"Hi, my name is Ahmed and I want to be a suicide bomber"

[Winner]

That is just BS. If that was the case, radical Muslims would be blowing themselves in Costa Rica, Monaco and San Marino. They aren't. Guess why? because they have NO POLICAL PROBLEM with Costa Rica, Monaco or San Marino.

Muslims engaged in terrorism or other forms of violence in almost every country, that has a relevant Muslim minority. Like Huntington said, Islam has bloody borders.

Other cultural minorities show much better ability to integrate into the majority culture.

 

[storealex]

Interesting - so he isn't just a poor Palestinian who has to kill Jews because he hasn't any other options, as the terrorist-supporters on this forum often argue

Oh come on. We all know there's virtually no terrorists supporters on this forum. Quit the crap...

What we have seen, is that the Palestinian suicidebombers have increased. Meanwhile we have seen the Palestinian situation become more desperate. Close your eyes if you want to, but your "It's all the Muslims fault" mindset is not going to bring peace.

Finally, this is a single example, used to make a point on a wider issue. It's the same when Mobboss says "Well it's warm right here, right now, so there's is no such thing as global warming"
...

 

[C~G]

Well Winner, he certainly proved you wrong.
In the face of logic like that, you have no choice but to concede.

It is rather logical follow-up from all this show he puts up and now he even admitted it. Even though I don't understand the whole point about conceding. Some islamophobics just want to keep this subject coming up again and again so they can try to keep arguing about the same points thousand times.

Unfortunately people are too clever on this forum to fall into brainwashing material that claim Islam being inherently evil.
Doesn't matter how many times it is repeated.

Too bad for two of you.

 

[storealex]

Not really. But I find it acceptable

How can you find killing of civilians acceptable? Are you stupid?

 

[Revolutionary]

"It is full of immorality and elements that are forbidden by Allah, like free sex and violence"

I find this part amusing, he's critizing American culture for violence and says that it is forbidden by Allah but he has no problem using violence and going against Allah teachings

Hypocrisy!

the propaganda is incoherent

 

[Winner]

Oh come on. We all know there's virtually no terrorists supporters on this forum. Quit the crap...

If you advocate terrorism, you support it, as simple as that. You don't like it, ok, but it is true.

What we have seen, is that the Palestinian suicidebombers have increased. Meanwhile we have seen the Palestinian situation become more desperate. Close your eyes if you want to, but your "It's all the Muslims fault" mindset is not going to bring peace.

Fortunately, Israelis managed to minimize the damage by building the hated West Bank barrier.

But on the topic: you should open your eyes and see, that this "islam has nothing to do with terrorism" is simply not tenable anymore. You can name whatever reasons you want, but it is now clear and obvious, that Islam is one of the root-causes of suicide bombings.

Suicide bombers attacked Britain - does it mean that British Muslims are oppressed and don't have any other choice? No. Their terrorism isn't just a form of defense, as you and other people say, it is aggresive, violent way of achieving your goals.

The goal, in the case of Muslim suicide bombers, is to destroy everything un-Islamic.

Finally, this is a single example, used to make a point on a wider issue. It's the same when Mobboss says "Well it's warm right here, right now, so there's is no such thing as global warming"
...

It is just an example used to support my point. It is not the cornerstone of my argument.

 

[Winner]

How can you find killing of civilians acceptable? Are you stupid?

Nope, he's a terrorist-supporter, like I said

 

[Winner]

"It is full of immorality and elements that are forbidden by Allah, like free sex and violence"

I find this part amusing, he's critizing American culture for violence and says that it is forbidden by Allah but he has no problem using violence and going against Allah teachings

Hypocrisy!

the propaganda is incoherent

Islam is hypocrisy. Muslims say their faith is peaceful, but they violently attack those who say it is not. Their holy book says "live in peace, tolerate the unbelievers" on one page, and on another it calls for all Muslims to slain them and make war on them. It says men should respect women, but then it command to beat them if they're not obedient. It denounces idolatry, but Muslims worship a black stone in Kaaba.

That religion isn't even logically coherent, so its violent parts can easily overshadow the more reasonable parts (which is happening right now).

 

[storealex]

If you advocate terrorism, you support it, as simple as that. You don't like it, ok, but it is true.

How do you know whether I like it or not? Oh that's right, you don't. I happen to agree, but apart from a few nutters, you don't see people here advocating terrorism.
What you're doing now, is pointing at the worst (the nutters) in order to criticise the lot (The rest of us, who don't like terror, but do try to understand why it occurs, so that we might better prevent it)

Fortunately, Israelis managed to minimize the damage by building the hated West Bank barrier.

And because they also used it as a landgrap, they spawned even more wanna-be terrorists.

But on the topic: you should open your eyes and see, that this "islam has nothing to do with terrorism" is simply not tenable anymore.

And where have I said that Islam has nothing to do with terrorism? Oh wait, that's right, I havn't! This is the second time you incorrectly assume stuff about me.

You can name whatever reasons you want, but it is now clear and obvious, that Islam is one of the root-causes of suicide bombings.

I think it plays a part, yes. The same way oppression does.

It is just an example used to support my point. It is not the cornerstone of my argument.

It's a populistic stunt.

 

[Princeps]

How can you find killing of civilians acceptable? Are you stupid?

If Israelis are allowed to kill civilians with pitiless regularity without consiquences, Palestinian are allowed to do so as well.

 

[Panda]

Hi, my name is Ahmed and I want to be a suicide bomber

The good thing in this is that he'll do it only once.

 

[Mott1]

It is rather logical follow-up from all this show he puts up and now he even admitted it. Even though I don't understand the whole point about conceding.

Resorting to ad hominem is hardly a logical follow up.

Some islamophobics just want to keep this subject coming up again and again so they can try to keep arguing about the same points thousand times.

There are many "Christianophobic" and "Westernphobic" threads, I don't hear you complaining about them.

Unfortunately people are too clever on this forum to fall into brainwashing material that claim Islam being inherently evil.
Doesn't matter how many times it is repeated.

Too bad for two of you.

Well the doctrine of Islam is inherently violent, intolerant and misogynistic. I don't know about you but some people do find those qualities to be evil. Is it possible that perhaps you may be brainwashed on material that claims Islam to be inherently benign?

I guess you also consider me an "Islamophobe," thats ok I've been called much worse. In fact if speaking the truth merits me the name "Islamophobe," then I also thankyou.

 

[storealex]

If Israelis are allowed to kill civilians with pitiless regularity without consiquences, Palestinian are allowed to do so as well.

Never mind. You are stupid.

Moderator Action: Warned for flaming
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[Winner]

I guess you also consider me an "Islamophobe," thats ok I've been called much worse. In fact if speaking the truth merits me the name "Islamophobe," then I also thankyou.

Phobia - fear of something. Sometimes irrational, but in my case, the fear is based on facts. I think I know Islam sufficiently enough to be afraid of the ideology it spawns in its followers.

I am well aware that the term "islamophobic" is used mostly as a pejorative, but in this case, I don't mind it, because it in fact best describes my attitude.

 

[HannibalBarka]

Muslims engaged in terrorism or other forms of violence in almost every country, that has a relevant Muslim minority. Like Huntington said, Islam has bloody borders.
Other cultural minorities show much better ability to integrate into the majority culture.

That is BS again. Muslims engaged in terrorism with some of the countries they have political problems with either internally or externally, those countries being muslims countries very often. The fact that they are a significant minority, a small minority, a majority or completly inexistant does not plays a significant role.
There is sizable muslims minority in South Africa, actually in almsot every country in the southern part of Africa, in the Caraibeean (sp?), in Canada, in Sweden, in Switzerland, in Austria, etc none of those countries have been the victim of islamic terrorism. Guess why? Islamists don't have any political problem with those countries.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Thats because they are called "freedomfighters" on this forum.

No they're not.

 

[Winner]

That is BS again. Muslims engaged in terrorism with some of the countries they have political problems with either internally or externally, those countries being muslims countries very often. The fact that they are a significant minority, a small minority, a majority or completly inexistant does not plays a significant role.
There is sizable muslims minority in South Africa, actually in almsot every country in the southern part of Africa, in the Caraibeean (sp?), in Canada, in Sweden, in Switzerland, in Austria, etc none of those countries have been the victim of islamic terrorism. Guess why? Islamists don't have any political problem with those countries.

I forgot that the ultimate objective of every state is to appease the Islamist movement. Thanks for reiterating it

 

[C~G]

There are many "Christianophobic" and "Westernphobic" threads, I don't hear you complaining about them.

Have I been involved in such threads condemning the christianity as whole?

The reason I happen to defend Islam in this board is because it seems people have misconceptions about it and I don't want people to only hear and see evil.

Resorting to ad hominem is hardly a logical follow up.

Ad hominem?

If I would have said that Winner is stupid, that might have been ad hominem but calling him exactly by definition that matches his viewpoints in this thread (and others as well) hardly is Ad Hominem.

Let me demonstrate:

Well the doctrine of Islam is inherently violent, intolerant and misogynistic. I don't know about you but some people do find those qualities to be evil.

Logical follow-up => yet another islamophobic.

In 1996, the Runnymede Trust, an independent anti-racist think tank in the UK, established the Commission on British Muslims and Islamophobia, chaired by Professor Gordon Conway, the vice-chancellor of the University of Sussex. The commission's 1997 report, Islamophobia: A Challenge For Us All, lists eight distinctive features of Islamophobia:

1. Islam is seen as a monolithic bloc, static and unresponsive to change.
2. It is seen as separate and “other”. It does not have values in common with other cultures, is not affected by them and does not influence them.
3. It is seen as inferior to the West. It is seen as barbaric, irrational, primitive, and sexist.
4. It is seen as violent, aggressive, threatening, supportive of terrorism, and engaged in a Clash of Civilizations.
5. It is seen as a political ideology, used for political or military advantage.
6. Criticisms made of 'the West' by Islam are rejected out of hand.
7. Hostility towards Islam is used to justify discriminatory practices towards Muslims and exclusion of Muslims from mainstream society.
8. Anti-Muslim hostility is seen as natural and normal.

Kind of describes well some posters here on board, doesn't it? (It almost hurts how well)


So it's very logical. Sorry.

Is it possible that perhaps you may be brainwashed on material that claims Islam to be inherently benign?

I don't believe anything to be "inherently something". It's like saying that Walt Disney productions are evil.

This whole is Islam religion of peace or terror is exactly kind of mismatch ballgame guys like you want to play in order to convince Islam is evil. I don't believe Christianity is neither inherently evil or good. It comes all shapes and sizes.
Some people are forever tied to level I in the discussion as one thread by Bozo might suggest.

I guess you also consider me an "Islamophobe," thats ok I've been called much worse. In fact if speaking the truth merits me the name "Islamophobe," then I also thankyou.

Sorry, but hate and fearmongering ain't speaking the truth out.

In the past I have tried to discuss with you about these things in logical fashion (since some things what you say are true) but I have noticed that going further into issue leads only logical follow up is indeed that you are islamophobic and you believe into your disillisioned reality as much as creationists believe into theirs against the evolution.

So it's better maybe use the same tactic as Dawkins uses against ID.
It's better not to engage into meaningfull debate with islamophobics since it would give some air (some credibility) to their cause in the eyes of the public when the reality is all lot different.

I am well aware that the term "islamophobic" is used mostly as a pejorative, but in this case, I don't mind it, because it in fact best describes my attitude.

Thank you. At least you are brutally honest about it.

 

[Princeps]

Never mind. You are stupid.

Now that is plain flaming.

Why is it that Israel can commit any acts of terrorism it wants and Palestinians shouldn't resist at all?

Why does someone strap a bomb belt around himself and walk into a crowded bus in Israel?

Why is it that this happens?

I do not encourage killing civilians, but I can accept terrorist acts in the situation where Palestinians are. Civilians have been killed for even more trivial reasons, by powers which we today consider "democracies".

Actually, I formed my previous statement little poorly. It's more like this...

If Israelis are allowed to kill civilians with pitiless regularity without consiquences, Palestinian are allowed to kill civilians as well. The difference is that Israel does it regularly, while Palestinian resistence fighters only occasionally bomb Israeli civilians. While Palestinians bomb only limited areas, Israel imposes collective punishment on most of the Palestine.

 

[HannibalBarka]

But on the topic: you should open your eyes and see, that this "islam has nothing to do with terrorism" is simply not tenable anymore. You can name whatever reasons you want, but it is now clear and obvious, that Islam is one of the root-causes of suicide bombings.

OK, repeating some thing and using clear, obvious, not tenabel, etc is not going to make your point more valid. Arguments, arguments please

Suicide bombers attacked Britain - does it mean that British Muslims are oppressed and don't have any other choice? No. Their terrorism isn't just a form of defense, as you and other people say, it is aggresive, violent way of achieving your goals.

Terrorism is violent, yeah, well that is news to you? War also is.

The goal, in the case of Muslim suicide bombers, is to destroy everything un-Islamic.

no, the goal is not always the same, definetly not the same in the case of UK and Israel for example, and is always political (like war)