Great Library boost ... what am I not getting?

[Sascha77]

Either I'm too dumb or the GL is placed way too far down the tech-tree.

I just started a new game, trying to beeline towards Recorded History to see if there's a way to actually benefit from the tech-boosts the GL offers. I'm currently researching Recorded History and did the math on the GL: Turns out that by the time I could finish the wonder, I'll be out of the Classical era anyway (with all "boostable" tech researched manually).

What am I missing here?


S.

 

[Frank327]

Nothing, it might be useful if you're getting lots of culture to get the great library but otherwise its main use is the great works of writing slots.

 

[Esperr]

Well its a common complaint already that wonders require way to much production anyway, the GL is a casualty of that. However I find myself trying to grab it mid to late game for the two great work slots. You run out of slots so fast.

 

[Frank327]

Yeah if you want to grab a wonder, it seems like Stonehenge/hanging gardens are the best bets purely because of how cheap they are to build compared to wonders one era later. Great library already costs more than twice as much production as hanging gardens/Stonehenge will giving a lot less benefit.

 

[Xyriach]

The GL works fine, but you need to head straight for it in a very single minded approach. Once that's done, it's a really powerful wonder especially as it's unlocked through the civics tree so it's not impacting in tech.

If you just let it naturally appear as an option and then build it, it very nearly coincides with the end of the classical era which mutes it really. But then, if that's the case, why build it in the first place?

I'm going through a science victory game at the moment and heading straight for that really did make that whole era fly by, but it's a very expensive option to go for at the expense of a lot of other things, you effectively have to build your second city specifically to house it (or so I found anyway).

 

[Sascha77]

Yeah if you want to grab a wonder, it seems like Stonehenge/hanging gardens are the best bets purely because of how cheap they are to build compared to wonders one era later. Great library already costs more than twice as much production as hanging gardens/Stonehenge will giving a lot less benefit.

I've yet to have a "stone-start", so I haven't been able to build Stonehenge. It seems crazy powerful though, considering how many turns it takes to attract a GP, even when you're bee-lining for one.

Hanging Gardes are very nice again in this game. Weirdly enough, the AI seems to disagree. I was able to build the HG during the late Middle Ages in one of my games and so far, I've never been beaten to them in *any* of my games. Same goes for the Great Lighthouse BTW, which the AI doesn't seem to value very highly - even in my last two games which were both on the Islands map.

Perhaps they should change the GL bonus/boost to grant you a free tech (not boosts) or one or two free Great Scientists or something. As it is now, I think I won't prioritize the GL, which is something I would never have said for Civ IV's or (especially) V's GL.

S.

 

[Frank327]

I've yet to have a "stone-start", so I haven't been able to build Stonehenge. It seems crazy powerful though, considering how many turns it takes to attract a GP, even when you're bee-lining for one.

Hanging Gardes are very nice again in this game. Weirdly enough, the AI seems to disagree. I was able to build the HG during the late Middle Ages in one of my games and so far, I've never been beaten to them in *any* of my games. Same goes for the Great Lighthouse BTW, which the AI doesn't seem to value very highly - even in my last two games which were both on the Islands map.

Perhaps they should change the GL bonus/boost to grant you a free tech (not boosts) or one or two free Great Scientists or something. As it is now, I think I won't prioritize the GL, which is something I would never have said for Civ IV's or (especially) V's GL.

S.

I've never really valued GL, even in civ V and actually I'm valuing it more now because great works of writing slots are so difficult to come by. The needed production is really putting me off though.

I think the AI builds less wonders because the terrain/layout restrictions are so tight. Actually having a good spot to build a wonder is not very likely if you don't plan for it and even then it'll probably be in a city with less production than your capital. Even finding flat land next to a river that's not already taken seems to be difficult for the AI.

 

[GoodSarmatian]

The GL works fine, but you need to head straight for it in a very single minded approach. Once that's done, it's a really powerful wonder especially as it's unlocked through the civics tree so it's not impacting in tech.

It really does't help that the Recorded History is boosted by 2 Campus districts...
I haven't yet built the GL, but it seems it will be mostly useful for the writing slots. I never have enough spaces to use my writers.

 

[Sascha77]

I think the AI builds less wonders because the terrain/layout restrictions are so tight. Actually having a good spot to build a wonder is not very likely if you don't plan for it and even then it'll probably be in a city with less production than your capital. Even finding flat land next to a river that's not already taken seems to be difficult for the AI.

Not sure about that... there seem to be some wonders that they always go for. Like the Colossus or Stonehenge. Others seem way less popular with the AI, even when they meet the terrain-requirements. *shrug*

I've never really valued GL, even in civ V

In V, GL is always my priority.. if someone beats me to it, I'm always tempted to re-start. Getting the additional science, a free library *and* the free tech this early in the game lays a great foundation towards any type of victory. Plus it lets me jump into the Classical Era instantly via Philosophy, meaning I can also get the Oracle unopposed if I decide I need another policy.

S.

 

[Xyriach]

It really does't help that the Recorded History is boosted by 2 Campus districts...
I haven't yet built the GL, but it seems it will be mostly useful for the writing slots. I never have enough spaces to use my writers.

Not sure I get why the 2 campuses is a bad thing? You'd need a campus to put it next to anyway and there's plenty of time to get that done before Recorded History becomes available. If you're headed for a science victory, then that early science boost is needed anyway so it naturally falls into the victory path.

 

[kaspergm]

I agree that it comes too late. Most of the ancient/classical era techs have boosts that come pretty much automatically, so the benefits of this wonder seems extremely marginal. But yeah, maybe it's major use are the two slots for great works.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

I agree that it comes too late. Most of the ancient/classical era techs have boosts that come pretty much automatically, so the benefits of this wonder seems extremely marginal. But yeah, maybe it's major use are the two slots for great works.

I thought the great library boost was different from the Eurekas.

 

[Browd]

No, the GL just gives you every ancient and classical era eureka you don't already have. Unless you beeline the GL, you may find that you only lack a couple of eurekas (or maybe none), making the GL very underwhelming, though it does still provide +2 science, +1 GS point, and 2 Great Work of Writing slots (which can be a godsend for Russia, which, if it spams out Lavras, may be swimming in extra Great Writers).

 

[GoodSarmatian]

Not sure I get why the 2 campuses is a bad thing? You'd need a campus to put it next to anyway and there's plenty of time to get that done before Recorded History becomes available. If you're headed for a science victory, then that early science boost is needed anyway so it naturally falls into the victory path.

Having two campuses means you're probably teching so fast that the you'll get too many ancient and classical techs before you can finish the Great Library. It's a wonder that's most useful if you concentrate more on culture than on scoence, but the inspiration requires you to concentrate on science.

 

[kampori]

As others have said, the vast majority of the appeal of the GL is the 2 writing slots, which are hard to come by, and the GS points.

As for AI and wonders. They indeed go for the ones they always do. Stonehenge is always taken by turn 30 for me (I have only gotten it twice before). Pyramids and Petra always get taken fast, but they only require desert so are easy to build. Shame because Pyramids are probably my favourite wonder.
Chichen Itza is also taken straight away, just like CiV. Don't think I've gotten it once, yet.

Also I'm sorely missing Maccu Pichu and Neuschwanstein. They were my 2 favourite wonders in CiV

 

[SammyKhalifa]

When I saw this wonder in the game I just assumed there was some weird beeline that I wasn't seeing.

 

[Japper007]

I can think of a relatively niche strategy: You go Gorgo, between the special Acropolis district and the culture from kills you might be able to get to GL in time for it to have much use.

But yeah, the mighty have indeed fallen.

 

[dwarfling]

I think the real use of it would be if you're beelining mid and bottom of the tech tree, you build Great Library and if you got Sailing and the other techs boosted (C.Navigation and Shipbuilding) then you get those instantly, plus possibly Mathematics if you haven't done it already but got it boosted. It's a decent amount of science saved, plus the benefits of the building.

Is it worth the hammers that early in the game? Doubtful...

 

[MadDjinn]

if only it was one civic level earlier.. if it was on the same line as entertainment/PP/theatres, then it'd be a game changer.

as is... nah.

About the only time a beeline is worth it is if you want to go 'deep' in the tech tree and don't specifically have a reason to pick up most tech eurekas/ancient-classical techs already.

Gorgo/Rome (either) could work with hitting each civic eureka on the way. Then beeline something in the tech tree (deep tech rush to medieval) while ignoring most else.

Possibly Arabia as well due to Madrasa being so close after Recorded History. Hard tech to Knights via 2 campuses, and theatre district early to get the culture to push into recorded history.

Biggest problem with that sort of beeline is you promptly lose 1-2 quests per CS you know; which sucks if you know a lot of them.

 

[Brianstorm]

Is there too many wonders as well as having too high a production cost? With so many, they don't seem all that special and there's no real race for them outside of Stonehenge