Grigori Guide

[MagisterCultuum]

Yeah, but Kael has stated that he does not plan to have the Unrestricted Leaders option be balanced. I'm certainly not recommending they get religions in normal games, and I personally don't ever use the Unrestricted Leaders option (although I would if the randomly selected leaders would still have their normal civ but you could assign leaders separately if you wanted to), but I don't see why we shouldn't leave the option open. It seems that Kael agreed at one point.

 

[Caradoc]

I'd like to have a semi-restricted leader option where each Civilization has a set of potential leaders consistent with their flavor (common alignment, race, traits) in addition to its regular leaders. Since we now have events that let you take over other Civs, it's not too much of a stretch. And this would be better for those events if they were also semi-restricted.

I can make reasonable choices for myself with the Unrestricted Leaders option, but who knows what the random AI leaders will be. I'd like them to be more reasonable selections without having to set them myself and spoil the fun of discovering them.

 

[Ajidica]

I realize this guide is outdated, but I have a question on the Grigori.
What is the big deal with Luonotars? They are stronger than a druid, but cant cast spells. They can convert other units, but is that worth it when the highest chance they can get is 50%?

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Their main bonus is that they are Magic Immune. They also have an intrinsic bonus vs Disciple units.



I much prefer them in my version. They are weaker, but available at an earlier and more fitting technology: Philosophy. (I rearranged the tech tree a little, so Philosophy is a slightly later and more expensive tech, and is also the prereq for Republic.) They not only have their bonus vs Disciples, but also can target them in stack of stronger units. They don't have channeling or inquisitor promotions, mostly because my And Cow for Something Completely Different spell would mean that the Grigori could give all their heroes all the abilities of an archmage very early. Instead, they have a unit-specific Enlighten spell, which works like Inquisition but can also eliminate state religions, and also has a chance to make units on its tile lose their religion (which also means that priests lose their spells). Oh yeah, they can also move in rival territory without open borders, as it would otherwise be really dumb to sign open borders agreements with the Grigori if you have a state religion.


I was thinking I would let the Grigori get normal Druids again, but I changed my mind. Although not tied to a state religion, Druids are technically Priests who worship a false god (Sucellus). Plus, adventurer Druids would allow too much abuse of And Now For Something Completely Different.

 

[Ajidica]

Correct me if I am wrong, but Magic Immune means that they are unnaffected by spell such as ring of fire, malestrom, and crown of brilliance; but are affected by summons, other damage types, and passive effects like fear and Meshhaber of Dis ring of fire?

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Magic Immune units would be unaffected by all spells except those they personally cast, including ring of fire, Meshabber's ring of fire, maelstrom, etc, and beneficial spells like Haste and Heal.

They are not immune to fear, and don;t have an intrinsic bonus versus summons. However, they are immune to Lightning, Cold, Death, and Fire damage, which means that some summons will be less effective.

(Now that I think of it, I don't think that they are blocked from being effected by python effects of spells. They are definitely immune to XML only ones, but some direct damage through python spells could still hurt them.)

 

[Sarisin]

Magic Immune units would be unaffected by all spells except those they personally cast, including ring of fire, Meshabber's ring of fire, maelstrom, etc, and beneficial spells like Haste and Heal.

They are not immune to fear, and don;t have an intrinsic bonus versus summons. However, they are immune to Lightning, Cold, Death, and Fire damage, which means that some summons will be less effective.

(Now that I think of it, I don't think that they are blocked from being effected by python effects of spells. They are definitely immune to XML only ones, but some direct damage through python spells could still hurt them.)

So, they would have the same problem as dragons then?

They can easily be diseases in combat, but would resist the Cure Disease spell??? The only way to cure them would be the obscure wonder Aqua Succellus.

Sometime magic immunity is not a good thing.

 

[Ajidica]

Can't Grigori medics cure diesese?

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Yes they can, but Magic Immune units are immune to being cured. I'm thinking that a Luonnatar that was upgraded from a medic could still heal itself though.

 

[Ecofarm]

Meta mage: (1st adept built) meta2...
Support mage: (2nd adept built) haste, treetop, sanctify, courage, shadowwalk
Garrison mage(s): mind, spirit2

Heroes: twincast, extension2, Enchantment3, Chaos3

If you cannot get a warrior/axe to level 6 (trapped by AI, can't war), use the 1st hero to make 1 luonnatar to escort the archmages and support mage. That's 5 units (loun, 3 archmage heroes plus mundane support mage) that can take any city in 1 turn, barring a fast move and can produce insurmountable defense in 1 turn.

Really, 3 twincast spellstaff grig archmages (fire or air or etc) break the game but chaos is the most fun. You need divination for inspiration on garrison adepts first, then adaptation for haste and then necro for chaos (and death for garrison) - after arcane for crown.

 

[Ajidica]

I thought Twincast was removed on account of being OP, or was that before the removale of targeted spells?
Magic immune also measn your own spells have no effect? That sucks, can cuse heal spell, courage, enchanted weapons, ect....

 

[Darksaber1]

Twincast currently only effects summoning, not direst affect spells. So Fireball is doulbled, but Malestrom Isn't.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Darksaber1 is correct (although I'm trying to change that)

Twincast wasn't removed, but Meteor Shower was removed mostly because Twincast made it overpowered.

 

[Ecofarm]

Darksaber1 is correct (although I'm trying to change that)

Twincast wasn't removed, but Meteor Shower was removed mostly because Twincast made it overpowered.

Are you building a time machine?

I hope the same does not happen to wonder. I think this spell is a great thing. While balseraph druids with wonder are underwhelming (not worth it, domination is better even with keelyn), grig chaos3 archmages are amazing. From 3 of them: you get like 5-10 summons (mostly 10s), maelstrom, crush, bless, blur and valor; break staff, for a total of 10-20 summons and a few other spells - all in one turn. It's like 12 archmages casting all with combat5 (twincast = 6, spellstaff = 12) except like 30 spells go off and all the summons (with mobility2 and enhancement5) get doubled (wonder does 3-5 spells?).

Wonder needs to be tuned (let's start with no crush), but I can't imagine how to make it worth taking for Keelyn and yet balanced for grig. Did I mention a spell with multiple random effects is awesome?

 

[Ajidica]

With wonder, how many of the effects are negative for the caster/stack he is in? I have been thinking about using wonder, but I dont want, say, wither on my stack, that would suck.

 

[Ecofarm]

With wonder, how many of the effects are negative for the caster/stack he is in? I have been thinking about using wonder, but I dont want, say, wither on my stack, that would suck.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=6982705&postcount=19

Thanks, Mag.

 

[Ajidica]

What exactly does all that Python mean? I understand what effects it may give, but how are the effects weighted or are they strict probability with no weighting?

Also, can Adventurers get XP vie combat beyond 101? I have killed ALOT of lizardmen and orc spearmen with one, but he is still not going up in xp.

 

[xienwolf]

There is no Weighting to it. And if you want a non-code version, I have all the details in my Manual.

To gain more than 100 XP, you need to fight non-Barbarians.

 

[Ajidica]

Thanks. Wonder now seems like a really good spell.

 

[Darksaber1]

It is, but effects can be weird, for instance, having the caster not do anything at the site were you cast, instead Escaping back to your capital, and doing it's effects there.