Help leverging spiritual trait

[Merovinge]

Hey everyone, I'm new to the site, having just grabbed civ4 complete about a month ago in preparation for civ 5. I played civ 2 extensively growing up as a child, got disgusted at civ 3 corruption and only played SMAC accordingly.

Ive read pretty much everything on these forums, am pretty comfortable with the game now having little trouble with prince unless I get a horrific start. I'm playing around with most of the financial leaders, I really love Darius and Huyana, and I am trying to get better with Mali, but I feel like I never utilize spiritual to its fullest.

Does anyone have tips of microing around civics/religion to get more out of the trait. I've read people love it at higher difficulties for positive foreign relations, but I was just wondering if there was any more nuance to that.

Thanks for keeping a great set of forums here, such a welcome change from what I am used to.

 

[DaveMcW]

Every 5 turns, look at what you're building in most cities. Switch to a civic that boosts it.

 

[bakshi]

A good thing for spiritual is right before you start preparing for war switch to vassalage and theocracy for some nice starting promos.

 

[lymond]

It boils down to the flexibility of switching into a religion or "favorite civic" without penalty, both of which provide bonus diplo points. You can do so every 5 turns.

Spiritual is pretty good for warmongering as you can switch into vassalage and/or theo - two civics I rarely run long term - for the xp boost to troops. This would include nationhood as well.

I also use it to switch into civics temporarily to boost something particular. I think Mids and Shweda are often good for spiritual since you have the flexibility to say switch to Rep/Caste/Pacifism during a golden age or Universal Suffrage to rush buy some infra or units much earlier in the game.

Bottom line - Spiritual just has so much flexibility in terms of using Civics to your advantage which makes it one of the better traits.

 

[Ramanag]

Welcome to the forums, Alex.

 

[georgjorge]

Dave's comment is pretty good already. But for more detail...

First, Pyramids increases the value you get out of Spiritual quite a bit. Consider the following: In games where you plan to conquer an AI at one point of the game, the best point to do it is often when you gain a military tech advantage such as Steel or Rifling. Spiritual allows you to switch from "research mode" into "war mode" instantly when you get that advantage. Research mode: Representation - Bureaucracy - Caste System - Pacifism. War mode: Police State - Vassalage/Nationhood - Theocracy - Slavery (unless you have many workshops).

If it's only a one-time switch after you get a certain technology, then you can just use a Golden Age for that. But if you continue with it - say, after taking cities with Knights, others have discovered ways to deal with them, so you make peace and go into research mode again - then Spiritual is great.

Second, in the early to mid game, Spiritual is very important in getting you Great Scientists (or Merchants) via Caste System while still allowing you to whip infrastructure if you time your builds a bit so in can be done in five turns of Slavery. Even if you're running Financial leaders, a food-heavy city can put out a lot of Great People this way, whereas otherwise you would first have to build a Market, Grocer and Forge to run enough of them, and all the time you're working Mines to build those you could have run farms and gotten out some Great People already.

The same principle works with Universal Suffrage (off Pyramids in an early war, or in the late game) - a civic whose long-term gains are often smaller than that of Representation, but which you still want to use occasionally for production.

Third, if you have to deal with a surprise attack from the AI, Spiritual is the thing that can save your city from being overrun by switching to Slavery or Nationhood and immediately using it to make several units, where having to wait for two turns of anarchy can be far too late.

Fourth, you can use Spiritual with espionage to switch AIs into unfavorable religions or civics. If you can't bribe anyone to make war against your enemy, switch into a unpopular religion, use a spy to get the enemy to switch as well and thus get him negative relations, bribe someone, and switch back (your enemy will also switch back, but the damage will be done). Or just before a war you can switch to a non-Slavery/non-Nationhood civic, switch your war target to that, then go back (time it so you can use the spy just before you declare, and switch back immediately afterwards). You continue drafting and whipping units, but your enemy can't unless he waits five turns and then takes some anarchy, which is deadly in a fast war. On higher levels, where the AI can whip a unit every turn in a threatened city, that's a lot of units you just won't have to face (and bigger cities you conquer as well).

 

[SillyGoat]

Check your civics every 5 turns. Swap into whatever civics boost your empire the best for the next 5 turns. Rinse. Repeat.

 

[VoiceOfUnreason]

Every 5 turns, look at what you're building in most cities. Switch to a civic that boosts it.

Also: learn to synchronize what you are building in your cities, so that you maximize the benefit of the civics you are running.

 

[goodolarchie]

If you really enjoy micromanagement, Spirtual is a wet dream in terms of flexibility.

 

[Merovinge]

Dave's comment is pretty good already. But for more detail...

Awesome, thank you so much for pushing my head a bit with the optimization. Thanks much!

 

[Merovinge]

Welcome to the forums, Alex.

Heh it's appreciated but almost just automatic compared to what I am used to. I play either Civ or Dota/HoN/LoL, so the difference between here and there is like being poor in Scandinavia or being poor in mainland China.

 

[Agramon]

There are a number of things to exploit with spiritual.

Queue up not fully built troops and then change to Theo/vass to produce 5 max promoted units in 5 turns. Then switch back.

If you build Globe in a food rich city, switch to nationhood for a while to draft to your hearts content. Go back to your other fav civic and recover.

Build up infra with slavery/org rel and change to pac/caste for max GP.

of course more options earlier with Mids.

Change religious sides in war. Kill your buddhist neighboor with help of hinduist neighbour. Switch to buddhist and go after hinduist neighbour. Sudden religious relation boost also increases trading as well as ability to initiate wars to keep AI busy.

P.S.: Spiritual is incredibly helpful on marathon huge pangaea, where diplomacy is a mess.

 

[ahcos]

just use different setups for what you're planing:

1. bureaucracy/OR/slavery/state property for fastbuilding wonders or anything
2. pacifism/caste system/mercantilism for starvation on purpose for more great people (although this also might be done while in a golden age)
3. nationhood/vassalage/theocracy/police state/slavery while at war or in war preparations
4. pure economy buildup with universal suffrage/bureaucracy/free speech/emancipation

5. you can switch out or in state religion as you wish, e.g.: you ship over to the other continent and want to do some trades as soon as you meet them and want to avoid religious hatred - switch out of state religion, problem solved.

6. perfect diplomacy - need a certain tech a AI doesn't want to trade? switch into his religion, favourite civic and get the trade by abusing "friendly" status. or if you're on a map with AIs demanding to adopt their civic/religion - easy with spiritual.

7. you can quickly react to dagger DoW's by switching into nationhood/slavery/even US if enough cash is available (and, even more important, you have actually teched to democracy, something you don't have to do nessecarily if you're pursuing a culture victory for example..)

especially the fast switch between war civics - economy civics, easy diplomacy and the switch free speech / bureaucracy for important wonders is just brilliant. spiritual is a trait you'll love as soon as you've moved up in difficulty, it's not so hot on lower levels but certainly great on higher difficulties.

early on you're able to give your economy a little boost with cheap temples even before monarchy, plus they help to fight culture wars a little bit ..

 

[WCH]

starvation on purpose for more great people

Could you explain this, please?

 

[shyuhe]

Could you explain this, please?

Go into caste system to run more great people, at the cost of starving your cities. If you stack it with pacifism, NE, and possibly a golden age, it can make a big difference. Generally GP farms have ample food so you can grow back the lost population pretty quickly.

 

[Brian Shanahan]

Could you explain this, please?

Go into caste system/build enough buildings that create slots. Run as many of the relevant specialiast citizens as you can. This will cause starvation, especially early on. You'll get your Great Person quickly, but the city will lose population.

Edit: beat by Shyuhe with a better post. The problem with posting on two forums and watching a video and playing a game and forgetting to refresh.

 

[NihilZero]

I'm pretty much going to repeat what has already been said here, but I like praising Spiritual as it's one of my favourites and it injects a unique element of fun into the game.

The usefulness of Spiritual is only limited by your creativity with the civics. I have even used Serfdom once or twice with it.

Every civic has its drawbacks. With Spiritual you can use civics for only their advantages (kind of) and minimise or bypass the drawbacks. You are also supremely adaptable and flexible. Less need to fear a surprise attack when you can draft units whenever you like (Saladin is almost impossible to sucker-punch with his instant PRO draftees). No need to be stuck in slavery when you are not actively using it for a few turns, or to be stuck without it when it really would come in handy for a quick whip or two.

The best thing about Spiritual in this regard is that it actually improves all the civics, because you never have to be stuck with them. And, in a way, its almost like having more than one civic active in each category (since a lot of them are only really active when you use them specifically - slavery being the obvious example).

I wrote about an example of some diplo manipulation in this post: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=8981619&postcount=14. Spiritual is ideal for this kind of thing (although I had the Cristo in this game, same principle applies) and works best in conjunction with espionage. There are a lot of diplomatic problems that can be solved this way, with a little creative thinking.

Lastly, don't forget that those expensive temples become pretty viable, making things like Sankore, Spiral Minaret and the AP pretty tempting.

 

[UWHabs]

Best way is to use everything.

In so many games, I might decide that my bureaucracy cap is too good to switch to Nationalism, and definitely too good to have to spend time in anarchy. But if you're spiritual, it's a joke to switch in and out in 5 turns. Gives you 5 turns to draft, then 5 turns back in economic civics.

Or as well like in my current game, I have a site that's perfect for National Epic. Pigs, fish, 2Xclams. I'd love to stay in caste the whole game. But I only settled it after I switched into caste early on, so sure, I had it running 6 or 7 representation scientists, but that does kind of suck when the only building in the city is a granary. It'd be a great city if I could have just switched into slavery for 5 or 6 turns, whipped me a forge and library, and then gone back to caste to let it grow.

Really, even without using it to go crazy for diplo, it lets you quickly run around. Many games I'm afraid to leave slavery since I'm worried I won't be able to defend from a surprise DoW. You do need to change your play a bit to get the most of it - constantly switch civics. Try things out. Keep re-evaluating - if the civics you're in won't be optimal for the next 5 turns, swap out.

 

[lymond]

Go into caste system/build enough buildings that create slots. Run as many of the relevant specialiast citizens as you can. This will cause starvation, especially early on. You'll get your Great Person quickly, but the city will lose population.

Edit: beat by Shyuhe with a better post. The problem with posting on two forums and watching a video and playing a game and forgetting to refresh.

Caste gives you the slots - I would have the buildings for the multipliers.

I often starve during a Golden Age to speed up GP production since you have the 100% bonus on the GA. If your Phil or have Parth/NE it's even better. I fill out my specialists until I'm running negative food but time it so that I don't lose a pop during the duration of the GA.

 

[MarcoPollo]

Often times when waging early wars, it is hard to get a conquered city to pop its borders. But in SPI you can switch to the state religion of the city just conquered and use its religion to help pop the border.

also it really helps in the espionage wars. Once I was sucker punched by boudica. So I sent a spy into her lands and switched her to pacifism. Then I switched to theocracy to pump out units that could fight, and smashed her as her economy crumbled under the weight of her troops.