free, saber and ourselves would already have a complete rail net making us vulnerable to a one turn sweep.
It would otherwise be best to target a harbor town close to the core and hope to have retained a harbor in order to send in workers for a classic cavalry railroad intrusion. By the way if they are thinking ahead they can slow down a cavalry roll by planting strategically placed forests, in fact they could completely surrounding the GL town with forests.
Something that really scares me is the possibility that they do the GLET shortly before we research marines, they could have spent all this time building a massive cavalry invasion force, free, saber and ourselves would already have a complete rail net making us vulnerable to a one turn sweep.
zyxy
Warmongering Fool
I thought FREE wanted to attack GONG. That solves two problems.
donsig
Low level intermediary
So they say. Can we see any indication that they've made any preparations (other than building Hoover)?
donsig
Low level intermediary
If they're waiting for us to give MT then they sure aren't in a hurry since they haven't said a thing about it. Could it be that they have no plans for attacking before marines and bombers? Can we tell how close GONG is to 100k?
We can and we do in the Played Turns thread.
One could look up when they entered Feudalism so we can calculate when most of their culture buildings double their output...
But at the current stage this is rather a prospect than a threat.
I'd expect them to need another ~80 turns.
It will be even a close race with our space bet - FREE will probably beat them by a century...
One could look up when they entered Feudalism so we can calculate when most of their culture buildings double their output...
But at the current stage this is rather a prospect than a threat.
I'd expect them to need another ~80 turns.
It will be even a close race with our space bet - FREE will probably beat them by a century...
donsig
Low level intermediary
Well, this does not seem good at all. Are you suggesting we have to also do something about FREE to slow them down or is it a given that their capitol will have to be destroyed? After reading this I'm starting to think we should not trade with FREE at all (luxes or techs). But we must wait and see where the rubber and oil are.
If it looks like FREE can launch before GONG reaches 100k then FREE has no reason to attack GONG, do they?
I guess there isn't a chance we can launch a century before ~80 turns?
If it looks like FREE can launch before GONG reaches 100k then FREE has no reason to attack GONG, do they?
I guess there isn't a chance we can launch a century before ~80 turns?
Good point...
Maybe that's why they claimed to do it and why they delay the attack.
We should talk to SABER about that, I guess chamnix has an interesting opinion on that.
I think this is a really exciting game, multiple threat(d)s, I cannot see why others get bored... 
The only thing preventing me from completely freaking out
is the threat that BABE can ruin the game in the twinkling of an eye
I completely agree - There is so much going on it's almost difficult to stay on top of it all. Maybe that's why some people get bored - if you're not paying attention all the time, you'll never catch up.
There is another way to slow down Free:
Declare war on them
They would be forced to build some military to block their shores - the other side of the coin is that then that military could be used against us!
General_W
Councilor & Merlot Noble
I've been wracking my brain for an idea to slow FREE down – finally came up with an idea – thought I'd toss it out here.
What if we faked a 3rd BABE invasion?
I know it's not a great plan – but if we could slow FREE's research down, maybe we could get Saber the time they need to beat them?
I chatted with Dutchfire this morning – Saber still hasn't completely made up their mind. They think they can get ToE done on turn 172.
(If FREE does 4 turn research with a perfectly timed prebuild, they'll be done with the ToE on turn 168 – if we can slow down their research by just 4 turns… then Saber plays before FREE does and we win.)
I know this team doesn't like dishonesty… (me either!)… but it's not like we'd be lying and stealing… after all, we'll give the money back! So really it's just lying
If FREE asks for screenshots, I could probably fake some.
Thoughts?
I'm just throwing out desperate ideas here.
What if we faked a 3rd BABE invasion?
We tell FREE that BABE is sailing a stack of galleys close to us – and we're not totally sure if they're intending to invade us, or just trying to pull our boats away from the bombing.
Even though our MAAP III isn't formalized yet, we'd like to ask them to send 75 gold per turn – and we'll return 100% of the money if BABE fails to land after 10 turns.
Even though our MAAP III isn't formalized yet, we'd like to ask them to send 75 gold per turn – and we'll return 100% of the money if BABE fails to land after 10 turns.
I know it's not a great plan – but if we could slow FREE's research down, maybe we could get Saber the time they need to beat them?
I chatted with Dutchfire this morning – Saber still hasn't completely made up their mind. They think they can get ToE done on turn 172.
(If FREE does 4 turn research with a perfectly timed prebuild, they'll be done with the ToE on turn 168 – if we can slow down their research by just 4 turns… then Saber plays before FREE does and we win.)
I know this team doesn't like dishonesty… (me either!)… but it's not like we'd be lying and stealing… after all, we'll give the money back! So really it's just lying
If FREE asks for screenshots, I could probably fake some.
Thoughts?
I'm just throwing out desperate ideas here.
donsig
Low level intermediary
That's an interesting idea General. Are you sure you wouldn't like playing Diplomacy? My gut reaction to the idea is that if FREE talks to BABE then the gig is up right away. The fact that FREE talked to BABE about a trade recently makes me think FREE wouldn't hesitate to check our story.
Perhaps we should take heed of what peter grimes said. Instead of investing 1000g and 600 shields into ToE we (SABER and the Council) should invest that in an invasion force and sack FREE. Could we leverage the power gained from that conquest into ridding ourselves of the GONG 100k and BABE GLET threats? Then we race SABER into space or domination of the planet?
Perhaps we should take heed of what peter grimes said. Instead of investing 1000g and 600 shields into ToE we (SABER and the Council) should invest that in an invasion force and sack FREE. Could we leverage the power gained from that conquest into ridding ourselves of the GONG 100k and BABE GLET threats? Then we race SABER into space or domination of the planet?
Can't we simply outresearch FREE? If we team up with SABER, we should reach the MT long before FREE. I don't really see the problem. 
Oh, and I believe the good General isn't declining Diplomacy due to lack of interest, but due to lack of time. He did say he loved the game, which I think we all can see why.
Oh, and I believe the good General isn't declining Diplomacy due to lack of interest, but due to lack of time. He did say he loved the game, which I think we all can see why.
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