Great Leader Usage: Richthoffen

[eyrei]

Originally posted by Octavian X
If we are to build the FP, I would never place it in a far northern city like Kyoto. We should place it in a city more central, but along the western front. Kells and Octavinium would be the best choices IMHO.

I agree.

 

[Donovan Zoi]

@eyrei and Octavian X-- With all due respect, to put the FP in Octavinium or Kells would be short-sighted at best. For maximum benefit, the best FP candidate should be one that has production and commerce reduced to 1 due to corruption. Kells is on the upswing(prod:3, comm:2) because it is slightly influenced by Bavaria. I am sure Octavinium has even more but didn't really check because it should not be an option.

Remember when Babylon and Russia came in and settled in or near the SW Province? Many of us had it in our minds that their time would come. On the other hand, India has never wronged us. And we should think twice about tossing their loyalty aside. A war with Babylon and/or Russia would yield cities that would lack the influence of an FP placed in Kells. To place the FP in Kells or worse, Octavinium, would be our way of saying " I have no quarrel with Babylon, feel free to foul our lands as long as you wish. We would rather head south to destroy our loyal friends."

So guys, it would help to think of Kyoto as WEST, not NORTH.

 

[Octavian X]

My reasoning is that even after we go after these nations, more of our conquests will be to our immeadiate west. Besides, what will a Kyoto location do for our well established cities in the center of our nation? They will undoubtedly suffer, as these cities are most likely to become our most productive.

Think about a the possible situation we go after India or China, both nations to the south. Considering THEM as possible targets, Kyoto would make a terrible location.

 

[Donovan Zoi]

@Octavian-- by centralizing our capital a bit more(say Bremershaven or Tlaxcala) we can facilitate the FP in Kyoto. This seemed to be a popular plan when we got Richthoffen so I based my selection accordingly. The decision to use Kyoto as our FP site will be ideal once our capital is moved south a bit. There is much support to do this so I would like to pave the way for this to happen by not having the FP too close.

 

[Strider]

I think the Long-term benefits far out weighs the short-term one's. Building Sistane will almost guaratee happiness in all of are cities. "We Love the King Days" would probley be common. Also if we don't get Sistane now, then we will never get it. The FP we can get anytime we want to. Go for Sistane. Who cares about the short-term benefits..... We've lasted this long without the FP (and Sistane) we can last a few more years. That extra happiness will come in really useful in any wars to come.

 

[Stuck_as_a_Mac]

Viva Capella Sistena!!

 

[Shaitan]

The long term benefits of the Sistine Chapel are too far away. It will be many, many chats before we could possibly be in a position to benefit from it. Without a Forbidden Palace we will be in a position where we have to purchase cathedrals to even get the Sistine's effect.

In the meantime, we have an immediate and pressing need for a Forbidden Palace to help control our massive corruption, build our infrastructure, and maintain our military supremacy.

 

[Strider]

Originally posted by Shaitan
The long term benefits of the Sistine Chapel are too far away. It will be many, many chats before we could possibly be in a position to benefit from it. Without a Forbidden Palace we will be in a position where we have to purchase cathedrals to even get the Sistine's effect.

In the meantime, we have an immediate and pressing need for a Forbidden Palace to help control our massive corruption, build our infrastructure, and maintain our military supremacy.

Like I said..... Screw the short-term benefits..... Even it they are REALLY long-term benefits Sistane will turn out to be much better in the long-run.... We've lasted this long with this corruption.... adn actually I think this corruption isn't really to bad.

 

[Shaitan]

We are an agressive, expansionistic, military machine. Our entire strategy stresses short term benefits in support of long term goals. In any case, the FP has just as much long term benefit as the Sistine Chapel, if not more.

 

[Strider]

Originally posted by Shaitan
We are an agressive, expansionistic, military machine. Our entire strategy stresses short term benefits in support of long term goals. In any case, the FP has just as much long term benefit as the Sistine Chapel, if not more.

The offer the same benefits, just with one differance. We can build the FP any time we want to. Sistane is a once in a life time thing..... We can either build one and get one.... or build one and get two.

 

[GenMarshall]

Well, we should build the Sistane. We should rush build the SC first since it is a Major wonder while the FP is just a Small Wonder and we can build it any time .

 

[Goonie]

Yes, but the problem is that the good sites for the FP have some much corruption that it will take forever to build!

 

[Strider]

Originally posted by Goonie
Yes, but the problem is that the good sites for the FP have some much corruption that it will take forever to build!

A tatic of mine:

Build a courthouse in the city BEFORE you build the FP.

 

[Shaitan]

I'm amazed at the lack of urgency to get the FP up in an Emperor level game. I like the Sistine too but the FP is a game breaker. Sistine is not.

 

[Cyc]

Right now I would agree to the FP in Kyoto. If we use my earlier plan and use the GL to rush the SC, then we have to build the FP. That means we'd have to build it fairly close to the Palace to get it done in a respectable time. Then we'd have to use the next GL to rush the Palace in another city (such as Kyoto). Either way, we're using a GL to rush a Palace. (BTW, strider, adding the length of time to build a courthouse before the building of the FP would be unbearable for the minute benefit the courthouse would bring.) So, if we're going to rush a Palce either way, let's rush the FP now. The increased production and commerce brought on by the loss of corruption would be comparable to a mini-Golden Era. Only this mini-Golden Era would never end. True, once we used the GL in this fashion, we would be stuck with our decision, but it's hard to go wrong when instituting an FP. Even if we miss the "perfect" location (maybe due to a future war) by 5 Land Tiles, it will still have one helluva good impact on our Nation. With production and commerce up 100% we will not only be able to build the improvements necessary to increase our happyness and Culture, but we will be able to bump up the Science slider later in the game.

FP in Kyoto.

 

[Goonie]

I concer your excellency! (Spelling of concer?Its the civ2 thing...)

 

[eyrei]

I give only minimal consideration to the workable land of a city when deciding to build the FP there. The singular factor in this decision is its location in my current and future empire. Again, Kyoto is way too far north to reduce corruption in many of our current cities which could actually contribute to the empire now instead of cities that are not yet ours. Kyoto is a border city for gods sake!!!

Strider, the really long term benefits of the Sistine chapel are actually almost nonexistent. Because of our dense build, most cities are going to max out their workable tiles in the industrial age, and end up with a few entertainers, because there is nowhere for them to go. This will more than compensate for lacking double power cathedrals. Plus, long term benefits do us no good if we are an empire of two cities that the AI has graciously allowed us to keep...military strength is key, and the FP now would greatly improve our military productivity.

 

[Cyc]

OK, eyrei. I hear you. So specifically name the city you want to place it in and then tell us how many cities your going to place in the Gem Mountains. I can see Serenity as a southern city, but plexenberg is worse than Kyoto because the mountains act as the "border" you complain about in the Kyoto example.

 

[Strider]

Originally posted by Cyc
Right now I would agree to the FP in Kyoto. If we use my earlier plan and use the GL to rush the SC, then we have to build the FP. That means we'd have to build it fairly close to the Palace to get it done in a respectable time. Then we'd have to use the next GL to rush the Palace in another city (such as Kyoto). Either way, we're using a GL to rush a Palace. (BTW, strider, adding the length of time to build a courthouse before the building of the FP would be unbearable for the minute benefit the courthouse would bring.) So, if we're going to rush a Palce either way, let's rush the FP now. The increased production and commerce brought on by the loss of corruption would be comparable to a mini-Golden Era. Only this mini-Golden Era would never end. True, once we used the GL in this fashion, we would be stuck with our decision, but it's hard to go wrong when instituting an FP. Even if we miss the "perfect" location (maybe due to a future war) by 5 Land Tiles, it will still have one helluva good impact on our Nation. With production and commerce up 100% we will not only be able to build the improvements necessary to increase our happyness and Culture, but we will be able to bump up the Science slider later in the game.

FP in Kyoto.

1) Are cities are not flooding in corruption as you say. The production in them is pretty good....

2) A mini-golden age? I doubt it.... 20gpt might be the most we get out of it. We have far to few cities.

3) Estimated (without looking at the save) it might take 30 turns to complete the FP..... It might seem like along time for you, but to me it's not.

 

[Bill_in_PDX]

I think that if we use the leader for anything other than the FP we are making a huge mistake.

I like the SC as well as anyone, but we are a long, long ways from building Cathedrals in anywhere but our core cities.

Our best route to citizen happiness with be conquest and trading for luxuries, and building marketplaces to fuel the war machine.