Help on Immortal -Washington - American

[awilder]

I can't see your save right now so I probably can't see as much of the map as you have revealed so far, but:

I would sink a hammer into the 'mids asap, then get one more worker/settler out of the cap, and then make/chop the mids while the stone city uses the second corn so that it can pump more workers/settlers. Try to get another decent work/settle pump going before the mids are in (maybe up north around the pigs/corn), because once they are you're going to want both corn back in the cap after that, and going to want it to grow a lot.

 

[Gumbolt]

I can't see your save right now so I probably can't see as much of the map as you have revealed so far, but:

I would sink a hammer into the 'mids asap, then get one more worker/settler out of the cap, and then make/chop the mids while the stone city uses the second corn so that it can pump more workers/settlers. Try to get another decent work/settle pump going before the mids are in (maybe up north around the pigs/corn), because once they are you're going to want both corn back in the cap after that, and going to want it to grow a lot.

Nope not done that yet! I did that with GW. I was going to whip a worker to help mids production. Good idea?

You would all build mids in capital right? A third worker would speed this up. The whips would be resolved once I adopt Rep.

I need to decide tech after the wheel. Writing?

 

[awilder]

I wouldn't whip into the mids. You have so much forest (still?) that you can still likely get it <10 turns, and that should be fine without the whip.

 

[Gumbolt]

Lost about 5 forest from starting position. An extra worker would help as I need to start mining the hills for the capital and NYC. Tough balance between getting mids and developing land.

Any thought on next tech?

 

[Gumbolt]

Okay a screen shot of current game overview.

Spoiler :

Should I play to mids and post?

Should I be worried about an AI assault from Celts?

I need to tackle scouting the land too. Would a warrior help?

 

[Mylene]

Yea a warrior or 2 creeping across those hills east and west, till Wash has some mines up to work on the mids )

 

[lymond]

Yea a warrior or 2 creeping across those hills east and west, till Wash has some mines up to work on the mids )

Spoiler :

Hey Mylene - Gumbolt and I have been trying to reach you via PM regarding the new SGOTM, but it appears that your PM is not active. You may not even yet know about sending Personal Messages on this site.

Anyway, we would like to know if you would be interested in joing our team "Phoenix Rising" for SGOTM13, a competitive succession game created by the SGOTM staff. Great fun and educational. Both Gumbolt and I think you would make a fine addition to the team. It would be nice to have more females around the joint too

Here is a link to the Succession GOTM forum:

SGOTM


The SGOTM13 sign-up thread is near the top and explains the game too. You can check some of the team threads for past SGOTMs to get a feel for how they work.

Hope you can join us. Feel free to PM either one of us if you would like to join.

This message will self-destruct in 5 seconds

 

[Mylene]

@ Lymond

Spoiler :

Thank you for the offer
I will look into it when getting home from work today, i might be interested but not sure how much time i'll have on my hands :-/ Iam mainly a mmorpg player these days, with Civ4 filling in when i do not raid/group (or work sigh) with the guild.

 

[Dirk1302]

well that I understand...but as always the devil is in the details...
How you calculate the optimal points in praxis? I usually just whip too soon (for 11 hammers) or too late (1 pop with 4 hammers? well then I don't usually whip).
And you really doing it every turn the calculations with some excel in parallel?

It takes some micro. Assuming for instance you'll contribute 14H/turn (food+Hammers combined) to the settler. You aim to do a 2 pop whip on the settler for max overflow. The lazy way is to whip after 4 turns when there are 56 H invested in the settler. You'll get 60 H from whip, 44 H is used for finishing the settler, 16 H is used for overflow.

If you'll whip after 5 turns there's 70H invested in settler and you only get a 1 pop whip for 30 H just finishing the settler with no overflow. So for max overflow you micro your city tiles in a way that only 13 H are contributed to the settler in turn 5 making the investment 69H. A 2 pop whip is now still needed to finish the settler, 31 H is used to for this, the other 29H overflow to your wonder. With stone that's a contribution of 58H for GW or Mids.

 

[vranasm]

hmm I see... I was afraid it is something like that... so you even put some "citizen specialist" if it's needed for limiting the invested "hammers", I suppose you do, since else it wouldn't make sense.

Will definitely try it in the near future ;-)

 

[Dirk1302]

Or switch hammers from a mine to a lake for instance to just stay under the 1 pop limit. Especially with lots of food converting food to hammers this way really does make a difference.

 

[Gumbolt]

@ Mylene/ Dirk

Have you looked at SGOTM section of forum. We are looking for more players in our team Phoenix Rising. If you want to join sign up is here. We could use someone who thinks outside the box.

Have a look at Series Game of the month section on forum and see what you think.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=410564

Up to you.

 

[Mylene]

Iam sorry to hijack this thread, but i cannot seem to figure out right now how to send private messages, so many options on the board or maybe iam just tired
To @Lymond and Gumi, iam a bit busy right now with my guild and real life after checking the upcoming schedule, and i feel i wouldn't be able to contribute enough to your team.
If that should change in the near future i will let you know (and if you still can use another player then), the concept looks interesting enough and team strength or better offers as Gumi wrote in his e-mail, is nothing that matters for me. Iam sure you are very good players anyway

 

[Gumbolt]

Iam sorry to hijack this thread, but i cannot seem to figure out right now how to send private messages, so many options on the board or maybe iam just tired
To @Lymond and Gumi, iam a bit busy right now with my guild and real life after checking the upcoming schedule, and i feel i wouldn't be able to contribute enough to your team.
If that should change in the near future i will let you know (and if you still can use another player then), the concept looks interesting enough and team strength or better offers as Gumi wrote in his e-mail, is nothing that matters for me. Iam sure you are very good players anyway

You are not hijacking the thread. I hijacked it to invite members. I will be trying to complete this game.

There is a send option on the private email hidden away somewhere on the side. You can just hit the reply button if you open up the emails. (It does work)

There is nearly a month till the game starts. There is no real obligation for you to post daily. If you joined at a later date you would have to make sure you avoided viewing other players threads.

If you truly feel you won't be on the forums much in next few months then probably best to leave it. I can see how other games like World of Warcraft could eat into your spare time.

Do make sure you stick around to give me advice on this game though.

 

[Gumbolt]

Okay I need to decide next tech for research.

Should i make a play for Oracle or skip to writing.

We seem to be heading for a chopping approach to mids skipping the extra worker. I will road to Washington and build there.

I would like to mine the hill near NY for production first and share the corn for NY growth.

I will probably next play up to point where mids is complete. Then push for a worker/settler for growth.

Looks like most are against the idea of whipping a worker for production on mids. Better to make sure i get the wonder.

 

[Gumbolt]

It takes some micro. Assuming for instance you'll contribute 14H/turn (food+Hammers combined) to the settler. You aim to do a 2 pop whip on the settler for max overflow. The lazy way is to whip after 4 turns when there are 56 H invested in the settler. You'll get 60 H from whip, 44 H is used for finishing the settler, 16 H is used for overflow.

If you'll whip after 5 turns there's 70H invested in settler and you only get a 1 pop whip for 30 H just finishing the settler with no overflow. So for max overflow you micro your city tiles in a way that only 13 H are contributed to the settler in turn 5 making the investment 69H. A 2 pop whip is now still needed to finish the settler, 31 H is used to for this, the other 29H overflow to your wonder. With stone that's a contribution of 58H for GW or Mids.

So number crunching here.

Settler is 100 hammer to produce. We are aiming for 2 pop whip to get a 29 hammer base overflow.

If we invest full 70 there is no over flow as a whip gives you 30 hammers for 1 pop whipped?

So by restricting hammers to 69 you go ever so slightly under 70 hammer and get to a 2 pop whip. So for each 30 hammers of the 1 pop whip you don't use you get base hammer overflows.

So spend 69/100 on settler and do 2 pop whip you get 60-31(Hammers to complete buil)= 29 overflow.

How does this work on epic? (edit)

150 to build? Build 104 hammers? Leaves 46 to use. 2 pop whip offers 90 hammers of which 46 goes into settler and 44 for overflow? So 88 hammers if you have double production on a wonder like mids with stone.

How would you for instance max overflow on a axeman or swordsman on normal?

Also how is overflow worked on libraries when you have double production speed? I assume it is still 30 hammers a point with overflow maxed when you are 31 hammers from completion on a 2 pop whip?

So a 3 pop whip would in theory be production less 91 to max out overflow?

Have I understood this right?

 

[vranasm]

Or switch hammers from a mine to a lake for instance to just stay under the 1 pop limit. Especially with lots of food converting food to hammers this way really does make a difference.

one related thing... When I looked at creative/expansive I always looked at it the way that it's awesome that I can whip these buildings for only 1 pop. As I understand it it's completely wrong look and it's actually reversed.

It would be better to 2 pop whip worker and let 29 hammer overflow go through the bonus in the library/granary. Is this right?

 

[lymond]

It's even more effective in OR as the overflow hammers get boosted if they are applied to a building. They are also boosted if you have a hammer bonus on the building from a trait. Until not too long ago I kind of looked at it almost the opposite way.

 

[Dirk1302]

@vranasm, that's indeed exactly right. 1 pop whip isn't ideal since unhappiness catches up with you pretty fast in the early game and you'll only get 30H and probably have to wait whipping again due to unhappiness. But i will do a 1 pop whip for things like monuments, workers assigned in a city size 2 etc. Here the overflow's not big but these items are so important in itself.

If you have half priced granaries and it's possible to invest exactly 29H in the worker before doing a 2 pop whip you'll overflow 60-31 = 29*2 = 58H in the granary so only 2 H needed.

@Gumbolt, i think you mean "how does this work on epic"? In that case what you write is correct.
Overflow to axe or sword works the same as overflow to wonder, only no resource bonus here.
On library half priced, same as granary above, 58H go into library so 32H to go.

a 3 pop whip on a settler can be effective as well, as long as there's less than 40 H invested in the settler you'll need a pop 3 whip and that delivers 90H. But in my experience you generally don't suffer unhappiness with 2 pop whip unless you have loads of excess food and growback time is very short. Also growing a city to 6 takes time early game, so this doesn't come up that often in my experience.

A few other things:

- Lymond is right OR helps a lot with whipping buildings just as forges do. With forge and OR a 2 pop whip on for instance a library generates 90H.

- This overflow stuff is especially interesting with workers and settlers since you overflow hammers and food (converted to hammers) to your wonder. Whipping buildings overflowing to wonders can be somewhat effective too since whipping the wonder itself is penalized. However just putting the hammers in the wonder itself is generally faster. But if you have for instance half priced libraries and no resource for the wonder a whip can be effective, put 29 H in library leaving 61. 2 pop whip still needed to get the library, this whip generates 120H overflowing 59H to wonder.

About SGOTM, thanks for asking. I've got some civ4 interest back but i'm not really ready to devote a lot of time as of now, but maybe in the future.

 

[babybluepants]

If you have half priced granaries and it's possible to invest exactly 29H in the worker before doing a 2 pop whip you'll overflow 60-31 = 29*2 = 58H in the granary so only 2 H needed.

If you have 1/2 price granaries, you probably also have cheap workers.