Hegemon

[7ronin]

Ram: Rambuchan of London, you who resides on that strange, distant island which floats on the edge of the Great Ocean which encircles the world, I bring you greetings from my Lord King Miletos of Ionia. Know that now (ca 640 B.C.E.) our empire boasts of sixteen great cities. All kings of other lands tremble before us. We have fought a small war with Lydia in which we conquered one of their cities and destroyed another. Soon we will invade Lydia again and such is our power that we soon cause Helicarnassus to bend their knees before us.

I made a beeline for bronze working and am now concentrating on getting to iron working. I haven't paid much attention to governments; perhaps it's time for a change. When I play a game for the first time, I always play at the easiest level in order to get a relaxed idea of what is going on and how the mechanics work. Ionia seems to be a good choice: lots of room to expand and only three neighbors.

Comments: 1. Change the text to reflect Hetacombs. Now, when you successfully drop one off, it talks about "princesses." 2. Some of the artwork shows up with black areas in it. 3. Why not use Plotinus's Greek Workers? 4. Is there a Greek name for settlers? I like this game!!

Blue: By what magic have you wrought a map of the known world? A step by step exposition for the computer disadvantaged please.

 

[Rambuchan]

Wow. I leave you guys for just a day and you start coming up with game reports and finished games? Brilliant!

Blue - Thank you kindly for the insights. I am noticing that Sparta do make a dash for the islands, which is a little bit not what I want. I guess it's just their location on the southern Peloponnese. In amongst the things I'm working on now I think I have a plan to get them to lay off doing that. Let's see if it works.

Rathvilly - It's really great to hear from you. Thank you so much for posting. Which were the two Hegemonic Resources you didn't manage to get? And did the AI trade you any of those that you did get? I'm retuning the Hegemonic Victory for the next version, so it'd be useful to know.

When I played as Athens (in the very earliest version of the game) I too faced down with Sparta like you, but it turned out to be major carnage between us - which was good in a way. I got a tech lead so had superior troops, but they had serious numbers and some especially hard guys to contend with too. I never finished that war of attrition however, itching too much to fix various things. With one of the new features I've implemented, as well as some other tweaks, I think I should be able to curtail Sparta's insane unit production. But they need to still be heavy and use their military might to pull diplomacy strings when their Kraken awakens.

I agree with you about the tech research rate, though Athens in particular are meant to mostly be ahead in that department anyway and usually are. Most other civs you play with won't manage what you've done with Athens. But you've confirmed my thoughts on this and I'm going to bump up the cost of the techs in both the Classical and Hegemonic eras, as well as other things. And I'm tossing around ideas about introducing new techs in the final era too, which will likely be unique techs for certain powerhouse civs to bring forth their 'Leagues' with a variety of more historical improvements (you can guess the likely contenders!) In fact, what I'm working on brings out the Leagues much much more and I'm quite excited about sharing that with you all.

Regarding things slowing down in the second half: Yes, I am keenly aware of this. For the upgrade I've pulled of everything that can be done without upsetting the essentials of this game.

Good thoughts about another victory condition. I'm really open to these suggestions. I wanted to create something that would be a real challenge to win. And also something that emulated and focussed on the general bickering between the Greeks, until the Hegemony of Phillip II got them all to shut up that is. I'm still trying to make my mind up here. The other victory condition I'm toying with the most is actually a Diplomatic Victory. But, equally, I would like to offer something like a Trade Victory as you suggest, especially for Athens, as that would well evoke the 'jealousy and fear' Sparta and others felt about them. It is in fact an excellent suggestion you make. What I just need to be careful of with such a victory is the VPs and the various treasures running around in the game. Those who build a large empire in the right places could amass VPs rather quickly. But that could be a good thing. As you see, I'm still torn

The land bridge on the Hellespont is something I thought long and hard about. I tried it initially but found that Thrace just steamed through a bit too much and borders became unrealistic. If there's a way of having this work (curious about your suggestion as I'm not to sure what it really entails) then I'd be up for it. If not, I think it works fine as is.

And yes, as 7ronin is finding, the game over in Asia Minor is a very different one to play. It's all about domination over there and I've retuned the percentages for the Domination victory to 40% land and 50% population. I'd be interested to hear thoughts on whether that seems about right, without handing things to Thrace that is, who incidentally I managed to totally crush with Macedonia in the late game. Revenge is a sweet thing and, after all, Herodotus saw it as a prime motivator of historical action.

Comments: 1. Change the text to reflect Hetacombs. Now, when you successfully drop one off, it talks about "princesses." 2. Some of the artwork shows up with black areas in it. 3. Why not use Plotinus's Greek Workers? 4. Is there a Greek name for settlers? I like this game!!

Hello Miletos

1. Yes, I will fix that. Didn't get round to it before. 2. I'm nearly done with cleaning up those icons. Been busy with all the new ones that are coming in. 3. I'll have to have a hunt around for Plotinus' Greek worker. Wasn't aware of it. 4. I dunno, is there a Greek name for settlers? If so, I'll surely put it in. Colonists would probably be a better English term and I'm also thinking of axing colonists from the game altogether anyway.

Little tip for you: Take on Lydia and reduce them to slavery before they besmirch the names of your gods and heroes. Croesus may have been the first non-Greek to give tribute at Delphi but he's still a bit too Persian in his empire building ways.

 

[7ronin]

My Ionian game is proceeding apace. I knocked off three more civs: the Trojans, the Docecanese, and the Lydians. I'm glad you changed the domination requirements; it would be tough to win the way I'm playing now.

At first I thought Princesses were something special and I used them sparingly. Turns out they're just another unit. I've found that I can attack a city with two princesses, two lagoforos, and two panti-watchamacallits, with a lagoforos in reserve and almost always take the city down. The biggest problem I have is distance. With this game you begin to see the difficulties of ancient warfare and how important sea lines were. I think if you play in Asia Minor you can pretty much ignore what goes on in the West and vice versa. All the Asia Minor civs have lots of room to expand. Those in the West look pretty jammed up (except for Krete) and conflict prone. I like the tech tree.

 

[Rambuchan]

Hi there! Bloody good work 7ronin!! You Asiatic champion, you! Do you think you can attain the Domination Victory? Can you post a screenie of the western side please? It'd be helpful to see what they've been up to.

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Update:

I'm nearly there with posting the new version. Should come in the next few days. I'm just testing some of the new features to make sure they work and for balance. I'm also writing all the new pedia entries and amending the old ones to inform of the various changes.

I do believe the new version is very much improved. There are many changes right across the board, both major and minor ones. These include:

New Features:

Leagues: The top flight civs of Athens, Sparta, Thebes and Macedonia now have their historical leagues in the later game, evoking the Peloponnesian Wars and later struggles for Hegemony. These Leagues offer each of them one unique wonder named after the league, which APs multi-unit Hoplites, and a line of unique improvements which evoke the strategic realities these civs faced. These improvements tie them to the relevant hotspots on the map in history and also to the governments they operated in history.
Tribal Camps: New unique improvement available to all but the most minor civs. These AP the new Champion unit and give unique benefits tailored to each civ.
Tribal Resources: As mentioned previously in the thread. These very much up the strategic interplay and historical info and reality. They can function as Hegemonic Resources (for that victory), League Resources (as above) and/or Tribal Resources (for camps). Episema and coins from the period have been used as artwork. I think they look pretty.
New Tribute Victory: Tribute points are acquired via tribute given to the Gods and received in taxation (especially Athens), as well as the usual VP things, those these are less important.
Trophies: This is the solution I came up with for radar towers. They now add more strategy, historical info and beauty.

New Game Balance:

Faster Turn Times: Air trade now implemented, map cropped and Trade Ports brought in for accessing key resources on the islands.
Tech Tree Tweaked: It now takes longer to get through it, timing it closer to history. Also altered the Hegemonic Era Tech Tree, only slightly, but it makes a difference.
Hegemonic Victory: Oaths of Fealty now cheaper to build. More of each Hegemonic resource on the map, so acquiring them should be easier. On the flipside, there are more Oaths you need to acquire now, evoking the historical realities better (eg. Thassos and the Pangaion Mines)
Domination Victory: Tweaked to what should be more achievable now for Thrace and the Asiatic civs to go for. The western Greeks may have to do something to stop them.
New Tribute Victory Condition: As above, giving players another target to go for.
Removed Imperial Roads (Railroads): Why did I ever leave them in?!?!

New Artwork:

Mines, now called estates.
Borders
Advisors
City graphics
Some new pedia icons, though I've been having real trouble with these for some reason.
New leaderheads and leaders

New Wonders:

Long Walls of Athens
Serpent Column
Renamed and retuned some of the existing ones
Tied some of the existing ones to the appropriate civs (eg. Lysander's Fleet only available to Sparta now) and added the four leagues mentioned above

New Units:

Confederate Hoplite: late game multi-unit from Serpent Column Wonder.
League Hoplite: late game multi-unit from League Wonders.
Phalanx: late game multi-unit from Macedonia's League Wonder.
The Rebel: Ionia and Aiolia's new unique unit, amphibious upsetter.
The Champion: Available to all but only via the tribal camps. Rare, stealth attacking, monster.
Flavoured settlers and workers: With appropriate artwork.
Also, renamed a bunch of units for further historical info and entertainment.

Other suprises!



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I want to say a big thank you to all of you who DLed, played and posted their feedback and advice so far. It is very much appreciated. Your kind assistance and keen insights have really helped improve the scenario for the benefit of the whole community.

 

[geminisama]

This update sounds epic, Rambuchan!

 

[Blue Monkey]

Quick comments:

The whole map screenshot is actually CnP work from multiple screenshots of the zoomed out view.

Shouldn't at least one of the Asia minor civs be "top flight"? Troy?

If the splashes / icons continue to give you trouble let me know. I can do some palette work on them.

 

[Rambuchan]

Oh yeah, Lydia is very much top flight. They are set up for a domination victory on that side of the map. Though I'm trying not to make it a complete cake walk for them, so that it'll be some fun to play as other civs over there.

Lydia ruled pretty much the whole of western Asia Minor at their height, in the first half of the 6th century BC, under King Croesus. Until, that is, he thought he could take on Cyrus and the westward advance of the Persians. Big mistake. Croesus was the epitomy of "hubris/hybris" and I've refered to him and that a number of times all around the pedia. Anyone care to bless us with the Oracle of Delphi told him when he sought advice whether to attack Cyrus?

I'm going to give the splashes and icons another shot tomorrow (as well as complete my half drafted PM). Been madly tied up today. If I fail again on the icons, I'll holler. Thank you kindly Monkey Magic.

 

[Rathvilly]

The items I didn’t get for victory were the Fealty of Lakonia (both resources) and Barbarian Fealty – was missing Thrakian Subjects – could’ve got this in another war with the Thracians who aren’t so bad to take on if you’re well prepared. While earlier in the game you could trade for the resources, they all seemed to be locked away in trade deals later on – had to fight !
On bridging the Hellespont, I was thinking along the lines of a worker later in the game upgrading to another worker (engineer) who is able to road some impassable terrain – you’d have to tinker with the current wheeled/unwheeled designation of units so it might be too much bother …. and as you've said its all about Greece ! Once again good stuff etc and looking forward to the updates.

 

[Blue Monkey]

Anyone care to bless us with the Oracle of Delphi told him when he sought advice whether to attack Cyrus?

I'll miss the exact quote, but basically: if you go to war a great empire will be destroyed. Too bad he didn't realize which one.

 

[7ronin]

Ram: Have you seen Stico's Troy city graphic? Take a look; perhaps you can use it.

 

[Keroro]

Ram: Have you seen Stico's Troy city graphic? Take a look; perhaps you can use it.

Seconded.

The trophy idea for radar towers is neat, I like it. Lots of updates there Rambuchan, I look forward to it.

 

[Rambuchan]

geminisama - Yes, the update is epic. I think I've done more work on the new version than I did on the first.

Rathvilly - Thanks for the info. Very much appreciated. You'll be pleased to learn, I'm sure, that the retuned Hegemonic Victory does not include attaining an Oath of Fealty from Sparta. After all, they remained out of the League of Cornith / Hellenes League, which the Hegemonic Victory is designed upon. You'll also be pleased to hear that I've brought in that victory condition you suggested. It's not a trade victory (the Ancient Greeks weren't all that good at it till much later). It's a Tribute Victory and is explained fully in the opening screen of the new version. Indeed, I've fully explained all the new features. I decided to skip on the landbridge option. I'm not too confident about implementing it to be honest, somewhat put off by my previous tests at connecting the two continents. That doesn't mean to say it can't be considered in future.

Blue Monkey - Correctamundo!! That is what the Delphic Oracle told Croesus. Classic story that and I've referred to it a few times in the pedia.

Keroro - Yes, I think the trophies are pretty good fun and certainly add something extra. From my game testing I see the AI love them. And yes, lots of new features. The big boned lady of the first version definitely had a chowdown - and put on weight.

7ronin - Yes, of course I saw those city graphics from stico. They went in for sure! I also grabbed the Greek worker you suggested - together with about 10 other settlers and even more workers. Thanks for point that out to me. Brilliant units from Plotinus those.

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The new version is uploading as I type!

Will be a while as the game folder has grown considerably with all the updated material and features. I hope to be able to post the new version this evening.

 

[Vuldacon]

Rambuchan... Excellent Work Good Buddy
... If you are still having problems with any Splashes or Civilopedia Icons, I would be happy to correct them for you.

 

[Rambuchan]

Vuldacon - Top man! Thank you kindly for the offer. The icons didn't work out for me. I tried a few times and I'm obviously ballsing it up somewhere. It's something that needs to be done to get to fully polished status for sure. If you're up for it then I would be most grateful indeed. Definitely lacking a graphics partner on this project.

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UPGRADE HAS BEEN POSTED.

See the OP. Please report any bugs and anomalies.

I have edited post #5 to provide some important notes on this version and requests for feedback and help.

 

[Keroro]

Downloading the update now. Have just bought a flat today, which was scary. While I have no money I'll need something to do...

Palettes are tricky to master. Vuldacon will see you right of course, but I'll look out for any that aren't appearing correctly and shall try to update as I go. I'm an avid civpedia reader so I'm sure if there are any I'll find them. As Blue Monkey said at one point in this thread too - sometimes a graphics program will delete entries in the palette when it saves as an indexed pcx file. Frustrating for those not already conversant with palettes, but very easy to put right if you're well versed.

 

[Virote_Considon]

Downloading now; dunno when I will have a chance to play as I'm back home for a month on the 10th.

Also, hi Keroro!

 

[Rambuchan]

My good fellows. Thank you so much for the interest, DLs and support. You give a hardworking pooped out modder heart. And you know we need it! I hope you have much fun!!

Keroro - Congrats on the flat purchase! My wife and I are heading in that direction in the next few months and, frankly, I'm crapping my pants. The whole thing is quite contrary to my (now former?) political persuasions. But I did come to one important realisation about purchasing property and this is it:

You're an idiot paying the banks shedloads of money in interest if you take on a mortgage.
You're an even bigger idiot paying shedloads of money to a landlord if you rent.
Best the lesser of the two evils.

Wow, any help with those icons would be a real blessing. Thank you. Hope you enjoy the pedia entries I have gotten round to writing.

Virote - Thanks thank thanks. I hope you have a good break over Chrimbo. I checked into SteamPunk world btw. There's a whole lot going on and I didn't know where to start. I need to take a break from Hegemon for a bit (will of course return and deliver a fully polished scenario) and thought I'd see what I could do to help out ideas-wise. PMs, links to summaries and all that would help.

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NOTES ON v1.3

I've now edited post #5 with notes on major and minor flaws with v1.3. You'll need to know about the major one at least as you play. Don't worry. There's nothing game breaking. I've made sure of that! Least I think I have.

 

[Keroro]

Yes, hi Virote. Nice to see you (well, post you anyway).

@ Rambuchan - I do rather know what you mean. I've been trying to resist getting on this particular bandwagon but couldn't justify what renting costs in London these days. Though all property is obviously theft, it's not such bad theft if it's my property. Good luck with your own search.

I'll be in Streatham if you're ever popping by.

Back to civ briefly - what I've seen of the pedia entries are excellent and wonderfully in character. Very good job with them.

 

[Rambuchan]

Agreed 100% on your property thoughts Keroro. I'll resist going off on one with the whole topic for now. Maybe if we ever meet for beers or something (I'm in Stoke Newington) we can guff on about it more.

Oh, I'm glad you're liking the pedia entries and that someone actually reads them. I find they add huge flavour to a piece. If you're an avid fan and reader of Herodotus and Thucydides you'll likely spot where I've cribbed some bits. But, even in those rare instances, I've taken care to 'Rambuchan them up'.

 

[Virote_Considon]

I definitely like the pedia entries you've done. The unique style is plenty appreciated!

I wouldn't say I'm one of the Steampunk guys - I've got an interest in the project, but the guys who really make the magic work who I'd look to on it are Blue Monkey, King Arthur and Balthasar, among several others

And speaking of buyings of drinks in London *points to sig D)*, I'll be there on the 27th/28th of December, with a Civfanatics meet looking at least slightly likely on the 28th. That is, if anyone feels like coming along!