Help on Immortal -Washington - American

[vranasm]

I am off out tonight but will hopefully play out 10-15 turns on my return. Will look at the advice again when I return.

So far i think you would all play out the game slightly differently but that can be good too.

it's the same as with lawyers... ask 3 lawyers and you will get 4 different answers

 

[Mylene]

Settling on res like stone is the high difficulty strat, taking care of the long term value of the ressource city the slow way

 

[Gumbolt]

Settling on res like stone is the high difficulty strat, taking care of the long term value of the ressource city the slow way

There is logic in your strategy. We don't have a settler yet so lets see what else the fog holds and where the Ai are. 10 turns means less than 20-10 tiles away.

As Erkon stated in SGOTM the Ai knew where i was from T1.

Okay lets get the worker built and start on a second worker. We can then start growing the capital on the 2 corn and think about a settler and what wonders I might need.

Sorry if my turn reports are not as good as Dhoom Strikers. We can't all be great story tellers. I do want to get into some debates about the way forward otherwise this is all pointless.

 

[Gumbolt]

Okay that could of gone worse.

T11 mining came in and started teching bronze working.
T- 12 Budhissism found.
T-13 Hindu found. - (Incas)
Unfortunately our fearless warrior died on the grassland against a lion. Rest in peace!

The Celts are expanding fast now with 2 cities. (we'll catch up when we are ready)

We have copper up north but too far away to be useful.

BW is now complete and our second worker is almost ready.

Land as we know it.

Spoiler :

From the land it appears we may have coast to the west. I would guess the celts/incas are NW or up north.

The religion might actually help us if it spreads and peace can be got.

So far no other Ai have cropped up but never say never.


So what now? We can start chopping/ pre chopping the forest. Would a strategy of growth and chopping out a warrior and settler work well?

The question is where are we heading? Great wall or mids? Would the incas be beelining the GW or SH at this stage given their religion?

Hmmmm time to pause till tomorrow.

 

[Dirk1302]

I would pass on GW, a good player can defend against barbs regardless, GW is pretty useless in other respects, only worth it if you go spy economy. Normally i would pass on Mids as well, here however with stones and lots of forests it would be a great wonder with all that food but not much commercial resources. I think taking a shot at it would be reasonable.

Still bit of a gamble, just expanding taking a dip in economy should work also work well here.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

I would pass on GW, a good player can defend against barbs regardless, GW is pretty useless in other respects, only worth it if you go spy economy. Normally i would pass on Mids as well, here however with stones and lots of forests it would be a great wonder with all that food but not much commercial resources. I think taking a shot at it would be reasonable.

Still bit of a gamble, just expanding taking a dip in economy should work also work well here.

Stone-boosted Gwall can let you cut hammers to have the barb defenses though; eventually you're talking about a lot of hammers/gold to beat the barbs if there's enough land. It's probably not great on most normal size maps though there are exceptions; but on larger maps w/o extra AI it's pretty solid (and in those cases it's generally pretty easy to eventually unlock heroic epic with barbs even with it too).

 

[Mylene]

I would pass on GW, a good player can defend against barbs regardless, GW is pretty useless in other respects, only worth it if you go spy economy. Normally i would pass on Mids as well, here however with stones and lots of forests it would be a great wonder with all that food but not much commercial resources. I think taking a shot at it would be reasonable.

Still bit of a gamble, just expanding taking a dip in economy should work also work well here.

GW is awesome when being in the middle of a map, it doesn't matter if you are a good player or not because the hammers and time saved for not worrying about defense at all are huge.
I really don't know why you are saying that
And the pyramids are no gamble with stone 3 tiles away from the capital, he isn't playing Deity?
*Not* getting these 2 wonders when having stone, that is a gamble!

 

[Dirk1302]

It's immortal, HC is on the map, we're not industrious. If i go for a wonder i like to make 90% certain i'll get it. Mids are very good here so i support giving it a try. Going for GW as well will lessen chances for Mids and/or will hurt early expansion, i don't think that's such a good idea. If you try for GW and miss it that's pretty disastrous, GW is often built pretty early by Ai.

If hammers for GW are put into a settler you'll have a second (or third) city up much earlier. Assign that city to units and you'll have your defense against barbs.

 

[lymond]

It's immortal, HC is on the map, we're not industrious. If i go for a wonder i like to make 90% certain i'll get it. Mids are very good here so i support giving it a try. Going for GW as well will lessen chances for Mids and/or will hurt early expansion, i don't think that's such a good idea. If you try for GW and miss it that's pretty disastrous, GW is often built pretty early by Ai.

If hammers for GW are put into a settler you'll have a second (or third) city up much earlier. Assign that city to units and you'll have your defense against barbs.

Spoiler :

Not if you whip settlers/workers. into the GW and have tons of forests to chop. I got both the GW and Mids easily (actually didn't chop that many forest for them) in this game as well as 6 or 7 cities by 600BC.

 

[Mylene]

With settling on the stone you can chop out the GW in a few turns.
That is the whole point of it, with a 2x bonus if you get beaten to it you switch the hammers from the chops to the Pyramids or something else before they would go into the GW. You time it so that you either get it in that turn, or not loose the hammers. There is no 90%, there is only 100% or 0%.

 

[vranasm]

Spoiler :

Not if you whip settlers/workers. into the GW and have tons of forests to chop. I got both the GW and Mids easily (actually didn't chop that many forest for them) in this game as well as 6 or 7 cities by 600BC.

that I would like to see in a video... there has to be something I am missing atm

 

[Dirk1302]

With settling on the stone you can chop out the GW in a few turns.
That is the whole point of it, with a 2x bonus if you get beaten to it you switch the hammers from the chops to the Pyramids or something else before they would go into the GW. You time it so that you either get it in that turn, or not loose the hammers. There is no 90%, there is only 100% or 0%.

That's not a bad idea indeed. Settling on stone is rather ugly as capital will need both corns later but probably worth it if you can get both wonders.

 

[Mylene]

Yea, it's not that bad to have such a city, it can produce cheap city guards for the others, or workers etc. There is always something you miss, and with the bad city you don't have to bother the others.
With the great wall you can pick your good city sites without worrying about defending them till an AI goes into attack mode. So it pays back greatly, and well the great general stuff isn't too shabby either.

 

[yanner39]

that I would like to see in a video... there has to be something I am missing atm

Yeah, I saw lymond weave his magic in a game I posted last week. I'd like to see that as well. Wonders were appearing left and right and he still have 8 cities by 1AD.

 

[Dirk1302]

It's not a difficult mechanism in itself. Time your settler for max overflow with 2 pop whip. In this way you convert food to hammers for wonders as you do for workers and settlers. If you have the resource, stone in this case it can be pretty effective.

 

[vranasm]

It's not a difficult mechanism in itself. Time your settler for max overflow with 2 pop whip. In this way you convert food to hammers for wonders as you do for workers and settlers. If you have the resource, stone in this case it can be pretty effective.

well that I understand...but as always the devil is in the details...
How you calculate the optimal points in praxis? I usually just whip too soon (for 11 hammers) or too late (1 pop with 4 hammers? well then I don't usually whip).
And you really doing it every turn the calculations with some excel in parallel?

 

[Gumbolt]

Okay my plan is to chop out the settler while growing the cap. Lets give Mylene plan a go.

I am mixed on the barb issue. Hard to tell how much land I have around me at present.

I will play out 10 turns in a bit and pre chop the forest. Near new stone city.

 

[Gumbolt]

Okay we have taken on mylene strategy for now.

Basically chopped out the settler while growing capital. made a risky dash with settler to stone and settled on it.

With 3 forest chops GW was built.

The other 2 Ai I met so far have only 2 cities.

So what now? Adopt slavery? Do i build mids in capital and chop it?

New York is somewhat nerfed in terms of growth so I should probably give it the corn. oops. Perhaps I rushed this turnset.

I think i could use a 3rd worker. Need to road route to Washington. Then whip worker/settlers into mids in Washington.

For now I am safe from barbs.

Do i complete mids before third city?

 

[Gumbolt]

Oh what is best way to get max overflow of hammers on a chop? 2 pop whip near end of build?

 

[yanner39]

well that I understand...but as always the devil is in the details...
How you calculate the optimal points in praxis? I usually just whip too soon (for 11 hammers) or too late (1 pop with 4 hammers? well then I don't usually whip).
And you really doing it every turn the calculations with some excel in parallel?

Usually a pop 2 whip gives you a nice amount of hammers. I think the key is also to not be afraid to stack whip anger and for that, you need some sort of happiness cap booster. Maybe H Rules or something.

Here is a link to the thread I was taking about:http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=10147390&postcount=15

Look at the Wonders lymond manages to get. As I mentioned, that's one of the things that separates a very good player like him with an average one like myself.

@Gumbolt: Sorry for highjacking the thread.