Håkan Eriksson

Kittenofchaos: Sweden stayed neutral in ww2, because we did'nt want to wind up like Norway or Denmark, and also of course, because our king at the time sympathized with the nazis, but still, we can't do anything about that today..........
That's almost like bringing up the vicious things the yankees did to their native population.
 
After reading this thread I thought about what I should write. To be honest I'll write what I believe:


We all want a better world, for this world to become a reality we must be free to control our lives.
I look at poor countries like Afghanistan and I feel for the people because their short lives will be fuelled with hunger and poverty. I look at Ethiopia and the people whose short lives will see them suffer again and again.
But then I look at my country, Scotland, Great Britain and I see more people whose short lives will be filled with grief and unhappiness.
I look at this world and I see everyone living their short lives filled with poverty, hunger, oppression, grief, unhappiness and death. This better world that we want cannot and will never arrive, this is it.
To sit in front of our Computer's and cry about how terrible the world is can't be good.
Just be happy, just be happy you can live now and not yesterday, be happy with your life.

Dexter

:)
 
Sonorakitch, :goodjob: ...

I also feel the way SunTzu does kind of... whatever we do, people gonna piss and moan. I asked in another thread why the dislike of America. I got a lot of "Americans are too arrogant and proud." I don't think it's that so much. We have a right to be. We're TOO proud? I think maybe there's a little jealousy. Arrogance and pride? You got that much time in your life to worry about how proud someone else is? Go get on a soap opera!!! Hell, why shouldn't we be proud and arrogant? Pathetic measly maggots... Sorry, just ramblin here...

Dexter is right. I agree, life sucks. Enjoy it while ya can. ;)
 
Håkan, i have nothing against u personally, i just think your views on matters are stupid

Mikoyan, i hardly think allowing the nazis crossing over sweden to invade norway is being neutral

SunTzu, i agree with you

Håkan, u said the only time when europe was in trouble was in ww2, what about bosnia, and kosovo? (wich has already been mentioned though)

and thanks to u joespanel

kittenofchaos, sweden did just not sit by and watch on the side, it helped the nazis in many ways including selling ball bearing and coal and iron ore and stuff like that. It also assisted the germans in the invasion of norway by allowing them to pass over to norway, that, atleast to me is a valid reason to call the swedish goverment (at that time, not now) a nazi puppet regime. i know i will probably get alot of **** for saying this but it is true, and when the found out that the allies were winning the war they abandoned the germans and started making english the language u learn in school.

the swedish goverment has betrayed the people of norway, and as far as i know never apologized.
 
ok... as far as i knew, this was about america?

I dunno, im too tired to think. But i have an idea, i'l post 2moro
 
The Swiss handled their neutrality much better than the collaborative Swedes did:

(witness this paraphrased conversation during WW2)

German Representative: So, how large of an army can Switzerland muster?

Swiss Representative: We can field an army of 500,000 riflemen.

German Rep: Ahhhh, and what would you do if we send a million Germans across your border?

Swiss Rep: Well, I suppose our boys would just have to shoot twice!
 
i hardly think letting the german forces cross over sweden to get to norway is being neutral, thats participating in the war on germanys side. my grandmother was norweigan (mormor), and her brother was killed by the nazis, so i feel that was a betrayal from sweden, if sweden would have participated in the war against germany, i think the war would háve been a year shorter.
 
Originally posted by joespaniel
I was going to just stop coming to the CFC site, but you have lifted my spirits a little.

Glad to hear that Joe. I would hate to see people start leaving this place because of what somebody writes or does. And it's also nice to hear that my grassroots campaign is actually having some good effects (I'm making a conscious effort to return to the soft spoken, eloquent, and knowledgeable poster I used to be before I became a mod and got all uptight.)
 
I wouldn't be too hard on the Swedish, for a couple of reasons;

They were in a terrifying position. The only country standing up to the Nazis was the UK, and before Churchill came along, Chamberlin caved in to the Nazis over and over. The Soviets were Hitlers friends, France was ambivilant in its opposition, USA was neutral and weak, Finland was also friends with Germany (and got f*cked by Hitler). Geat Britain did not have a large army then and could mainly offer encouragement. Not much use against German bombs and fallsirmjager.

Sweden could have said no to Hitler and been decimated like Norway. Perhaps the Norweigans (who survived) hold that history as a badge of pride, and they should, but I think the Swedish King could have been trying to save his people from the horror of Nazi occupation. If he was a Nazi sympathizer, damn him to hell, but I don't blame his people.

They would have experianced the oppression, enslavement and murder that Poland had a year earlier, followed by Denmark, Norway, The Netherlands, Belgium, France, Luxembourg ...

Could be this have been a consideration in 1940?

Personaly, I would rather perish fighting than live in a society ruled by fear and evil.
 
.:KNAS:. I was being a tactful kitten...It was enough that I said they had blood on their hands for "watching WW2" as in not being a combatant...face it the Yankees would have traded with Hitler but for the Royal Navy blockading...in WW1 the Royal Navy intercepted American ships bound for Holland with military cargo using the precident of interceptions made by the U.S Navy in the Civil War on supplies to Mexico that were proably ultimately bound for the Confeds.

To trade with the Germans etc is watching a war...to let them use your territory is expedient if you want to remain a watcher...it is not active participation.

So I'm right :p


Had the Danes had any balls they could have fired upon German ships bound for Norway with their formidable coastal fortresses...had the Dutch and Belgians had a brain they'd have declared war on germany at the same time as Britain and France to allow access to the Allied armies so allowing the possibility of attacking Germany when her armies where kicking the Poles or simply having a much stronger position to meet the Germans at.

Only Britain and the Polish people (after the invasion of Poland...they fought on every front) had the balls to stand up to Germany despite her position being desperate and her having most to lose. The Russians traded with the Nazis to the day they were invaded, the French went Vichy rather than fight on from their empire and their fleet stayed in port rather than join the Royal Navy (for which we bombarded their ass in port in N.Africa).

P.S I hope this is in the right thread!
 
I would concur with joe about the matter of Sweden's neutrality or collaboration. They could either supply the Germans with what they wanted as a quasi-free nation, or be overrun and supply them as an occupied nation, and suffer all the involved atrocities and deprivations.
In the case of WW2, it was in the Swedish interest to remain neutral and try and survive. National interest is only very rarely concurrent with altruism, or idealistic defiance.

Sweden was not a natural fortress like Switzerland; it was open to an attack, and would have suffered under Nazi occupation. Certainly they did trade with the Nazis, but they also provided a haven for many who fled German occupation. The best example of this is a deed that will live in memory forever as heroism, when in 1942 the Danish managed to smuggle all but a few of the Danish Jews across the Skaggerak(or is it Kattegat) to safety in Sweden. This should be credited entirely to the Danes, but would not have been possible without Sweden being nominally free.

It is easy to fling about accusations of collaboration from some among the beligerant powers, such as the US, but the mainland US was never in range for a major Axis attack, save the firebomb kites of the Japanese, which killed 4 civilians. It is all well and good to talk about suicide tactics, but sometimes they are not necessary, and in the case of Sweden did save more lives than it cost, with the important exception being the crossing of territory to reach Norway, but that was not the main thrust of the invasion.

As to the mention of the King being a Nazi sympathiser or collaborator, I do not think so personally. My uncle was his valet for many years after the war, and did not describe him as such, rather as a very nice gentleman.

As for the general gist of this thread, I applaud and endorse what Dexter wrote (Very good, little boy! Would you like a candy from the nice evil man in the suspicious black overcoat?;) :p ), and further reinforce my own thoughts:

Americans as a people are no more evil, imperialist, corrupt or whatever than anyone else. Nor are they any better than most other PEOPLES (by this I mean the general populace of a nation) There are many millions of them, and the media is to a certain extent dominated by them. Thus, we see a lot of particular types, and form our opinions only by this.
Due to their large numbers, of course they are bound to have more strange or naughty individuals as other smaller nations.
By the same token, they do have large numbers of extremely pleasant, intelligent and good individuals, some of whom it is my honour to know over these boards.
As for their foreign policy, it can be criticized, but so can that of any country, and constant flaming of it brings about no constructive result. Nor in the end does the opinion of some people from other nations have the paramount impact upon the formulation of this policy and the determination of their national interest. These are affairs primarily for the American people, and their elected representatives to determine, TAKING INTO ACCOUNT WORLD NEEDS AND FEELING, BUT NOT ABOVE ALL ELSE.
On certain matters, this is a good principal to operate, on others, there needs to be room for improvement, but I do not know enough about the specifics of these (mainly the intricacies of the environmental proposals, ie Kyoto) This does not make America evil, fascist, or imperialist, with the last two terms being constantly misused to the extent that it makes me, an academic and scholar of these concepts, shake my head in wonderment at how some people operate.
Suffice it to say, in every nation, and in all policy, there is good and bad, and conflicting concerns to be taken into hand.
 
Thank you all!

Thank you for making me realise that there are nothing wrong with the US!

Thank you all for telling me that I'm wrong when I say that the president of the USA is representing the thoughts and believes of the people.

Thank you for making me realise that there is absolute nothing wrong with the civilian deaths in Afghanistan.

Thank you for explaining to me that there is not a such thing as greed in the USA.

Also thank you for finally making me realise that the good things in the USA greatly overcome the less good things as guns, wars and death penalty.

Thank you also from making me see that the wars that the US have been in such as the Cold War was just to help Europe!

And thank you all fore making me understand that it is me that is responsible for how the Swedish government acted during the WW2.

And thank you for make me understand that every thing bad that Sweden did during the WW2 is worth mentioning. And that good things such as Raul Wallenberg helping 40 000 people from death is insignificant.

And one big thank you SunTzu for pointing out that when I say something bad about the US it's bashing and when others say bad things about Sweden it isn't.

Also a special thanks to Glaurung for making me understand that I'm a murderer and a terrorist friend, even thou I never sad anything good about any terrorist.

And thank you scorch for showing that despite that you don't even know what the EU is you still can bash it.

And thank you fore making me realise that I'm not allowed to have my own opinions.

And one last thank you all for showing me that I'm not welcome here any more.
 
You're welcome.
You're welcome.
You're welcome.
You're welcome.
You're welcome.
You're welcome.
You're welcome.
You're welcome.
You're welcome.
You're welcome.
You're welcome.
You're welcome.
And finaly, you're welcome.
 
Originally posted by Håkan Eriksson
And one last thank you all for showing me that I'm not welcome here any more.

Don't over-react Håkan. Remember, first and foremost, this is a site about the Game of Civilization, nothing more, and nothing less. I, for one, have always read your musings with great interest. This is simply a debate, nothing personal. I have nothing against your country, or you. I know that you are young and when I was your age, I would react just as you did to people disagreeing with me, but with time and experience with how the world works, you will realize that's its not such a big thing.
 
Originally posted by Håkan Eriksson
And one last thank you all for showing me that I'm not welcome here any more.
Hey, chill out...
Don't do anything stupid now...
 
i wrote an essay on raul wallenberg, he didnt save 40 00 jews, it was 400 000 jews, and he was sponsored by the us goverment
 
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