Hatty - Monarch Cookbook Mark II (IC concurrent)

[i_imperator]

@Vranasm:Good points, especially about sailing, i checked the save JC dose not have religion but charlie is buddist. I forgot that Asoka was in this game, maby it was a good idea to rush one tech whore after all. Great library is kinda important for this map. I seriously think the capital will be a good GP farm if we build it there. HE should be in shaka's old cap. I might take COL from oracle then and then tech sailing>Math> Currency> Aesth>trade for alpha>trade for calender>Literature> then civil service. Is it too late to try for the Great Lighthouse to get those extra trade routes in the cap?

 

[vranasm]

I wouldnt bother with TGL... there is soo much land that we need the hammers elsewhere and we have no stone...
dont forget you would need lighthouse too.

 

[cripp7]

Taking Currency from Oracle would be best, then go Sail>CoL>Aesth(trade for Alpha)>Calendar>Lit
I agree about Monarchy not being needed for awhile, with all the from resources.

Send a wb out exploring, but what about open borders with JC to explore him out.

I missed 1st round, but would like to jump in on this round.

 

[vranasm]

Taking Currency from Oracle would be best, then go Sail>CoL>Aesth(trade for Alpha)>Calendar>Lit
I agree about Monarchy not being needed for awhile, with all the from resources.

Send a wb out exploring, but what about open borders with JC to explore him out.

I missed 1st round, but would like to jump in on this round.

hmm I value calendar over currency on this map... I think i will stick with CoL for the early religion

should be interesting what other approaches bring though

 

[vranasm]

just wanted to note that in IC club of our game is now great discussion about importance of HR...
I am thinking about it now... I first didnt prioritize Monarchy because of calendar resources, but probably could be Monarchy worth the effort to self tech... i am not sure... will have to think through it a bit...and most important see it ingame after I get priesthood+sailing.

 

[cripp7]

You can pick up Monarchy from a trade by the time you hit the cap with all the resources connected.

 

[vranasm]

You can pick up Monarchy from a trade by the time you hit the cap with all the resources connected.

well we will see how quickly the AIs get alpha first ;-)

I think i will stop thinking too much and start playing ... I am affraid I will have not the patience not to finish the round today

 

[Siran]

Done...

Spoiler :

I took a completely different path than the one discussed here although I did build the Oracle.

Researched in that order:
Priesthood, Alphabet, Iron Working, Mathematics, Calendar, Metal Casting, Monarchy, Construction, Code of Laws
Got Currency from the Oracle
Traded for Sailing, Masonry, Archery, Monotheism, Meditation

I'm curios how trading for Alphabet works for the others. All the other civilizations had no Alphabet when I got there. I micromanaged Alphabet and the Oracle to death, always afraid I wouldn't get Alphabet before the Oracle was built or somebody else would build it...
Whipped the Oracle in the end and got Currency the turn I research Alphabet.

I couldn't defend all the territory and in the end had some trouble to get me an Iron site. All in all I've got 10 cities, captured three from barbs and build 4 settlers.

I'm still pretty bad with my army but I didn't want to fight against Ceasars Prets in the Iron Age.
I'm at war with India to please Katherine. Killed an archer and a scout in my territory and Asoka is happy to accept peace. Charlemagne is pleased with me, Caesar is so so but not really planning a war so far.

 

[vranasm]

My round 2

Spoiler :

i started peacefully as planned, copied my tech plan with priesthood->sailing->aesth->math->calendar. Then i dont have notes...but I think next was literature->Currency.

I really crashed hard...and when hard I mean I had to use around 100BC a lot of MM to not strike! I think I underestimated a lot the early courthouses available and concentrated on other things too much.
I dont like the amount of GPs produced...I have only 1 produced yet and that build academy in cap. Then i tried to make GPPs here and there but not consistent enough.

I managed to get CS at 199T (385AD) CS though and have nicely improved land (I hope you will like it!). 11 cities.

I first converted julius to Confu as planned and Charle was unhappy with it...but the unhappiness growed too much, so when JC DoWed Cathy after a while i switched to budhism to please Charle.

I am starting building units for defense since everyone is a bit forward and except for wealth i dont have that many meaningful options.

I started teching Paper, 1T of investment.

I managed to get Great Library and Temple of Artemis in capital.

One of complications (big complications!) was that Alphabet was teched at 110BC!! that delayed me a lot :-(. But i got my share of trades...IW, monarchy from the more important ones.

 

[vranasm]

@siran

Spoiler :

not teching alpha went really really tough... I almost pulled my hairs :-(
when finally JC teched alpha at 100BC I was like "yay! the world is saved'
dunno what Asoka did all the time

 

[lymond]

I missed 1st round, but would like to jump in on this round.

bring it on, crippman

 

[MathNerd]

With school starting up and all, it looks like my Civ time will be limited to once a weekend or so, so I don't think I'll be able to play the rounds. I guess I'll have to drop out before I even began...

 

[cripp7]

Round 2

Spoiler :

Teched Priest>Sail>Aesth>IW(trade)>CoL(oracle)>Monarchy(trade)>Lit>Alpha(trade)> Currency>Calendar>Partial CS
I had to declare on Asoka to get friendly with Cathy. Needed another city up north, it's pretty blank. Popped a GS and bulbed Philo, still need an academy.

Spoiler pics :

 

[Invalice]

Here's my save.

Spoiler :

While playing I did my best to record my thoughts as the turns went by. Kind of stopped in the AD though

Spoiler :

1500BC
- Next two cities will be placed by the cows just East of Charlie in an attempt to block him off. Other will be NE of Timbuktu to block JC and grab a second horse.
- Tech path will be Priesthood > Math > Oracle = Currency > Sailing (Trade routes and connect cities).
- Shaka city will produce the oracle, will chop it out.
- While the Marble West of Thebes will help with oracle, I am waiting on settling another city their until my block is up.
- Going to run specialists in Thebes to avoid overpop.
- Timbuktu will make setllers.
- After initial blocking, will make military units out of Shaka city and take over the barbarian cities. I figure the power rating will help with JC while netting me more cities.

975BC
- Oracle Complete, timed mathematics to finish a turn before Oracle. Ran out of positive income also at this moment.
- Founded a city to block off Charlie. JC managed to slip a settler by one of my warriors spawnbusting. Turns out "Sentry command" doesn't inform you when neutral players enter your area .

950BC
- JC managed to get a city on the hill West of the copper East of Timbuktu. I am going to throw down a city just NW to block him in. It is possible that I could force it to culture flip. I can't afford war so this is the best option.

720BC
- Had Science slider at 0 for a bit, raised it to 30 to start it up again with libraries going up in all cities.

485BC
- Running at 20% Science, things are getting a bit scary with the economic situation. Additionally, JC has several cities already. I might open borders to Charlie with hopes of him introducing his religion. I figure I can culture flip any cities he places.
455BC
- JC Threatened me to take one of my clams. I gave in. Both Charlie and JC are "elevated" threat level. I gave open borders to Charlie. I am going to start massing Axemen in the event of preats/swordsmen.
= Building Wealth in Thebes. It's letting me run Science at 40%.
410BC
- Opened borders to JC, wealth shot up. Totally forgot about trade routes. /facepalm. I'm going to take the opportunity to scout past him, maybe meet another civ.
260BC
- Both JC and Charlie are sending small armies of 3 units into my territory. I'm assuming its to take out the Barbarian cities. With Calender about to finish I am gearing up to start a new set of settlements so I am mobilizing my army to take the Barb cities first.
140BC
- I took the Barbarian City by the wine. With IW about to complete I will have a chance to fill in the jungle area. I will be skirting close to 0% Science soon. I will focus on building more workers to clean up the jungle. While buffing up my military presence in border cities.
- Finished the Temple of Artemis in Shaka's old capital. Not sure if it was worth it.
125BC
- Charlie took the Barbarian city sitting on Insence "Cherokee". I have no worries as this city is landlocked and will surely end up getting culture flipped. I begin research COL to begin my way towards Liberalism.
- Threat levels from Charlie and JC have gone down a bit. They are both able to attack Asoka and/or Catherine. I am Catherine's worst enemy after she fought a war with Asoka.

I will be adding pictures hopefully sometime tomorrow.
Strategy

Spoiler :

Started out by getting some quick cities to block JC and CHarlie. Charlie got one of my barb cities but I believe I can culture flip him. Founded Confucianism in Memphis (city with dyes) and built its holy shrine thanks to the Temple of Artemis popping a great prophet. It will be a wonderful Wall Street city with its Calender resources and cottages. Initially I went Math and used the Oracle to pick up Currency. I then tried to match the military power of JC (to avoid war) and filled in some of my land. I could have gotten more cities out, however, I don't think I would have the holy shrine if I did.

Techs after this point were Sailing -> Calender -> COL -> IW -> CS

I was just switching into HR and Bureaucracy when 400AD hit. I am currently working on Philosophy.
I didn't use scientists in Thebes much, in retrospect I think I could have done better if I did and could have possibly gotten a few more cities.

I might add some more analysis later on if I find time.

 

[Trynthlas]

Spoiler Round 2 - 400 AD :

So, expansion + block off Charlie & JC! And the Oracle! And clean up barbarian cities! And don't suck it up on techs!

A tall order for me on Monarch, but I think I managed well enough. Certainly this game is already won (or at least from my view at the end of this round it is), it's just a matter of how soon and which victory type

Teched (in order): Priesthood -> Math -> Currency (Oracle) -> Masonry -> Sailing -> CoL -> Meditation -> Calendar -> IW -> Construction -> Alphabet -> Monarchy + Hunting (trade) -> Monotheism + Archery (trade) -> Aesthetics -> Lit -> CS (in progress)

Stupid AIs just wouldn't get Alpha, so I ended up doing it myself, in the AD's no less However, I was building stuff and running specialists which was probably just as good as building research or gold would have been otherwise. I think.

Cities Founded
Anasazi - T112 (1200BC) @ sugar/dye x3 (technically captured barb city)
Memphis - T120 (1000BC) @ horse/corn to NE of Timbuktu to block JC
Heliopolis - T123 (925BC) @ cow/spice/incense x2/(iron) to block Charlie
Elephantine - T127 (825BC) @ clam/silver/copper N of capitol for more
Alexandria - T135 (625BC) @ fish x2/deer/(iron) to pressure two of JC's cities and block any more expansion
<TBD> - T201 @ spices x3/sugar (1NW of where Djenne was, settler is in place and ready to go next turn)

Burned the other two barbarian cities as I was ready/needed the cash. Did not want to keep them (somewhat non-ideal placement and would have damaged economy more than helped).

Oracle was built by me on T116 on the same turn I finished Math, and used to grab Currency. Detoured to Masonry and Sailing before CoL for Pyramids and trade routes. Started 'mids on T122 and finished them on T149 with some heavy chopping around Ulundi. Immediate switch to Rep to give an even bigger boost to my specialists.

Popped 2 GS in Thebes -> 1st went to academy, 2nd settled.

As you can see in my city list above, expansion somewhat stalled mid-round. Besides pausing expansion to work on courthouses and the economy in general across the empire, I had some fun with JC which caused production to be diverted for a while (and pretty much determined the bent of the victory I'd be going for now).

T158, JC is looking ugly and doesn't like me due to close borders and religion...he's Hindu like Asoka and I'm best-Buddhist-buddies with Charlie. JC demands I give him gold (the resource) - I agree, but that just delays the inevitable.

T168 (10 turns on the dot), JC declares on me, but I really don't see any big stack of doom. Guess he was just pissy, but war is war!

In fact, by quickly massing my WCs I am able to raze Mediolanum on T176 (city closest to Timbuktu), and Arretium on T182. I go check out Ravenna, but my army isn't quite up to snuff for going after it. Also, JC is willing to pay me cash for peace so I take that deal on T185. However, I don't trust him to not come right back after me, PLUS after having converted Thebes and Ulundi into mass WC production for the duration of the conflict I've got something like 15 WCs so I continue (albeit at a slower pace) with army buildup - this time including catapults and axes.

At end of set, I have an available (non-city garrisoned) army of 17 WCs, 3 catapults, and 4 axes.

Also due to the war, I'm just now getting buddhist missionaries built (from Thebes) to spread the religion around. It hasn't been needed for but now that I got Monotheism and switched to OR, it will be useful for building stuff. Other than units, obviously.

Micro wasn't perfect, but it wasn't bad either, so I'm pretty happy with this set. Leaning heavily towards a military end victory, but could always just beat up JC and then go be peaceful again.

Map shots and some status screens in the spoiler below.

Spoiler Images :

Spoiler Further thoughts :

So, my plan here is to continue building an army while ALSO settling the last 3 or 4 good plots of the territory while ALSO building Great Library and Forbidden Palace (in Thebes and Timbuktu respectively). Heroic Epic would be good somewhere, but Ulundi really doesn't need it as it already produces a unit every 2 turns. Might be worth building there regardless.

As soon as a decent number of catapults is acquired, conquest of JC can begin thanks to the mass of WCs already built and reinforced by axes available and being built.

Tech path would look something like: CS -> Music (get the artist for golden age) -> MC -> Machinery. After that I'd have to make a judgement call on going towards Liberalism or delaying a bit further and grabbing Guilds for more WAR!

Obviously my plan doesn't affect the state of the save, but food for thought!

 

[Gumbolt]

Done...

Spoiler :

I took a completely different path than the one discussed here although I did build the Oracle.

Researched in that order:
Priesthood, Alphabet, Iron Working, Mathematics, Calendar, Metal Casting, Monarchy, Construction, Code of Laws
Got Currency from the Oracle
Traded for Sailing, Masonry, Archery, Monotheism, Meditation

I'm curios how trading for Alphabet works for the others. All the other civilizations had no Alphabet when I got there. I micromanaged Alphabet and the Oracle to death, always afraid I wouldn't get Alphabet before the Oracle was built or somebody else would build it...
Whipped the Oracle in the end and got Currency the turn I research Alphabet.

I couldn't defend all the territory and in the end had some trouble to get me an Iron site. All in all I've got 10 cities, captured three from barbs and build 4 settlers.

I'm still pretty bad with my army but I didn't want to fight against Ceasars Prets in the Iron Age.
I'm at war with India to please Katherine. Killed an archer and a scout in my territory and Asoka is happy to accept peace. Charlemagne is pleased with me, Caesar is so so but not really planning a war so far.

Thoughts on round.

Spoiler :

You are way short on workers. 8 is not nearly enough. You have far too much forest left too.

Your science at 100 is okay but considering you have great light house maybe you should be further along.

For me Thebes was a let down. Size 13-14 and you have not got all the FP cottaged yet. Workers!!!

I think you are way ahead of the Ai but I think most saves will be.

 

[Gumbolt]

vranasm - Thoughts on round.

Spoiler :

Looks a much stronger round. Science up in the 170 area. Great library in Thebes. Lots of cottages around Timbuktu and Thebes.

Not sure why Unlundi is not using the Gold. Heroic epic site? Not built yet either.

Major let down is the GP farm or lack of. I built a GP farm using Pigs/2 clams and wheat next to Thebes. I was running 5-6 scientists by 400ad and had national epic set up too.

There is more you could of done.

The 2 GS you did have I would of bulbed for edu and lib.

You also need to chain irrigate the rice and wheat near Cherokee.

Be wary of HRE and what units he may have. You have no real stack to defend your empire with.

 

[Gumbolt]

Cripps _ thoughts on round (Updated)

Spoiler :

The first thing I looked at was Thebes. Firstly size 8 is so small. Secondly it is not working all the cottages. You have HR so their is no problem growing the city. Stop using the clams and work the cottages. You had just whipped a market.

For me you have 12 workers but it seems short for 11 cities. So much forest and other tiles still to be worked.

No national Epic or Heroic epic built yet. You have no real GP farm either. The site with 2 clams/pigs/wheat was ideal. Alexandria could run 4 scientists with caste system.

You have a shrine in Timbuktu. 15 gold a turn. woot.

If you up slider to 60% Cripps is soon up to 147 science. Run wealth in Ulundi and he is closer to 158 science a turn.

An academy in his capital would of been nice. Philosophy is just as good.

He was working 2-3 decent commerce sites. He still had 2-3 high commerce resources left to use. Cripps may well be in the top 3 in voting.

He needs to be wary of HRE stack. He has had 2 great people so far.

I still find Giza hard to swallow. -10.5 upkeeps. Courthouse asap.

Sorry for such a critical first review. Was not called for. I am sure you will build NE and HE is people play from this save.

 

[Gumbolt]

Invalice - Thoughts

Spoiler :

Bit of a strange save. Again Thebes is not running the cottages. You are lacking a real great person farm. I really don't think Thebes is it. Heliopolis was a strange city. Better to have used the pigs/wheat and clams or silver city.

You have room for 1 more cities east of Thebes and 1 north and 1 south. How did HRE grab the city east of Thebes?

You are a bit behind on techs compared to the other saves. You also have 3-4 less cities. Not sure why you put a blcoker city by JC. The upkeep is 10.5 gold a turn. You had enough land already.

Not sure why you didn't settle the silver city earlier.

I think your tech situ is so behind as you built too many blocker cities so far away from Thebes. Cities closer to the capital have a cheaper upkeep.

Other saves had lit/ paper and other techs.

 

[Gumbolt]

Trynthlas - thoughts

Spoiler :

Okay tech is around 100 science. Not great considering the AI capitals captured.

Lack of workers. 6 for 8 cities. You needed 12 workers or so.

No great person farm.

You have 2 huge stacks of WC sitting doing nothing outside JC borders. I would declare next turn and send them all to Rome. It would fall in 3-4 turns. No idea how long this stack has been sitting there. You do need feudalism.

If you had done this it would of made your save stand out by far. Three Ai crippled. Still you are by no means strongest techer but you have an army.