Hall of Fame Rules/FAQ

[EMan]

Okay, I have no problem with that.

Here's the REAL problem, that we have to be careful of in the future (and I can empathize with Lord Emsworth on this):

I checked with 'slug some time ago, as did Lord E......and 'slug gave his approval. Now, y'all come along and say it's not valid. A case of the left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing.

I guess the Rule Of Thumb is:
If the tactic/strategy/exploit/bug is not EXPLICITLY documented in the HOF Rules, don't use it!!?

 

[Elear]

I think it comes down to a feeling. Usually we should be able to tell...if it feels possibly dishonest in any way, it probably is exploitative...

If not, that's why we have these forums.

 

[EMan]

One man's trash is another man's cash.

 

[Denniz]

Okay, I have no problem with that.

Here's the REAL problem, that we have to be careful of in the future (and I can empathize with Lord Emsworth on this):

I checked with 'slug some time ago, as did Lord E......and 'slug gave his approval. Now, y'all come along and say it's not valid. A case of the left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing.

I guess the Rule Of Thumb is:
If the tactic/strategy/exploit/bug is not EXPLICITLY documented in the HOF Rules, don't use it!!?

Correct, the top of the Disallowed tab says:

The following list of exploits and cheats may be incomplete. If you have a question regarding the validity of a tactic please feel free to ask in the Hall of Fame Rules/FAQ.

If you don't want to reveal your idea publicly then you should E-mail hof.civfanatics@gmail.com.

Eman, If you have a link to where Superslug approved your tactic then please provide it.

In the case of Lord Emsworth, Superslug was asked by someone else about Lord Emsworth's strategy article. The strategy as outlined in his recent writeup is much more explicit about how you can generate 'free' money. Somehow, I don't think he would have allowed it had he seen that writeup instead.

 

[EMan]

@Denniz: I PMed 'slug about the Civil Engineer bug and got the impression that it was common knowledge, had been reviewed by HOF Staff and given the Green Light.

I do have the PMessages saved and will forward them to you (done).........That will be easier than trying to reproduce them here. (He gave me the "Green Light" response on April 29, 2007.)

However, feel free to display them in the forum.

 

[Denniz]

@Denniz: I PMed 'slug about the Civil Engineer bug and got the impression that it was common knowledge, had been reviewed by HOF Staff and given the Green Light.

I do have the PMessages saved and will forward them to you (done).........That will be easier than trying to reproduce them here. (He gave me the "Green Light" response on April 29, 2007.)

However, feel free to display them in the forum.

We will continue to allow this but plan to add it to the Borderline tab. A couple shields here and there hardly seem to be a big problem. But, as we have learned with Emsworth Agreements, things can go too far.

Too far is defined by the point where that little voice tells you you've probably gone to far. If you are not sure where that point is then you probably should ask someone before you submit it.

 

[EMan]

Yes, you're right, it's hardly a game-breaker and requires some extra work for a minimal advantage........like Ship-Hopping or gpt for upfront cash-then-war.

And, it does appear from 'slug's comments that the Civil Engineer bug has been discussed before and possibly incorporated into HOF games without any dramatic consequences.

 

[rysingsun]

In the case of Lord Emsworth, Superslug was asked by someone else about Lord Emsworth's strategy article.

In the case of Lord Emsworth, Superslug was asked by Rysingsun about Lord Emsworth's strategy article.

I have very mixed feelings about all of this. At the time I was surprised that I was given the green light on the technique and to some extent I feel I owe LE an apology for emboldening him to use this technique in HOF attempts by soliciting this answer. But at the same time I do see this technique as somewhat game-breaking and I understand why it cannot be allowed. I've known from the start that it could facilitate early domination records for huge maps.

Perhaps we could add a new catagory to the HOF. It would be a repository for "unusual feats of valor". A section that only a few noteworthy people per year could get into at the discretion of the staff.

And why? Because most of the HOF records I see on the books now I could break with even a moderately lucky game - many are trivial; but there are pioneers who show us things that truly are noteworthy.

edit - but i would not apply it retroactively. for one thing, the large majority of games in which "creating money out of thin air" was used it will not be possible to prove it. Therefore enforcement becomes largely arbitrary. Those who have drawn the most attention to themselves will have their games scrutinized and theirs will be the only ones rejected. The others will get by because the technique when used in moderation is almost impossible to uncover. And this is not right.

 

[EMan]

@rysingsun: Your points are most interesting and thought-provoking.

I've said for years (since 2002?) that, IMO, (almost) all "exploits" should be allowed, because it's impossible to police......and if everyone is playing by the same rules, what does it matter?

...And why? Because most of the HOF records I see on the books now I could break with even a moderately lucky game...

I agree. This proves that most of the games have not used a major so-called exploit........In fact, the Emsworth 100K games were such stand-outs that obviously a very good strategy was employed.

...for one thing, the large majority of games in which "creating money out of thin air" was used it will not be possible to prove it....

Agree 100%.

...but i would not apply it retroactively....

Disagree 100%. How can you have 1 set of Rules for LE (for example) and 1 set for everyone else? I'm am a bit overly-sensitive about this because, currently, I'm attempting to break a #1 record in the HOF!

Solution: (Almost) ANYTHING GOES! Advantages:
1. Level Playing Field (Most important).....Everyone plays by the same rules
2. HOF Detective work unnecessary (Viz. Easier life for HOF Administrators)
3. You don't have to study (so many) Code Red & Yellow Rules
4. Honor level reduced (Viz. Its harder to cheat....and Less Temptation!)

Now, the only 2 possible downsides I see to this are:
1. The games will be shorter, both in real-time and Game-years. Is this necessarily a bad thing? (I.e. Players complain that Histographic games take too long to be fun.)
2. Players will need to be aware of the top strategies if they want to place high in the table. This information is readily available and is not Rocket Science.

Footnote:
Even though the Civil Engineer bug as been given the yellow light, I've decided against taking advantage of it because:
1. It may be changed to Red at any time (viz. like the Emsworth Agreement), voiding this Huge Histographic game I'm playing.
2. I can (hopefully) take a Number 1 slot without using it.

Having said that, I think the CE bug strategy should be given a Code Green.

To all U.S. "holiday observers": Happy Thanksgiving Holiday!

 

[Ozymandius]

I've read somewhere ?? that you are not allowed to move your capital to gain an advantage. I'm playing tiny histographics to fill up some of the tables but..

by building Shake's theater (also Pyramids, H Gardens, Bach) ,I will get a cultural victory in 2045. Am I allowed to move my capital close by to prevent a cultural win?... close by so I can build it manually, my computers random # generator doesn't like to give me GL's... mostly one per game, many with none, rarely three

 

[EMan]

I've read somewhere ?? that you are not allowed to move your capital to gain an advantage...

Don't see why not.

But the HOF Gods are acoming..........

 

[Ozymandius]

Don't see why not.

Milkers of the world: Unite!!

 

[Bartleby]

Well, "palace jump" and "palace rank exploit" are specifically allowed on the rules page at the moment.

 

[Marsden]

Well, "palace jump" and "palace rank exploit" are specifically allowed on the rules page at the moment.

And no revision is forthcomming, so move around all you want.

 

[AutomatedTeller]

I've read somewhere ?? that you are not allowed to move your capital to gain an advantage. I'm playing tiny histographics to fill up some of the tables but..

by building Shake's theater (also Pyramids, H Gardens, Bach) ,I will get a cultural victory in 2045. Am I allowed to move my capital close by to prevent a cultural win?... close by so I can build it manually, my computers random # generator doesn't like to give me GL's... mostly one per game, many with none, rarely three

You can certainly move your capital.
Depending on where you are in teh game, selling off the lib/uni and rebuilding might be a good plan, too, since they have probably doubled in culture by know and selling/rebuilding will cut the culture they produce in half.

 

[Marsden]

I've read somewhere ??

That's banned in GOTM competition, but as you might have realized, we don't share all the same rules.

 

[Ozymandius]

selling off the lib/uni and rebuilding might be a good plan, too, since they have probably doubled in culture by know and selling/rebuilding will cut the culture they produce in half.

I did not bother to build them. I'm at 1,000 AD and building RRs to boost my agricultural/population numbers. All my specialized citizens are scientists who are giving me the next tech every four years with the slider set at zero.

My cities (78 on tiny map) are producing nothing but gold once the aqueducts and marketplaces have been built....

then for 300 turns hit the space bar..

 

[brennan]

You can fit 78 cities on a tiny map?! And presumably still be under Domination limit? I guess they are specialist farms...?

 

[Ozymandius]

You can fit 78 cities on a tiny map?! And presumably still be under Domination limit? I guess they are specialist farms...?

I'm five tiles away from domination on this one. It's tedious checking potential expansions, especially from any great wonders late in the game.

I think it is roughly 1 town per 6 squares on good stuff, about 8 squares for others. I have 620 tiles 78 towns.

I marooned the Zulu on St Helens, a two tile island.

 

[rysingsun]

okayyyyy ... after 122 painful milking hours i am finally ready to submit a hof game .... and i cannot for the life of me get my hands on my password for submitting. yes i pressed that button to send my password to my email. i even made sure my email address was current. so i tried following the recommendations on the hof page for emailing the staff and am getting nowhere there either.

could i get a bit of help from someone on this matter please?