Hermetic lore for FFH DI4 (not for use outside this game)

[Ravus_Sol]

RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAINNNN!

Sorry, couldn't resist.

Sheesh i leave for 5 minutes and you've allready downgraded me to "lumbering barbarian" i'll have you know i'm an english supervillian. Which according to hollywood means i'm intelligent witty, and likely to die stupidly while reciting a monologue. ah the cliches of hollywood. it would be depressing if it wasn't funny.

As for the Red Dragon stuff. I too liked him in Ered where he spawned so lets just breakdown what you need and why. You wish to boarder in the clan to stop them becoming a super power? Personally i wanted the Clan to become strong i figured the end game heavy hitters to end up being the Clan and the Bannor supporter by their close like minded breathern.

But in the aims of facilitating you: lets see what we can do narrativly...

We could actually have Acheron being a muchh bigger player in this game by having him a founder and obvious semi-leader of the desert barbarian nation. We link Ered his current city to the middle then also place a boarder city to the west. (near to the clan where you desire it.) Then as gods we could move Acheron around his little Dragon worshiping empire as we please each intervention round. This would help me as i could easily link it into my own story line. It would also be helpful to the Gods as we would have more control over which city should be nigh unassailable for the round.

As Dragons are meant to be super intelligent it makes more sense for him to have a nation. The damn thing is huge. He would naturally find a place in a empire that worships dragons and wishes to become strong allways.

To link it in to the idea you had about the clan, he could indeed fly west to gain more money. Perhaps a Tithe as they used to say in medievil times?

Indeed the more i think about it the more i think it could work well while also allowing the dwarven quest to be finished sooner. However i am worries about how Lgaard was planning to link him into his quest. Were you in fact going to have Acheron as being the destroyer of the nation? that the horde was originally the dwarves? If so then yes we could merely have multiple hordes in the game one for the east and west (supplied by dwarf and orc), while the Death of Acheron could be the last part of the long term Dwarven quest (hitting around when Grigoria gets Dragon Slayers). This would be more fun for me as then Verdian would have to explore into the unknown desert to find the legendary barbarian nation founded by this great beast.

(Ideas? yes/no? currently i believe it is workable)

EDIT: Yes i got the pm. sorry i'm still new to figuring out all the parts of civforums so i missed it untill you mentioned it. I'll grab a drink and then figure out how to reply to the damn thing. Sounds interesting though.

 

[Dean_the_Young]

Sending a new PM to you: there's been some developments since then. But jumping around isn't so bad, per say.

 

[FireBlaze]

I can second that. I ask you all to be careful with destroying/replacing/changing features that Verdian/Garren has already seen. If it's really important for your plots, you can do that, but it needs more explanation/noticing (narratives!). Please try to arrange it in tha way, that is not just "switching the places".
Is displacing the Pyre really that important? I thought its location in the dwarven land a good reason to even increase animosities between Clan and Khazad. Dwarves, with their practical nature may start to use the pyre as a source of fire mana for a purpose of building their forges etc. Orcs my treat is as a blasphemy. This could even be a reason for a war. And put the role of the dwarves (Garren's ally) a bit more ambigious than it had seem to be.
Same goes for a Tomb of Sucellus. Narrative is needed to change the location. And again: is it really needed to have it moved?

I thought about it, but then I pretty much said "Screw it", and figured that things would work themselves out.

 

[Ravus_Sol]

I thought about it, but then I pretty much said "Screw it", and figured that things would work themselves out.

LOL! Too true. also with you being blocked from intervening for weeks i think you can get away with it.

Anyone have any problem with me just saying the Dragon Acheron actually picked up and carried the Pire over to the Clan as a gift or something? I think the image that creates is amusing. As long as the Odio is out of Verdians scouting so far i don't care.

 

[Bootsiuv]

Fair enough....I suppose I dont' have to move anything really....and the forest of Renewal might go up in flames, perhaps as a little punishment for failing to rescue the elven healer.

I'll think about a way to connect the fortress with the necromancers tower (broken sepulchre would work nicely actually).

To Dean, why not just use Abashi....it's not like the Sheaim build her very often. He fits the role of evil dragon just fine IMO.....

I'll dwell on it further....

Am at work right now, when I go home, I'll dl the save again and see what the situation is....

Any more comments are welcomed, and anyone interested in integrating ideas into the necromancer idea, please feel free.....perhaps it will be a big quest with many different gods wanting the player to do many different things i.e. the evil gods will want to strengthen the necromancer and the good gods will want to destroy him....or whatever we come up with.

 

[Diamondeye]

Personally I am strongly against the moves of Pyre and Tomb, and see no reason why it would be done. They were playing a nice role until now. I strongly support replacing them.

 

[Vandal Warlord]

Imagine my suprise when I get to my computer and there is now two more pages in this thread.

Spoiler My two cents :

I am against moving anything at the moment.

 

[Lgaard]

1. I had no detailed plans on Acheron. I just wanted him to be one of the forces to "heve destroyed the ancient dwarven kingdom". The remainig would be orcs and other goblinkin.
If you want him to lead barbarian kingdom now - that's fine with me. Dragons are ancient creatures. Once he destroyed dwarven kingdom, now he organizes his cult at the desert.

2. Pyre. Odio's Prison. If I'm not the only one (seems I am not) who thinks these should remain at their original positions, please, FireBlaze, reconsider your reasons. Or at least reveal them.

 

[Dean_the_Young]

An... unusual intervention for Mammon. Working with Ravus Soul to get the implemented.


Interventions are to be:

-Move Acheron into barbarian city near Clan. If barb city does not exist, make one
-Copy Dragon's Hoard in city: Mammon's bribe to Acheron to allow...

We have done buisness before, your followers and mine. My Bazaar of Mammon, after all, funded many a righteous Crusade in your name. Now, however, I come with another deal.

I offer, through the support of my Stewards, to finance your first Acolyte to spread Your word. That will be the meat of my intervention, and need not lay on you.

And all I ask in exchange, my brother, is that you let me decide where it is founded. I will select the Holy City.

Do you agree, or wish to bicker about the terms? I can always be convinced to other conditions, after all.

The hearts of mortals may be swayed so easily, but I am not so easily convinced. It is true that many of them have allowed you're influence into their very lives even to enact my will. If I had my way however, they would put less time looking into their financial situations and more time making sure the influence of your evils were wiped for Erebus!

I care not where you place my Holy city, nor whom it is ruled by. However, if I discover that any of your taint has been injected into these places, I will not stop until I ensure the place has been razed to the ground!

-Make Acheron's city the Order holy city, including the Shrine building. I know for a fact that Acheron will not be permanently stationed in the city, so it can be 'liberated' at some other time.
-Any copper weapon promotions for Camulos's Harbringers (my metal promotions will be at the upper limit of the world). This was his price for doing my intervention.
-A Great Merchant on Finnegan's location, for the Gerranites.



And, when our dear player has made his answer for his delimma I posed him, I'll have a response for that as well.

 

[Dayen]

My only question as far as swapping the Pyre and Tomb is: considering they're both now involved in the story, how does that affect sense of disbelief?

At this point you may as well let sleeping dogs lie. If it was outside of Gerran's revealed map it would be another issue entirely, but with them both revealed and both taking a part in the story thus far, disturbing them seems jarring.

 

[Lade]

So the order religion would be false and the Bannor led by the real Sabathiel would have to crusade to take over the holy city and turn the Order back into it's proper worship? sounds interesting, lots of potential. Who would you want to found the False Order then?

Remember to take into account the fact that Decieus (sp) leads the calaibam. I'm not sure on the original lore from the scenarios but originally he was forced out of Bannor by the corrupted order as a traitor.

Although perhaps then Decieus could found the false order as a traitor of Bannor in Calabaim? You'd probably have to get Vandals input as he has plans for the Vampires but i'm not sure even he has considered the significance of the Ex-Bannor leader.

What do you mean by the hero though? Don't the Bannor have a guy who can recruit people as a hero?

I meant that eventually I plan to give the Grigori a hero representing me to help entice them to join the Bannor crusades. At this point, I've pretty much settled on a dwarven paladin named Urist

He said he found his life empty among the Luchiurp. Thats the first thing he told me as we sat in the boat that we both were taking to get to the northern land of the Lanun. It feels like so long ago. We were little more then thrill seakers, but eventually our luck ran out. We needed money somehow, but the ruler of the market was viscious. The greed he felt made him willing to kill us for the little we stole. Urist saved me by causing the distraction that let us both escape. We had heard that the local Lanun feared the west, for they claimed it was a land filled with flaming zombies and screams of horror.

We were rash. We needed someplace to escape to. The first person we met as we traveled west kidnaped Urist, with only the passing remark, "Excellent, I am in need of a dwarf." I traced them to his house. I waited until the next night and snuck in and yet again though the odds were narrow we escaped. All I'll mention is that a rogue spell of his caught his house on fire, and he deserved it. Urist will not speak of what occured in there, so I do not press him. Still, I wonder.

After that we fled north after that, having no idea what would become of us. We realized that we were traveling into a desert, but what choice did we have? We were near death when we came upon an oasis. We were saved, every drop of water felt like pure heaven on my tongue. We theorized that the desert could not last for much longer, and decided to press our luck again. We journeyed north, but the desert did not end. And yet again we were so lucky as to find an oasis in our path. We had no idea what to do. What way can bring us the good fortune of life? The desert seems to stretch on in every direction. Finally we decided that north was the best option. After all, what were the chances that it could stretch on so long in one direction?

So we filled our waterskins and began to walk. We walked. And walked. And walked. Then we crawled. Then we fainted. I was sure when I opened my eyes that I was dead, but instead I was staring into the eyes of another human! My gratitude shall be everlasting, for not only am I alive, but Urist was brought as well! They fed us and then requested that we come with them to see their leader. Now here I am writing this, and our journey appears to have been a complete success! We narrowly avoided death so many times. I swear the second I find a real bed I'll never get out of it! Thankfully we met such nice people. I don't know much about their culture. All they said was that their name was the "Balseraph", whatever that means. Even so, I have complete faith they would do nothing to hurt us. Speaking of which, time to wrap this up. The captain of this group has summoned me.

Of course, if anyone has any objections I can come up with something completely different, hopefully with less cookie-cutter writing.

 

[Diamondeye]

Lade, I was actually planning on granting the Gerranites an adventurer this round, giving them another hero on top of that would be over the top, I think. Then again, I haven't said anything about that until now...

Also, I plan on slightly boosting some of the Neutral/Evil civs - nothing too grotesque, don't worry, and Dagda gets a say after I've done my intervention, ofc.

 

[Vandal Warlord]

Although perhaps then Decieus could found the false order as a traitor of Bannor in Calabaim? You'd probably have to get Vandals input as he has plans for the Vampires but i'm not sure even he has considered the significance of the Ex-Bannor leader.

Diamondeye can vouch for me on this one -

I have considered this and I ALWAYS have plans.

 

[FireBlaze]

Pyre-Clan is obvious, and it'll probably serve as a point for the Clan's perverse worship of me, and possible demon invasion late game (See- Possible). Odio was switched because it was near the clan, and two was too much. Also, Odio was imprisoned there by Kilmorph, so it could serve as a place of worship, or veneration of her, or as a place showing off her might.

However, another possible thing to do with the pyre moving is to place Odio's prison somewhere else, and then have the pyre erupt into flames, causing its 1x1 area to be fire. And then placing the Pyre at its current spot next to the Clan. This route would definitely stir up some Clan vs Khazad conflict, serving for another storyline for the future.

Or, we could just say that he was drunk and thought he saw something wrong. Or I wiped his mind, or any other convenient cover up excuse.

Whichever route is chosen does not really matter to me, I just want the Pyre next to the Clan.

 

[Lade]

Lade, I was actually planning on granting the Gerranites an adventurer this round, giving them another hero on top of that would be over the top, I think. Then again, I haven't said anything about that until now...

Mmm? That journal log was written somewhere between turns 70-100, Urist wouldn't even appear to the Grigori for another round at least, and even then I won't directly give him to them until a bit later, when one unit won't be such an impact.

EDITTHATNOONEWILLEVERREAD: Actually, I don't think there's any paticular reason for me to release Urist's backstory to the public, so I'm gonna keep it tucked nice in some random folder. I'm probably going to introduce him as soon as he meets the Bannor though.

 

[Ravus_Sol]

Pyre-Clan is obvious, and it'll probably serve as a point for the Clan's perverse worship of me, and possible demon invasion late game (See- Possible). Odio was switched because it was near the clan, and two was too much. Also, Odio was imprisoned there by Kilmorph, so it could serve as a place of worship, or veneration of her, or as a place showing off her might.

However, another possible thing to do with the pyre moving is to place Odio's prison somewhere else, and then have the pyre erupt into flames, causing its 1x1 area to be fire. And then placing the Pyre at its current spot next to the Clan. This route would definitely stir up some Clan vs Khazad conflict, serving for another storyline for the future.

Or, we could just say that he was drunk and thought he saw something wrong. Or I wiped his mind, or any other convenient cover up excuse.

Whichever route is chosen does not really matter to me, I just want the Pyre next to the Clan.

I still say dragon stealing is the way to go, but other ideas include volcanoas. sinking into a sudden sea. Exploding when a kilomorph worshiper attempts to pray there.

Or...

The moving Pyre! Have it that the Pyre is actually teleporting randomly throughout the world due to Bhaals struggling re-emergance. We can have laughs with this plopping it down in Grigori lands first and then move it around for awhile till it ends up with the Clan who know how to worship it properly and keep it in their lands.

 

[FireBlaze]

I still say dragon stealing is the way to go, but other ideas include volcanoas. sinking into a sudden sea. Exploding when a kilomorph worshiper attempts to pray there.

Or...

The moving Pyre! Have it that the Pyre is actually teleporting randomly throughout the world due to Bhaals struggling re-emergance. We can have laughs with this plopping it down in Grigori lands first and then move it around for awhile till it ends up with the Clan who know how to worship it properly and keep it in their lands.

Sounds fine to me. Lets see what the peanut gallery has to say first though

 

[Vandal Warlord]

Sounds fine to me. Lets see what the peanut gallery has to say first though

The anrgy peanuts say yes!

 

[Ravus_Sol]

The anrgy peanuts say yes!

Hey Vandal you mind if i move your Caal units to the Town of Arawn for narrative sakes? then i can wrap up that whole chapter in one go. Also, you gave Caal Hero? Man thats gonna be a to kill as he isn't help either

 

[Vandal Warlord]

Hey Vandal you mind if i move your Caal units to the Town of Arawn for narrative sakes? then i can wrap up that whole chapter in one go. Also, you gave Caal Hero? Man thats gonna be a to kill as he isn't help either

I have no problems with that. And I gave him Hero so that he would appear as a single person, if there is tanother way to do that, please do it.