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help on immortal needed.

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by christopher1234, Nov 20, 2011.

  1. christopher1234

    christopher1234 Warlord

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    hello everybody,i thought i was all that playing on emperor and winning any victory i feel like winning,but now that im busy with my first games on immortal it has dawned on me that life on the higher levels aint that easy.


    my first question is how does one simply keep up tech wise.for example my neighbour already has tanks by the time im just about getting riflemen,although during this game he still didnt have canons but only catapults,its still an order to steep to dominate no matter how many riflemen and cannons i build.

    please any practical and feasable advice tailored towards the newbies is much appreciated.............I want success and continously getting kicked by the als is not fun.
     
  2. ahcos

    ahcos King

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    Post some saves and screenshots so we can see what you're doing wrong. It's not very useful to give or receive unspecific advice.
     
  3. m00n

    m00n Chieftain

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    There's many ways to do that. For us to find out which one you are lacking in, you would have to provide us with a save. You could be missing out on researching techs that the AI doesn't prioritise, or you don't grab failgold from wonders wich you have the strategic resource to build. Maybe you don't shut down the silder, save up gold and then run it at 100% to make sure you don't research techs that your trading partners already have. There's many ways to screw your economy over, by having too small, too few, or too many cities. Or maybe is the wrong buildings in the cities or the wrong improvements around them or the wrong civics you've chosen. Etc etc. You see? We really can't help you without taking a look at your game. There's too many possiblities as to what is going wrong.
     
  4. christopher1234

    christopher1234 Warlord

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    Ok i,ll post a few screenshots from the first 100- 150 turns.I,ll have to come back to this thread in a few days time,because right i dont have time due to work responsibilities.
     
  5. Gumbolt

    Gumbolt Phoenix Rising

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    Post a game on here. I could use some help on immortal too.

    I find early rushes help. Also have a look at the immortal university series.

    Keeping up techwise should not be an issue on immortal. It is more a problem of picking the right strategy from t1.
     
  6. obsolete

    obsolete Deity

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    Hmm, I just realized that I can't remember the last time I was fighting against tanks on immortal. And I thought that I was slow...
     
  7. MarigoldRan

    MarigoldRan WARLORD

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    Are you (obsessively- as in, like, twice or more a turn) hitting the f4 "foreign adviser" button and looking at the tech screen for trades and opportunities?
     
  8. ahcos

    ahcos King

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    Guess what you want to say: this is what you HAVE to do when playing IMM/Deity. And no, i'm not joking, i usually hit that screen more like 5 times a turn.
     
  9. christopher1234

    christopher1234 Warlord

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    Hallo every-body.Im back, i got a few days off work so decided to play an emperor game up to the point that i research Atheatics and post it for feed back and suggestions.

    Firstly i have to admit that i continuosly reloaded until i got a map with copper close by.I just aint ready to deal with the challenges faced in the early game on immortal level,if i dont have copper close by.As time passes that will change,but for now please any feedback on my weak points and areas that can be improved will be much appreciated.
     

    Attached Files:

  10. Gumbolt

    Gumbolt Phoenix Rising

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    Okay a few pointers.

    workers - You are working cottages on plains tiles when you have so much production sitting there in all those forest tiles. Chop the forest first!
    Cottages on plains?? Not for me!
    Hamburgs deer is not worked. 4 food tile!

    Cottages in capital? Tough call. If you planned to build the GP farm above your capital (2 fish 1 cow GP farm) then right decision. I would certainly be abusing your philosophical trait this game.

    The Great People farm could of then run scientist whilst the capital grew into a bureaucracy capital. If you wanted to do this I would of been growing the capital and have built a granary there perhaps farming 1 grassland first.

    Great scientist in capital - Academy asap.

    Some city thoughts:
    Berlin - You are currently slow building a worker there. This comes from not chopping the forest early on. (Snowball effect) The capital needed the granary before 375bc.
    Munich - Next to silver but 1 tile too far from deer. 1E? The lack of deer is affecting the city for now. Not good? You have hunting?
    Cologne - Hard to tell how soon after settling this city shaka built his. City needs a nice border pop asap. Will be hard to recapture the culture.


    New cities:

    2x fish/cows.
    Horse fish city west of capital?

    Expansion thoughts: If you had chopped more early on you could of had 1-2 more cities by now and maybe 1-2 more workers.

    The 5 axes - I can see the plan to take the barb city but I fear you will need more lik 8-9 axes to take that city unless the AI help.

    Tech trades - Perhaps trade for alphabet once the Ai will do it.

    Overall you had a nice start to perhaps get to Military traditions before the Ai and abuse curs. The economy is a tough call. Go cottages or specialists. Mix of both may work.

    I hope these thoughts help.
     
  11. oranje willem

    oranje willem Prince

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    Took a look at your save, some things I noticed:

    What's your game plan? What techpath do you want to pursuit? Maybe you have decided how you want to play out this game for yourself, but I can't really judge from your save. It seems you are gonna capture the barb city, after that, use your units to scout around a bit. Normally the only military threat at this point would be Shaka, but he doesn't have copper (maybe iron dunno, hence scout). Trade techs around, look at worst enemies, try to avoid trading with worst enemies of neighbours or warmongers. Since Shaka is not really a threat, expand peacefully as much as possible, but get monarchy before you settle too much, you need happiness badly.

    Don't rely on libraries for border pops, you should have gotten Mysticism for monuments, you can 1pop-whip them very fast.

    You can gain a lot by improving your micromanagement:
    -You could have 2pop-whipped the library in cologne a long time ago.
    -Hamburg is working non-river plains cottages, I suppose because you wanted to avoid growth. It's almost never a good idea to work non-riverside plains cottages, especially now your making a settler (no growth) when you are a lot better off working the hamlets. You shouldn't have made those plains cottages at all, wasted worker turns. If you grow too much, just whip away the happiness and stop working high food tiles untill its gone or make settlers/workers.
    -You are making a worker, which is cool, because you only have 4, but your current workers are making useless improvements like plains cottages you will not be working for a long time, if ever at all, as well as a random farm near berlin, which is also useless now. I wouldn't say you dont need the extra worker, but if it's gonna make useless things you may as well not make it
    -Hook up the horses and make a chariot to scout your neighbours (especially Shaka)
    -You should have scouted the south more, who knows whats there, and use 1 unit (warriors preferably) to prevent barbarians from spawning.
     
  12. christopher1234

    christopher1234 Warlord

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    @oranje wihlem: you are correct about building monuments first before libraries.In this game my border pops came way to late,and it really bothered me.
    You stated that non riverside cottages are a waste.DO you mean cottages on the green plains or the brown plains around Hamburg?.I know i built a few to many its just because i have nothing better to do until codes of law and monarchy.Playing below immortal i didnt bother much about improvements,so i dont actualy understand the reason why non river side cottages are a waste, if i have enough hammers and food what else can replace them?.Of course as soon as civil-service and metalcasting comes in i can replace those cottages?.
     
  13. christopher1234

    christopher1234 Warlord

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    @Gumbolt:You mentioned i could have expanded even faster if i had chopped?.I only just finished researching Atheatics and dont have Maths,COL or Currency,so expanding has to wait in my opinion.Am i missing the point here?.My understanding is first get at least COL before extra expansion,if not the cost of extra cities will slow down research negatively.I suppose some people use scientists and research at this point,but is it really a good idea to do this so early?What if an Al decides to attack and i never built enough units?
     
  14. Gumbolt

    Gumbolt Phoenix Rising

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    4 cities by 345bc is not not many really.

    3 cities by 1500bc is fine on immortal. Many will use libraries and specialists to reach alphabet/col/currency. The point is you can rex as long as you have writing before you kill the slider. Building up some gold can be useful. Some even run the economy at a loss till they reach alphabet/COl/currency.

    There is nothing wrong with that. In this case you had a strong trait and a chance to go for a strong GP farm to bulb to techs like philosophy.

    As for chopping. Why wait for maths?? BW allows chopping! No sure why you are waiting here.

    As for Ai attacking you. Hopefully first you will be looking for Ai in war mode. You can also manage AI a bit better. Bribe Ai into wars and building defenders before a stack reaches you.

    Overall don't restrict your game so much. Play the map to what suits it best but have some sort of strategy.
     
  15. oranje willem

    oranje willem Prince

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    Non-riverside cottages are bad on plains not on grassland. Why? Plains cost more food than they give, so they drain your food surplus. At this stage of the game, it doesn't matter that much, because your cities won't grow due to the low happy cap. The thing is, cottages take a long time to mature and later on you can only work a limited amount of plains tiles, but an unlimited amount of grassland tiles (assuming your health/happines allows). So later on you actually much rather work grassland tiles than plains tiles so it would be a waste to grow those plains cottages now if you can grow the tiles you want to work eventually, especially considering they yield the same (keep in mind that food = hammers with slavery). Also keep in mind that your city grows faster when working grass over plains.

    Basicly plains cottage is bad short term and bad long term (as it limits the amount of tiles you can work).
    Grassland cottage is bad short term, but great long term since it only takes happines/health to work.

    So if you can choose between grassland cottage and plains cottage -> go for grassland
     
  16. christopher1234

    christopher1234 Warlord

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    I won Liberalism took Nationalism and teched towards Military-Tradition for calvary.
    I started this game by teching Aetheatics and after Lib going for Military-Tradition.
    This tech research sequence is totaly alien to how i teched on Emperor.For this reason and by looking at how effective Calvary are (basicly took all of Napoleons cities),im now wondering which tech path or sequence best complements,where im at in terms of tech and where im coming from.

    I got a scientist to bulb part of Biology,maybe Communism asap.Any suggestions and positive critic is much appreciated.
     

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  17. Gumbolt

    Gumbolt Phoenix Rising

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    You needed to swarm cavalry. Whip 30-40+ of them and attack every Ai possible. If yu can whip a curs for 2 pop you should do this in every city possible. Just attack the AI and wipe them out. They each seem to have only 5-7 cities anyway.

    In any case 1776ad seems a bit late for a first cavalry attack. Is there a reason why you could not of started with curs?

    Anyway.... how do you intend to win this game?? You are somewhat backwards compared to the AI but could well use curs to wipe many of them out with numbers.

    Diplomatic is possible I guess. I suspect you have already killed the bulbing line to radio by teching gunpowder.

    Beware India trying for culture.

    If you want proper help upload the save. ;)
     
  18. christopher1234

    christopher1234 Warlord

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    Does this sort of rush work just as well with cuisares or what ever they called?

    Please explain the radio tech path?.By the way i,ve concluded that this game aint winnable,i just wanna play it through to the end and then restart from scratch,and see if i can do some things more effeciently.
     

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