Haj01 - World Domination?

[Hajime]

Turn 0: Changed Babylon's Spearman to Settler - time to pop growth Nineveh like mad

Turn 1: Akkad produces Worker. Set it to Bowman - Time to prep for war!
Uruk produces Spearman. Set it to Bowman.
Nippur produces Worker. Set it to Bowman.
Joined a Settler to Nineveh here I think.

Turn 2: Settled Zariqum, set it to producing Warrior - next build, worker.
Set Lux to 20% - Science at 70%. - -1 gpt, poly in 4.
Popped goodie hut SE of Shuruppak, figuring what the hell - got Code of Laws. Oh yeah, baby.

IBT: Got our asses owned at Sippar by angry barbarians. They carried away about 5 gold - but we got 25 gold for settling Sippar, so we came out ahead

Turn 3: Babylon produces Settler. Set it to Spearman.
Settled Sippar - Set it to Walls (Here's our major defensive point, folks. Ditto with Akkad and Eulbar - need walls there.)
Changed Akkad from Bowman to Walls.

IBT: Zariqum got attacked by barbs as the warrior was killed last turn. Lost a total of 4 gold.

Turn 4: Samarra produces Barracks. Set it to Bowman.
Founded Izibia, set it to Bowman (Followed by Worker)
Changed Zariqums build to Bowman (Followed by Worker)

Turn 5: Babylon produces Bowman. Set it to Bowman again.
Joined Babylonian Settler to Nineveh - instant pop growth!

Turn 6: Learned Polytheism
Set it to Monarchy. Moved Lux to 40% temp to stop Nineveh from civil disorder - good ol' learn - avoid civil disorder trick .
Oops, Nineveh starved and lost one pop! Lux back to 20%
Nineveh produced Glib (?!?!?!?) - Set it to Barracks.
Ellipi produces Spearman. Set it to Bowman.

IBT: Learned Map Making, Construction, and Engineering. Left it on Monarchy (Don't want to waste turns, and we plan on warmongering!).

Turn 7: Babylon produces Bowman. Set it to Library - worth it for the sci boost.
Ashur produces Spearman - Set it to Bowman.
Uruk produces Bowman - Set it to Bowman
People love my ass so much they build a palace - WTF? In a SG?!?

Turn 8: Not much.

IBT: Nippur gets its ass kicked by Barbs - lost 9 gold.

Turn 9: Babylon produces Library. Set it to Bowman.
Samarra produces Bowman - Bowman.

IBT: More Nippur arse-whoopage. Lost 1 gold.

Turn 10: Babylon produces Bowman. Set it to Bowman.
Nineveh produces Barracks. Set it to Harbor.
Eulbar produces Barracks. Set it to Worker.

EOT, then realize for some reason we're 1 off-kilter by 1 turn, so I take it:

IBT: Celts tell us to remove forces, so we do.

NT: Babylon produces Bowman. Set it to Bowman again.
Ashur produces Bowman. Set it to Bowman again.
Ellipi produces Bowman. Bowman.


Sidenote: Why the hell was the Glib produced? There should have been at -least- 2 more turns on it, even using the techniques I was! I've noted a few weird quirks from time to time - what version of Conquests are all of you using? And everyone is playing Conquests, correct?

Sidenote to the sidenote: Those wonder cascades are IRRITATING.

Sidenote: After playing a shadow game for a bit, I'm having trouble reconciling worker times. Odd...

Everyone is playing 1.22, Conquests, correct?

 

[sourboy]

Here is a screenshot as of Haj's last turn:



What is our next step? Prepare to invade Vikings? Research straight towards Military Tradition?

 

[Hajime]

Let's go for both, Sour.

Prep for invasion of vikings in the next turn -while- researching Military Tradition. It's not incompatible - it'll just take a bit longer to get to MT .

However, if we do not plan on warring on the Vikings -immediately-, we need to focus solely on getting MT. We can't match the Vikings unit in the MA - at all - unless we have Cavalry.

 

[Stoo.W]

WAR... HUH... (good god y'all)... what is it good for: absolutely loads! (sorry!) lets do some ass kicking (we can research on the way + sue for peace, etc)!!

I'm playing conquests 1.22 Haj! Our empire's looking OK - did we build all that with just one cities production?! I cant belive we managed the glib, i really thought we would miss out - good stuff Are we gonna wait for provak or go round again?

Can i suggest we build a library or temple in eulbar so that the border expands and we can secure that iron resource - its gonna be all kinds a useful for our date with the vikings!!

 

[Stoo.W]

Actually, looking at the last screenshot - do we have a nearby horse resource? - we may have no option but to goto war now, if only to secure a horsey resource - otherwise MT is gonna be rather useless!

 

[Hajime]

Stoo: ProZak gets priority, and he can go twice in a row if he wants I guess.
24 hour rule is in effect now .

We also lack a horse resource. Which means...Viking war is required. We also may want that iron resource - a GA is tempting, however, as it would allow us enough boost to easily beat the Vikings. Once we've beaten the Vikings, we can pretty much beat any single Civ that we want if we play well. Hence, perfectly timed GA.

Also, remember guys, whoever posts 'Got it' next gets to go.

On this tangent: Next person going should build up as much military as possible. The person after that should prepare to war, and initiate the war against the Vikings - preferably taking at least one city to give the Vikings something to focus on other then our towns.

Rather then building a library in Eulbar, build one in Shruppak or whatever the name is north of it. It'll expand and grab the iron, while you can focus on military builds - walls, barracks - in Eulbar.

Eulbar is a front-line city. We need military builds in it, as we do with all the other front-line cities.

During my turns, I built up a -good- chunk of military, so we are really well off - may want to check military advisor there, however. But as it is, I think our current forces match or are slightly stronger than the Vikings.

 

[Stoo.W]

fair enough, just for reference how many shields does a bowman cost in comparison with a swordsman? If swords take a lot more to build, then the extra attack point may not be worth as much as i though anyway if we can spend the same amount of time building extra units instead of fewer (albeit) stronger units!

Anyway - it appears that we are all in favor of the viking adventure, so should we start sending build troops to one particular city (just outside its borders until we are ready to strike), move troops to our frontline cities to defend until ready to strike, or split our forces into smaller groups to attack several cities at once when the time is right?? If we are going to concentrate our forces, where should we do it?

we can start to target the cities on our border, or at this stage in the game, we could get troops through viking territory in order to hit them where it will hurt the most (capital) - plus this might even give us control over a wonder, and at very least, we would take away a huge production centre of the enemy! at the mo, we dont have any info in terms of the vikings territory so its difficult to say where to hit 1st in relation to where important resources and luxuries are! does anyone think doing a little scouting would be useful 1st. As much as I have my little heart set on a viking war right now, if they have no horses, would our war expedition be better sent someone elses way? - just a few things we might want to think about.

 

[Hajime]

Swordsman cost is 30 + Iron, vs 20 for Bowman.

Translation: We get the same amount of units overall, with a similar distribution of attack points. Due to the defensive bombardment of the bowmen, it would be best to focus on a mix of swordsman and bowmen, with more bowmen then swordsman. Initially, use Bowmen to start the attack, and begin to pump out swordsman to bolster our Bowmen ranks.

Bowmen make -excellent- attackers, due to one simple fact. Their attack value equals their defense value, and in a stack, they get defensive bombard. Play around a bit with them - bowmen are -invaluable- for attacking as Babylon AA.

However, horses are largely irrelevant to the Viking war. The Vikings are at our back - that's a very bad thing. If we can take over their land, and get our back against a firm shore, then we have a far easier job of defense. Plus, you don't want to screw with the celts north of us - as another poster noted, the Gallic Swordsman are BAD news. Overall, if we plan to war, the Vikings are the only logical target in our current state. Furthermore, the Vikings have an insanely powerful MA unit - if we plan to -ever- war on them, warring on them during the MA is a BAD idea. This is also a warmongering game - hence....

Vikings are our chosen target .

 

[sourboy]

I'm confident the Viking cities in the South are relatively new and bordering the sea. I would recommend hitting them from our SW (Akkad?) and cutting off the expansions. These might be cities we can sue for, or otherwise should be able to take with a small band. Our main focus should be on Reykjavik - due West. It is on a river with many flood plains, and has a Tobacco resource nearby. There are hills around it that would help us scout safely, but mor importantly - it would be a fast growing city that could help us gain leverage quickly by taking it from them. I would suggest stationing troops one tile East of their town, so we can move into their borders in one turn, and lay siege on the second. On second glance, I notice there's an Iroquois town right above Reykjavik. Buried in marshes, there's a good chance that Reykjavik is a primary city for the Vikings, and at least the only major one bordering us.

Any thoughts?

 

[Hajime]

Sounds great, Sour, and after looking at the map, I agree entirely.

However, a piece of advice - keep a CAREFUL eye on Viking units. When they get their UU, we should consider immediately suing for peace.

Also, after 24 hours of no one playing, the turns go back to "normal" - aka, it's like no one has played this recent turn.

That sounds like the best idea atm . Comments guys?

 

[Stoo.W]

if we make a wait for a few rounds until we have a decent sized army, we should be able to do the vikings over pretty quickly - way before they get invention (which is what they need for their UU)! - another question - who does that horse unit belong to south of akkad? (might be barb but cant make it out in pic).

BTW - i completely agree with the viking war - i was just pointing out that if we are making a big effort to drive quickly towards MT for the purpose of getting world domination - then we are gonna need horses - which the vikings may or may not have! I know we should have plenty of time before we have to worry about this but, the quicker we get horses, the quicker we can build cheap horsemen which can be mass upgraded for a price and thus creating a huge force in no time at all which can be put into action straight away!

what are we doing govt wise? i recommend we change to monarchy before starting this war, despotism will stunt our research and gold levels in comparison with monarchy - plus - if this war ends up going longer than intended, we could be falling to far behind the rest of the pack! and we dont want to be changing govt's while we're at war!!!!

one final thought before i get some sleep - does anyone like the idea of having nineveh prebuild for suntzu'AOW?? it could save us a fair bit of cash in the long run and help our unit production for future wars!! especially when we have taken out a few civs and our empire is getting bigger. (we may need newly conquered cities to start producing units right away - we dont want to waste time building a barracks 1st) - we can also heal our units quickly when on the march!!

 

[Hajime]

Sun Tzu -can- be a great deal for a Warmonger if the map is large enough, but at the size of this map....

I wonder. I don't think it'd be that good of an idea offhand - anyone else?

Also, I believe that horse unit belongs to the Vikings.

 

[Stoo.W]

forgot to say - battle plans look good sour, i would agree with this plan!

@haj- 24hrs of noplay? are we STILL waiting for prozak or just letting him cut in when he's ready? if we arn't waiting i would like to continue the next 10! i would build up our troops and get them in position to the South and towards reyk so that someone else can start the war straight after! id also like to go ahead with the revolution boys if we are all in favor!

good news about that horsey! everything is falling into place! ahahahahahaha

 

[Hajime]

Stoo: No more waiting. 24 hours of noplay == we go automatically on to the next round, regardless of who has played and not played. And it is in effect - so start whenever you want.

 

[Stoo.W]

great stuff. well, its 2am so i will have to do it tomorrow, but i'm free tomorow so it should be posted by 6pm at the very, very latest! you might want to check before though - it shouldn't take me long!

 

[Hajime]

Stoo: Just remember, whoever grabs it ahead of you can play it as well

 

[Stoo.W]

yeah sure - i will check here tomorrow morning to make sure!

BTW - on the suntzu front: if i get the next 10 - i will set nineveh to prebuild after the harbour (so that it continues to grow). we have plenty of cities producing units and we have done as much expanding as we're gonna do, so i think we can sacrifice one city to wonder building. might have to get a bowman to the city though as well - i dont like the look of that viking archer by a city with the gl and only 1 defending warrior!

 

[Hajime]

Well folks, after looking at this a bit longer - Do we have any plans for upgrading existing units, or are we using a strat that involves not upgrading?

In the case of the latter, if we want to save cash and use shields, then we need to just build straight Bowmen and completely ignore Spearmen - let's be blunt, Spearmen suck compared to Bowmen. However, if we plan on upgrading at all, Spearmen own Bowmen's asses.

However, Bowmen can also be used offensively in this case...Bah. Next player - kick arse!

 

[sourboy]

I could have played many times today, but I really didn't want to play again after Haj, since he followed my first turn. And cuz I think Haj is hinting at the 24 hour rule for himself at this point, I would say no - cuz we have been discussing moves, not MIA. If you really want things moving, let me know soon and I'll make a move tonight. Otherwise, I'll play tomorrow after Stoo (or whoever beats me to it).

The Horseman in the South, btw, is a Barbarian, IIRC.

I agree on using Nineveh to prebuild, but not necessarily Sun Tzu's - I think Leo's W'shop would be better - and it would solve our 'upgrade units?' debate.

I also agree on grabbing that Iron, ASAP. We may not need it for Swordsmen, but it would be nice to have at least a few Pikeman (or the upgrade option) on our front lines, prior to Musketmen. That would free up more Bowmen for our aggressions.

 

[Hajime]

Sour: Agreed wholeheartedly on Leo's Workshop. And it would do potentially wonders for a whole lot of things....That sounds like the best option. Now that I'm thinking about it, it's impressive, and does make Spearmen very nice for when we -do- get it.

As for the 24-hour rule for myself, yes. Sometimes I go MIA due to major Uni workloads - I'm pretty overloaded this quarter, and I'm hitting the busiest time of the year with clients. (I'd look into hiring, but the skillsets required are too rare.) Hence, at times, it's possible to not even hear from me for 2-3 days.

The next turns: The next 10 are highly critical, Sour. And the 10 after that are, as well. If I had a say, I'd put you in either 10, depending on which type of game Stoo is stronger at - Stoo's pretty good, but I'm not familiar enough with his style yet. We have sufficient forces, atm, to war on the Vikings if they are used correctly I believe - I'd shadow it and play 10 turns, but no one has played that far yet.

Also, CivBattle can be skipped untill late Sunday - but once he gets back, he has immediate priority on any turns .

Also agreed on the iron - Bowmen are amazingly versatile, aren't they? . However, in a stack, they are actually strongest on defense - which is what I love . Get some decent terrain, let the comp whale away with it's 2att Archers vs our 2def bowmen on 50% or 100% (+25% fortify?) bonus defensive terrain with a defensive bombard . Yes, sadly enough, an effective method of play with the bowmen can -very well- be getting the comp to attack the damn things if you pay careful attention to what you are doing, guys.