[BTS] Hesha's Random Questions

[Hesha]

You mean because they built the UN / AP? Not sure, either. That's about the only scenario for that, though, right? I mean, your vassal being bigger than the next free AI would be unusual.

 

[Anysense]

You mean because they built the UN / AP? Not sure, either. That's about the only scenario for that, though, right? I mean, your vassal being bigger than the next free AI would be unusual.

Why? It makes sense to have at least one strong vassal. Ideally someone like Mansa or Elizabeth, so they can do some research for you. Conquering takes time, particularly on normal speed. Instead of wasting time beating them up you can vassalize them as soon as they capitulate and go on to another victim.

 

[Hesha]

That's what I meant. The point at which they are willing to capitulate, at least in my games, usually means that they are significantly crippled, usually down to 3 or 4 cities. But then again... I usually have a very low power ration. If I had more troops, they would probably capitulate sooner.

 

[Harv]

Well, the general theme of my current game (shamelessly advertising and thanks @Gumbolt for the advice and patience) is that I should be spamming units instead of buildings. Apparently lots of great things happen when there are lots of units.

 

[Hesha]

Well, the general theme of my current game (shamelessly advertising and thanks @Gumbolt for the advice and patience) is that I should be spamming units instead of buildings. Apparently lots of great things happen when there are lots of units.

Agreed. The least of which is AI thinking twice before messing with you.

 

[Lennier]

Vassals will vote for themselves in AP/UN leader/victory votes if they're one of the two civs in the running.

 

[Gumbolt]

I would say units when used correctly are great production/whipping options when mixed with a strong overall plan. Especially on marathan settings where the window of use for units is greatly extended.

 

[Excal]

I don't know exactly how it works, but if you demand every single resource they have it sometimes pisses them off enough to split free.

See:

54min + 45sec mark

demands Sugar from vassal (refusal means WAR)
DeGaulle refuses and war resumes

 

[krikav]

I had that happen to me in a really tough game.
I barely, just barely bullied my only neighbour into submission and was so happy I could then get his iron for my own use. But when I demanded the iron he just broke free again and I promptly lost the game.

 

[ArchGhost]

That's what I meant. The point at which they are willing to capitulate, at least in my games, usually means that they are significantly crippled, usually down to 3 or 4 cities. But then again... I usually have a very low power ration. If I had more troops, they would probably capitulate sooner.

This can be true, but if you don't cap him he/she will probably just cap to someone else. While they won't necessarily be a problem themselves for the rest of the game, the crazy way it skews their master's power rating makes it MUCH harder to beat them into submission later; I've had AIs refuse to give up until dead because they had a vassal before... A minor headache now to avoid a worse one later.

There are also still useful purposes for a vassal.

Vassals with only a few cities can also still be good techers on high difficulty depending on the leader/land quality, and are still subject to AI trading rules (no WFYABTA between them, lesser tech value in trade, etc) so they can help you collect techs from the rest of the field since your vassal will always trade it to you if they pick it up. Beware that this goes both ways (ex. if you trade them a monopoly you have like MT or Rifling they can and will trade it away for other stuff and proliferate it before you may have planned!)

If they CAN tech somewhat they make good internal partners to bounce techs off of to catch back up. One example: you go up the Steam Power/AL/Physics line and have your vassals work on Combustion line, then swap around techs. This helps a lot trying to get all the way up to Industrialism much quicker.

You can always gift cities back to them after they cap to you for different purposes. Can be a good idea for culturally crushed cities (they can't flip it back from you, but can revolt it over and over if you don't station a garrison) or to strategically close up a border to keep the next target form coming to you without going through the vassal's territory first. Depending on the difficulty only gifting a few cities back can restore their teching power and sometimes you can get away with only gifting back cities to one vassal and keeping everything from the rest going forward if having a teching partner is more helpful. Usually you want to keep as much land as is feasible form the first target though.

 

[earthy]

I had that happen to me in a really tough game.
I barely, just barely bullied my only neighbour into submission and was so happy I could then get his iron for my own use. But when I demanded the iron he just broke free again and I promptly lost the game.

This happened to two days ago! I demanded horse from Mao after capping him so I could build more cuirassiers and he refused. The worst part about it? I had already gifted him back all his cities

Won't be making that mistake again!

 

[Anysense]

Actually, vassals can flip you cities. This happened to me just once, though, and I got it back on the next turn. The city was rather more valuable than the vassal, so the demand was well worth the risk.

 

[Hesha]

Another question, this is really (potentially^^) pissing me off: Why does the BUG tool tip tell me that Nuclear Plants produce pollution? In the "Actual" line it tells me it will cause 2 points of disease or pollution or unhealthiness or whatever it's called. Why? I can't see anything in the manual / civipedia mentioning this!

 

[lymond]

All power plants have a base 2 from power. Coal plants have an additional +2 from coal.

I’ve never built a nuclear plant....ever

 

[Hesha]

What's the alternative if you don't have a river?

 

[krikav]

Neither have I.

The coalplants comes so much earlier that they are what you go for all the time.
Only thinkable game for nuclear is perhaps if you somehow lack coal, but still need the production to go space and hydro isn't an option?

Don't know, have not given it much thought.

 

[krikav]

The alternative is to not build factories.

 

[Hesha]

I usually get Plastics or Fission before I managed to equip all highly productive cities with coal plants. The reason for this is of course that I suck at Civ, but still... I'm also often struggling with Unhealthiness, so even spending 2-3 turns to replace an existing coal plant with a hydro plant would't put me off.

It's just really annoying that the Sevopedia doesn't tell you that "power" creates pollution. That's weird to me.

Also... those buildings that give you pollution from Coal and Oil... do they also give you a double bonus? Or is it actually reasonable to get rid of your access to coal once you have Oil?

EDIT: To be more precise, the Industrial Park (I know, probably a worthless building anyways) gives 1 pollution for Coal and Oil respectively. But there seems to be no bonus from having access to either of these. So... unless I'm running a coal plant, I guess I'm better off making sure that city doesn't have access to coal?

 

[lymond]

Not sure where that info on power is exactly..ha..haven't thought about it in so long. It just something one knows having played so much.

Industrial Park can give up to +4. I don't build those very often, but a couple in the strongest hammer cities might be good since those cities can build things very quickly.

I think you are putting too much emphasis on a city being unhealthy. As long as the city is not starving you should build whatever plant is suitable. With factory/plant those cities can then build health buildings very quickly anyway.

Hydros are obviously the healthiest option, but Coal Plants come earlier. If most of your empire is on one land mass, 3GD may be an option with a GE. It's hella expensive otherwise, but will power all cities on that landmass if those cities have a factory, regardless whether a plant of any type was built. Hydro power will supercede coal plants and remove the unhealthy from coal.

I've just never been in a situation where I needed to build a Nuclear Plant. It's never been a consideration. And if going for Space, you only really need factory/plants in parts cities. Ideally, one plans for all this.

 

[Fippy]

I see the big problem of 3GD in Indust. and Plastics required, 2 very expensive techs which delays Plants everywhere.
Otherwise 1750 would be okay, a strong Ironworks city can manage, and most likely more efficient than every city building coal plants.
If they would be on the same tech, if