The Balrog
***Not Perm Banned***
- Joined
- Oct 7, 2001
- Messages
- 713
What did you excpect håkon??? Graeme is british.
Heroin
- Thread starter Håkan Eriksson
- Start date
What did you excpect håkon??? Graeme is british.
atawa
Mastered by puppets
from the holy bible:
'I have givven you all the herbs and seeds on the earth to use'
my 2 bits on a couple of drugs:
weed: best medecine for stumach or headeaches ( also best sideaffects
opium: I had a bad bike burn in Cambodia last holiday, after a Khmer girl rubbed some opium based medicine on it, it imedietly stopped hurting enabeling me to ride to a medical post the nxt day.
mushrooms: a better trip than disneyland, a lot cheaper also since they just grow in the forrest
E: Using 1 pill to get rid of a whole weeks stress, not to bad if you look at the alternatives
Only thing I'm saying is that so called drugs can make a healthy contribution to your life if you can handle them
About the stepping stone theory: I believe the main problem is that if you dont segregate the markets for soft and harddrugs its
A: becomming easyer to obtain harddrugs (buy them from your grass suplier)
B: This same person will try to get you hooked on say smack (probebly giving away samples ) becouse the profit margin on these drugs is a lot higher and in some country's the punishment is the same.
Anyway, been smoking for about 15 years now, I have a good job, own my own house and will keep using the herb for medicinal and recreational purposses. Why? couse it enhances my life.
BTW: do you considder things like prozac in the same catagory?
'I have givven you all the herbs and seeds on the earth to use'
my 2 bits on a couple of drugs:
weed: best medecine for stumach or headeaches ( also best sideaffects
opium: I had a bad bike burn in Cambodia last holiday, after a Khmer girl rubbed some opium based medicine on it, it imedietly stopped hurting enabeling me to ride to a medical post the nxt day.
mushrooms: a better trip than disneyland, a lot cheaper also since they just grow in the forrest
E: Using 1 pill to get rid of a whole weeks stress, not to bad if you look at the alternatives
Only thing I'm saying is that so called drugs can make a healthy contribution to your life if you can handle them
About the stepping stone theory: I believe the main problem is that if you dont segregate the markets for soft and harddrugs its
A: becomming easyer to obtain harddrugs (buy them from your grass suplier)
B: This same person will try to get you hooked on say smack (probebly giving away samples ) becouse the profit margin on these drugs is a lot higher and in some country's the punishment is the same.
Anyway, been smoking for about 15 years now, I have a good job, own my own house and will keep using the herb for medicinal and recreational purposses. Why? couse it enhances my life.
BTW: do you considder things like prozac in the same catagory?
Simon Darkshade
Mysterious City of Gold
Ye can say what ye want about the merits of legalising drugs and the like, but if I ever found out some scum dealer was supplying any of my younger relatives, or my friends younger siblings... then may God havemercy on their souls. Say what you will, the drug tradeis, and will remain predatory. Scum looking for easy money, and criminal interests see this as a way to bring in extortionate amounts of cash. If allthe present drugs were legalised worldwide tommorrow, would these individuals pack up and go home, and live as law abiding people.
In my experience, they would not. Another new drug would be developed, and sold illegally, because it makes far more money that way.
Nothing I ahve seen here or elsewhere so far can convince me that this part of the drug problem can be easily addressed.
In my experience, they would not. Another new drug would be developed, and sold illegally, because it makes far more money that way.
Nothing I ahve seen here or elsewhere so far can convince me that this part of the drug problem can be easily addressed.
Graeme the mad
Certified Maniac
Thanks for your input presidente
Hey thunderfall why do I get banned but this complete moron doesnt - I CRY INJUSTICE
Hey thunderfall why do I get banned but this complete moron doesnt - I CRY INJUSTICE
allan
Cabrón
"If allthe present drugs were legalised worldwide tommorrow, would these individuals pack up and go home, and live as law abiding people.
In my experience, they would not. Another new drug would be developed, and sold illegally, because it makes far more money that way."
ROTFLMAO! So logically, take away all government power to ban ALL drugs for personal use, and thus no "new drug" will ever be illegal, and then what?
I wouldn't be surprised if the Drug Cartels themselves have some hidden lobby to keep the substances they peddle illegal, to keep their monopoly and high profits.
Not to mention the CIA financing black ops through the trade....
A bumper sticker I saw recently: "DARE to speak truth to power." ("DARE" was written just like it is for the D.A.R.E. program logo.) Right on!
The drug war is a f*cking sick joke, a war on the freedoms of the American people (no-knock searches, seizures without due process, etc. etc.), and has made our country the NUMBER ONE per capita in terms of prison population.
I say end the "war on drugs", with fanaticism. Live free or die! The fundies shall one day bow before the feet of reason....
I myself smoke pot, but nothing harder. I prefer pot to alcohol, preferring brain stimulation to uncoordinated stupidity. DEAL WITH IT, IT WILL NOT CHANGE, AND I WILL NOT BOW TO THE IGNORANT MASSES!!!! And it ain't your f*cking problem either....
There, I just wanted to get that off my chest. Time to fire up a blunt....
F*ck the tyranny of ignorant fundies or cynical power brokers. I own my own life.
In my experience, they would not. Another new drug would be developed, and sold illegally, because it makes far more money that way."
ROTFLMAO! So logically, take away all government power to ban ALL drugs for personal use, and thus no "new drug" will ever be illegal, and then what?
I wouldn't be surprised if the Drug Cartels themselves have some hidden lobby to keep the substances they peddle illegal, to keep their monopoly and high profits.
Not to mention the CIA financing black ops through the trade....
A bumper sticker I saw recently: "DARE to speak truth to power." ("DARE" was written just like it is for the D.A.R.E. program logo.) Right on!
The drug war is a f*cking sick joke, a war on the freedoms of the American people (no-knock searches, seizures without due process, etc. etc.), and has made our country the NUMBER ONE per capita in terms of prison population.
I say end the "war on drugs", with fanaticism. Live free or die! The fundies shall one day bow before the feet of reason....
I myself smoke pot, but nothing harder. I prefer pot to alcohol, preferring brain stimulation to uncoordinated stupidity. DEAL WITH IT, IT WILL NOT CHANGE, AND I WILL NOT BOW TO THE IGNORANT MASSES!!!! And it ain't your f*cking problem either....
There, I just wanted to get that off my chest. Time to fire up a blunt....
F*ck the tyranny of ignorant fundies or cynical power brokers. I own my own life.
Simon Darkshade
Mysterious City of Gold
"So logically, take away all government power to ban ALL drugs for personal use, and thus no "new drug" will ever be illegal, and then what?"
No that is not what I meant or was implying. My point is that problems currently associated with the drug trade will not wither away simply with legalisation of everything. I was referring to the lowlifes who deal in drugs and prey on others.
"I wouldn't be surprised if the Drug Cartels themselves have some hidden lobby to keep the substances they peddle illegal, to keep their monopoly and high profits."
Neither would I, quite frankly. It would make a lot of sense.
I fear you have mistaken my point. I am not saying you must be shot because you smoke pot. It is your choice, and if it pulls your chain, then go ahead. My gripe is with the predatory dealers out there who do exist, and peddle hard drugs to children. There is a difference, I feel between marijuana and heroin. I am not a part of the drug war, nor have I to the best of my knowledge infringed on the freedoms of any American citizens, or anyone for that matter. I am not "an ignorant fundie tyrant", nor am I a "cynical power broker".
To the best of my knowledge, however, hard drugs do kill people, and change them into shadows of people, and I have seen this happen. I am against this. Does this make me ignorant, unreasonable, fundamentalist, or in some way offensive to your ownership of your own life.
Responsible adults should be allowed to make decisions for themselves to a certain extent, but we should discourage self destruction of all kinds. "Freedom is good, but it needs to balanced with responsibility". that is my personal credo (one of them), but I do not seek to force it upon others .
(sotto voce: yet)
No that is not what I meant or was implying. My point is that problems currently associated with the drug trade will not wither away simply with legalisation of everything. I was referring to the lowlifes who deal in drugs and prey on others.
"I wouldn't be surprised if the Drug Cartels themselves have some hidden lobby to keep the substances they peddle illegal, to keep their monopoly and high profits."
Neither would I, quite frankly. It would make a lot of sense.
I fear you have mistaken my point. I am not saying you must be shot because you smoke pot. It is your choice, and if it pulls your chain, then go ahead. My gripe is with the predatory dealers out there who do exist, and peddle hard drugs to children. There is a difference, I feel between marijuana and heroin. I am not a part of the drug war, nor have I to the best of my knowledge infringed on the freedoms of any American citizens, or anyone for that matter. I am not "an ignorant fundie tyrant", nor am I a "cynical power broker".
To the best of my knowledge, however, hard drugs do kill people, and change them into shadows of people, and I have seen this happen. I am against this. Does this make me ignorant, unreasonable, fundamentalist, or in some way offensive to your ownership of your own life.
Responsible adults should be allowed to make decisions for themselves to a certain extent, but we should discourage self destruction of all kinds. "Freedom is good, but it needs to balanced with responsibility". that is my personal credo (one of them), but I do not seek to force it upon others .
(sotto voce: yet)
allan
Cabrón
"Freedom is good, but it needs to balanced with responsibility". that is my personal credo (one of them),"
One of mine too. And actually true freedom FORCES true responsibility--because nature can be brutal if one is not responsible. It is not the role of government to "save people from themselves", but the role of each individual. If you fail, you suffer the natural consequences of addiction or whatnot. Pure and simple.
Drug use would not go up (or perhaps only go up very insignificantly) if made legal, btw--those who would choose to try them, have done so regardless. The law is not much of a deterrent, and to make it one would turn us into an absolute police state--already the constitution is slowly turning into toilet paper due in large part to futile efforts to stop this trade. It is certainly not worth flushing the constitution altogether in some crusade to save people from themselves, or preserve high profits for a few, or whatever the motive for this craziness is.
Hard drugs are bad, but loss of liberty is worse.
And I agree there should definitely be age restrictions on sales. These would be more enforceable in a legalized environment, where they are sold behind counters in stores, where the salespeople are in the open and accountable (much like cigarette or alcohol sales). Also the content and quality would be standardized and consistent, eliminating overdoses of the accidental kind (the reckless or subliminally intentional kind would not be changed though).
I wasn't calling YOU a fundy specifically, but a LOT of the people behind more and more draconian laws against not only sales but USE are fundies. And how I feel about fundies? Put it this way, in CivII games when some civ goes fundy I slowly but surely kill them with an extreme vendetta.... I HATE fundamentalism, and September 11 showed us all what it really is. It could destroy the world if we let it.... And besides, NO ONE presumes what is best for ME. I'm only mildly tolerant of this with close family or friends--anyone OUTSIDE my life and experience is NOT qualified to make such judgments.
I was just venting against these presumptuous fools, who are trying to turn my free country into more and more of a police state. I vent against such people now and then, I guess. It wasn't you specifically....
"but we should discourage self destruction of all kinds."
If self-destruction is not ITS OWN discouragement, there's nothing else one can do really, is there? Brutal truth.
"Freedom is good, but it needs to balanced with responsibility". that is my personal credo (one of them),"
but I do not seek to force it upon others ."
There is no need to. True freedom by nature forces either responsibility or death, ultimately. In the paraphrased words of Heinlein's Lazarus Long (I don't have the book he wrote this in with me): "Stupidity is a capital crime, with no jury, and no appeal." Not ALWAYS "capital" of course, but in many cases it can be. And laws or no laws, it always has and always will execute some of the most guilty ones.
One of mine too. And actually true freedom FORCES true responsibility--because nature can be brutal if one is not responsible. It is not the role of government to "save people from themselves", but the role of each individual. If you fail, you suffer the natural consequences of addiction or whatnot. Pure and simple.
Drug use would not go up (or perhaps only go up very insignificantly) if made legal, btw--those who would choose to try them, have done so regardless. The law is not much of a deterrent, and to make it one would turn us into an absolute police state--already the constitution is slowly turning into toilet paper due in large part to futile efforts to stop this trade. It is certainly not worth flushing the constitution altogether in some crusade to save people from themselves, or preserve high profits for a few, or whatever the motive for this craziness is.
Hard drugs are bad, but loss of liberty is worse.
And I agree there should definitely be age restrictions on sales. These would be more enforceable in a legalized environment, where they are sold behind counters in stores, where the salespeople are in the open and accountable (much like cigarette or alcohol sales). Also the content and quality would be standardized and consistent, eliminating overdoses of the accidental kind (the reckless or subliminally intentional kind would not be changed though).
I wasn't calling YOU a fundy specifically, but a LOT of the people behind more and more draconian laws against not only sales but USE are fundies. And how I feel about fundies? Put it this way, in CivII games when some civ goes fundy I slowly but surely kill them with an extreme vendetta.... I HATE fundamentalism, and September 11 showed us all what it really is. It could destroy the world if we let it.... And besides, NO ONE presumes what is best for ME. I'm only mildly tolerant of this with close family or friends--anyone OUTSIDE my life and experience is NOT qualified to make such judgments.
I was just venting against these presumptuous fools, who are trying to turn my free country into more and more of a police state. I vent against such people now and then, I guess. It wasn't you specifically....
"but we should discourage self destruction of all kinds."
If self-destruction is not ITS OWN discouragement, there's nothing else one can do really, is there? Brutal truth.
"Freedom is good, but it needs to balanced with responsibility". that is my personal credo (one of them),"
but I do not seek to force it upon others ."
There is no need to. True freedom by nature forces either responsibility or death, ultimately. In the paraphrased words of Heinlein's Lazarus Long (I don't have the book he wrote this in with me): "Stupidity is a capital crime, with no jury, and no appeal." Not ALWAYS "capital" of course, but in many cases it can be. And laws or no laws, it always has and always will execute some of the most guilty ones.
Simon Darkshade
Mysterious City of Gold
Interesting points. I don't find government intervention so anathema when it is good, and my main concern is that there is regulation and control to stop children from misusing their freedom, as they cannot yet fully understand the consequences of what may seem to be harmless experimentation.
"If self-destruction is not ITS OWN discouragement, there's nothing else one can do really, is there? Brutal truth."
True to an extent, but there are those who do not fully comprehend the full extent of self destruction: the flippant, devil-may -care youth, and those who are not in full possession of their faculties. Sure, a big sign saying "Do not jump off the cliff" will stop most people, but some sort of guard rail or fence to reinforce this for the young etc, should not be put out of the question.
"If self-destruction is not ITS OWN discouragement, there's nothing else one can do really, is there? Brutal truth."
True to an extent, but there are those who do not fully comprehend the full extent of self destruction: the flippant, devil-may -care youth, and those who are not in full possession of their faculties. Sure, a big sign saying "Do not jump off the cliff" will stop most people, but some sort of guard rail or fence to reinforce this for the young etc, should not be put out of the question.
allan
Cabrón
"and my main concern is that there is regulation and control to stop children from misusing their freedom, as they cannot yet fully understand the consequences of what may seem to be harmless experimentation."
Which I've addressed. Of course children are not as competent to make decisions in most areas as adults are, and any rational legal system will recognize that. Again, in a legalized environment, salespeople will be in the open and accountable for any illegal (underage) sales (all transactions that salesperson does on the register are put on record, and ID checks can also be put on record (driver license numbers)). Just like alcohol and tobacco sales. Distributing to minors (buying stuff for them or serving them) would, like for alcohol, also be illegal and carry stiff penalties. Sure some would still get away with it, but a lot less than do now (where sales of illegal substances are by nature NOT in the open). Also, store owners would hardly be motivated to expand their customer base to minors, like pushers are now--since there would only be small profit in these legalized substances, and store owners have so many other items to sell as well (they're diversified). Just like cigarette or alcohol sales--store owners are generally fully supportive of the age restrictions for these.
States could also tax the addictive substances and put that revenue into rehab clinics--that way people who want to quit can get "free" admission to these, since their purchase taxes paid for these services.
Addictive drugs will unfortunately never disappear--but if they are legal and in the open, I daresay they can be better controlled and better kept out of the hands of minors than they are now. What do you think?
Which I've addressed. Of course children are not as competent to make decisions in most areas as adults are, and any rational legal system will recognize that. Again, in a legalized environment, salespeople will be in the open and accountable for any illegal (underage) sales (all transactions that salesperson does on the register are put on record, and ID checks can also be put on record (driver license numbers)). Just like alcohol and tobacco sales. Distributing to minors (buying stuff for them or serving them) would, like for alcohol, also be illegal and carry stiff penalties. Sure some would still get away with it, but a lot less than do now (where sales of illegal substances are by nature NOT in the open). Also, store owners would hardly be motivated to expand their customer base to minors, like pushers are now--since there would only be small profit in these legalized substances, and store owners have so many other items to sell as well (they're diversified). Just like cigarette or alcohol sales--store owners are generally fully supportive of the age restrictions for these.
States could also tax the addictive substances and put that revenue into rehab clinics--that way people who want to quit can get "free" admission to these, since their purchase taxes paid for these services.
Addictive drugs will unfortunately never disappear--but if they are legal and in the open, I daresay they can be better controlled and better kept out of the hands of minors than they are now. What do you think?
