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[BTS] Hesha's Random Questions

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by Hesha, Jan 2, 2020.

  1. Hesha

    Hesha Prince

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    I just built 3GD in my cap, took less than 20 turns on Epic, I thought that was acceptable.

    Something weird has happened. I have been behind in tech throught most of the game, Gilgamesh had Infantry before me, for example and he also dominated the score board for a long time. But somehow... he now needs 96 turns to research plastics. How could he possibly fall that far behind? I now have like 6+ techs he doesn't have and all he has is Fascism. His vassal, 3-city-Rags is WAY faster in tech than Gilgamesh who has a really large empire.
     
  2. earthy

    earthy Warlord

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    Gilgamesh probably went culture. I'd take a look at the victory conditions screen.
     
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  3. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!) Hall of Fame Staff

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    ^^^this
     
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  4. Hesha

    Hesha Prince

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    Oh, wow! I didn't know they did that. Wasn't a good idea, didn't really help against my nukes, but Hannibal had built like...90% of all early wonders (quite ridiculous, really) and he was the first AI I took on.

    I won that match on IMM. I was THAT close to quitting because it wasn't funny how far I was behind in tech, but I thought I might give it a go and wouldn't you know it, I caught up. I think I could have gone Space, Dom or Conq, but Dom was the fastest because I only needed a few small islands to get to 64%. I used to hate that the threshold for dom victory wasn't lower, but at this point, I think I agree with it.
     
  5. Hesha

    Hesha Prince

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    I just checked Gilgamesh's victory conditions in my last savegame (1895)... I had already captured his cap by then, but his three next best cities were all 100+ turns away from Legendary.
     
  6. Gumbolt

    Gumbolt Phoenix Rising

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    Saves would really add more value here.
     
  7. Hesha

    Hesha Prince

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    I'm sorry, I always play with BUG as a mod, most people can't open those...
     

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  8. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!) Hall of Fame Staff

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    Taking his cap may have taken him out of culture mode.

    (Curious why you insist on playing BUG standalone. If you are going to do that you might as well use BAT)
     
  9. Hesha

    Hesha Prince

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    I only took the cap like, 2-3 turns before that save, though. Would that make the difference? Or do you mean he dialled back his culture production and thus his remaining cities take that much longer to reach legendary culture?

    (I don't insist on anything. I'm just too lazy to reinstall or have to disable the mod everytime I launch the game, when I'm not intending to share my savegames... :D And the reason why I don't play BAT is that it is my understanding that in contrast to BUG it DOES change gameplay?)
     
  10. Anysense

    Anysense King

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    BAT takes a lot more space on hard drive and it does change gameplay. It enables overflow to gold feature, same as BUFFY.
     
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  11. Hesha

    Hesha Prince

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    An unrelated question... I feel that after conquering a few shrines, it is much better to build Market, Grocer and Bank in those cities and pump out missionaries rather than producing Wealth. If you have a city with more than one shrine or an especially prolific religion, I'd even build Wall Street there. Is this a sound strategy or is it noob nonsense? I've noticed that automated missionaries use airports to airlift themselves to remote cities, so this is pretty great and low maintenance (in terms of micro)! Seems like every new city with the religion gives me between 2-4 GPT, usually 3 or 4.
     
  12. krikav

    krikav Theorycrafter

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    It depends, it can be good and I often end up whipping away angry citizens in a conqured holy city into a bank.
    I'm glad if there is already market/grocer/bank there when I capture it, but that doesn't happen all the time.

    And yes, it can be better to spam missionaries.

    But remember that it's a tradeoff, instead of getting 40g over 3-4 turns building wealth, you get 1-2gpt after first building a missionary for 3-4 turns, then moving that missionary to the city for another 3-4 turns.
    After those 6-8 turns you start to gain a yield and it takes at least 20 turns to break even.
    And missionaries can fail too...
     
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  13. krikav

    krikav Theorycrafter

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    So, can be sound, but can be a suboptimal distraction too.
     
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  14. Hesha

    Hesha Prince

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    Then again, the GPT from the shrine receives multipliers, the Wealth building doesn't. It's a pity nothing speeds up missionary productions. Would have been a nice bonus for either monasteries or cathedrals.

    Obviously, if there is something you should rather build, you should do that. But if it's between Wealth and Missionaries for a shrined religion? I think it's rare that you don't have another 20 turns to break even, right?
     
  15. krikav

    krikav Theorycrafter

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    Thats why I said 1-2 gpt, because of the multipliers (25% market, 25% grocer, 50% bank) thats +100% and thus 2 gpt gain from a missionary.
    Well, once in a blue moon you have wallstreet too, then it would be 3gpt. :)

    I don't know... 20 turns is a rather long time, and thats just to break even, then you have to take into account opportunity cost too...

    It depends on the situation entierly! :D


    *Edit* Add 2 more turns to break even, because you are likely paying unit upkeep cost for the lifespan of the missionary too. */Edit*
     
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  16. Hesha

    Hesha Prince

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    What opportunity cost when the alternative is building wealth? I don't understand...

    And I mean... what's 20 turns when you'll be cashing in on those missionaries for another 200 turns?
     
  17. Hesha

    Hesha Prince

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    Speak for yourself! Not everyone behaves like the Mongols in every game :D
     
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  18. Hesha

    Hesha Prince

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    Hrmmm... I'm dead sure that my GPT at 100% taxes went up by four on several occasions when I successfully spread a religion...
     
  19. sampsa

    sampsa Ghost

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    Because you stopped paying maintenance for the missionary.
     
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  20. sampsa

    sampsa Ghost

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    Well, for example, building wealth will lead you to reach a military tech sooner. Or if you already have that military tech, building units will lead you to get more cities sooner.

    That should be very rare. Are you playing very big maps? I suppose on them shrines can be OK, but on standard sized maps I don't think they alter the game really. Nice to have of course.
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2020
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