"Hi, my name is Ahmed and I want to be a suicide bomber"

[aneeshm]

If Israelis are allowed to kill civilians with pitiless regularity without consiquences, Palestinian are allowed to do so as well.

Elementary fallacy here.

Two wrongs do not make a right.

 

[Sh3kel]

Finally, to answer your question in this second quote box in this post: See Western foreign policy, which both the London and Madrid terrorist groups referred to as motivations for their attacks and which Palestinians refer to also.

Never make the assumption that the Press release the terrorist organizations issue are the actual reasons for the bombings. There are entire college-level courses taught on how to properly interpret a message issued by a terrorist group. The most interesting message passed in those courses is generally that "Excuses and ruses certainly have their uses" - they might be refering to the Foreign Policy of their target countries, however they're fully aware that their attacks will only strenghten the resolve of their targets towards being even more vicious in their steps against terrorism. While this is what the superficial level of the message might read, the Islamic rhetoric chosen to portray it and the means thorugh which the message is conveyed bear as much importance in the message as body language does when you're talking to someone face to face - the message is "we're attacking because of their foreign policy", but they're also telling you by refering to the Spaniards as the Conquistadors that they consider the Caliphate of Andalucia to be the true kingdom of Spain and the Spanish to be occupying muslim land illegally, and their referral to UK as the lap dog of the Great Devil only tells you that the UK is percieved fundamentally as being associated with evil.

Foreign policy my ass. You don't willingly commit suicide solely over a border dispute without massive cultural and religios indoctrination. This isn't a political issue, it's a cultural thing.

Sure poverty is among the causes of the Palestinians Intifada, but not the only one...They would revolt less if they were "rich". Actually French and American Revoltutions, though have deeper causes, started because of poverty or over "money"

The American colonies revolted over being overly-taxed for their size without proper representation in Paliament. And even then the American minutemen were properly educated enough as to target the Redcoats in open combat or in covert actions against military targets, not by burning down villages or slaughtering the peasantry. Being poor is a mitigating reason for asking welfare. It isn't a reason to commit murder or any other crime whatsoever. This is also in stark contrast to the factual background of most Suicide bombers - they're middle class University studens or graduates. Hell, Osama Bin-Laden's personal fortune is estimated to be in the dozens of millions of USD. It's more than likely that he earns in interests in one month what most of us in the forums do in a year!

Yeah so?
There are plenty of immigrants from muslim countries in France who bust their ass off trying to make ends meet (like me ) and There are some of immigrants from non-muslim countries in France who set public property on fire
Your point?

That both muslim and non-muslim hooligans belong in prison, not in public. Your country has a 17% support rate for a self-proclaimed Xenophobe who calls for the immigrants to go back to where they came from, and the police had to actively shoot and kill a man who was part of a lynch mob trying to kill French-Jews just a week ago!

He wasn't. He however did not make groundless generalization like you.
He will be doing so if he stated that Israeli are all rapists because your President is or Israeli are all murderers because Yigal Amir or Dr Goldsetin were murderes and Israelis

A month's worth of protests dubbed "the immigrant riots" by your own press which led to mutliple cars being set on fire by immigrants who came mostly from muslim-countries hardly consists making my claim that Muslim-Immigrants are prone to setting things on fire as protests over trivial issues other groups tend to overcome instead of annihilate to be lacking in any sort of factual basis.

 

[Princeps]

Elementary fallacy here.

Two wrongs do not make a right.

Yes, and you can read my correction of that post in my third post in this thread.

There are no wrongs and rights like the way you say. Israel is commiting a many great wrongs, and to resist that, Palestinians commit smaller wrongs.

 

[MobBoss]

Thats the problem with religion, it make them believe in irrational things. No room for logic, they do not analyse or reflect upon themselve. they just read and believe. And what a gullible fool he is. (the problem is that he is so full of himself also)

So Ahmed is a nutter thus all religion is the problem.

Nice leap there.

Oh...and I dont agree.

 

[Cheezy the Wiz]

I wonder how much of the Koran he actually read on his own before coming to that conclusion? My guess is none, that he was probably told to read specific passages, and told how to interpret them by some other categorically nasty Muslim.

 

[REDY]

terrorist-supporters - is this I, or who?

 

[HannibalBarka]

Never make the assumption that the Press release the terrorist organizations issue are the actual reasons for the bombings. There are entire college-level courses taught on how to properly interpret a message issued by a terrorist group. The most interesting message passed in those courses is generally that "Excuses and ruses certainly have their uses" - they might be refering to the Foreign Policy of their target countries, however they're fully aware that their attacks will only strenghten the resolve of their targets towards being even more vicious in their steps against terrorism. While this is what the superficial level of the message might read, the Islamic rhetoric chosen to portray it and the means thorugh which the message is conveyed bear as much importance in the message as body language does when you're talking to someone face to face - the message is "we're attacking because of their foreign policy", but they're also telling you by refering to the Spaniards as the Conquistadors that they consider the Caliphate of Andalucia to be the true kingdom of Spain and the Spanish to be occupying muslim land illegally, and their referral to UK as the lap dog of the Great Devil only tells you that the UK is percieved fundamentally as being associated with evil.

Islamic terrorists like any other kind of people use symbols. Israel itself use symbol, some are even completly 'disputible' symbols like Massada. so?

Foreign policy my ass. You don't willingly commit suicide solely over a border dispute without massive cultural and religios indoctrination. This isn't a political issue, it's a cultural thing.

I almost agree with you on the bolded part. It is however neither a political issue and not a cultural thing.

You commit suicide if:
1. you have a political reason
2. You are indoctrinated some what

You can't kill yourself and kill others without having been soem what indoctrinated.
I however think it's also the case, although to a lesser degree due to uncertainty, for Military people dropping bombs. You need to "believe" the stuff your country is telling you in order to drop a bomb knowing that you are going to kill people, and that there is a good chance you are going to kill the wrong people.

The American colonies revolted over being overly-taxed for their size without proper representation in Paliament. And even then the American minutemen were properly educated enough as to target the Redcoats in open combat or in covert actions against military targets, not by burning down villages or slaughtering the peasantry. Being poor is a mitigating reason for asking welfare. It isn't a reason to commit murder or any other crime whatsoever. This is also in stark contrast to the factual background of most Suicide bombers - they're middle class University studens or graduates. Hell, Osama Bin-Laden's personal fortune is estimated to be in the dozens of millions of USD. It's more than likely that he earns in interests in one month what most of us in the forums do in a year!

Being poor is not enough of the reason to "revolt", it is however a good catalyzer.

That both muslim and non-muslim hooligans belong in prison, not in public. Your country has a 17% support rate for a self-proclaimed Xenophobe who calls for the immigrants to go back to where they came from, and the police had to actively shoot and kill a man who was part of a lynch mob trying to kill French-Jews just a week ago!

Strangely enough, the self proclaimed xenophobe hold the same opinion about muslim immigrants you have
He also is anti-semetic. There are actually french-arabs dumb enough to vote for him because he hates Jews and french-jews just as dumb to vote for him because he hates Arabs

A month's worth of protests dubbed "the immigrant riots" by your own press which led to mutliple cars being set on fire by immigrants who came mostly from muslim-countries hardly consists making my claim that Muslim-Immigrants are prone to setting things on fire as protests over trivial issues other groups tend to overcome instead of annihilate to be lacking in any sort of factual basis.

Yeeah, well you'll find people arguiing that Cuba is a paradise in the French press. The main stream media never stated so. Show me some articles saying that it was "muslims immigrants rioting"
The french internal security however stated that the rioters have only one thing in common "poor", they were muslims, antillans and whites

 

[Winner]

terrorist-supporters - is this I, or who?

Mlč, prosímtě
Moderator Action: Remember, English-language forum. Please provide translations if you plan on adding in another language. Thanks. - The Yankee
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[JohnRM]

Well, thats 1 catagorically nasty Muslim, 1.4 billion more and you'll have yourself a complete proof that Islam is fundementally evil.

I bet that, ironically, you are one to tout the so-called "scientific" polling, in this country. I don't need any further proof. I didn't even need to read this article. I have the deaths of thousands of Americans, Israelites, Europeans, and others as proof. I have the silence of the overwhelming, vast, near absolute total of the rest of the 1.3 Billion (not 1.4) Muslims in the face of these cowardly attacks. 'Nuff said, for me.

 

[Phlegmak]

So in the end Ahmed is just twisted minded monkey that has lost the true way of peaceful Islam. Nothing else, nothing more.

Islam is inherently violent, as are other monotheistic religions.

Please show me one muslim-terrorist-supporter on this forum.

I'll show you two! zenspiderz and Pasi Nurminen.

And I'm sorry Winner but even though one suicide bomber does it because of the paradise thing it doesn't mean there aren't those that does it because of lack of options.

Unfortunately, he isn't the only one suicide bomber who does these things due to rewards in paradise.

 

[REDY]

Mlč, prosímtě

Rather you should reply. Or you dont understand my poor English? I should tell it in Czech. Its little offensive tell that somebody from CFC is terrorist-supporter within tell who is

 

[JohnRM]

That is just BS. If that was the case, radical Muslims would be blowing themselves in Costa Rica, Monaco and San Marino. They aren't. Guess why? because they have NO POLICAL PROBLEM with Costa Rica, Monaco or San Marino.

But they ARE blowing themselves up in America, the United Kingdom, Spain, Lebanon, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, parts of Africa, Afghanistan, Kashmir, India, China, Indonesia, the Philippines, Myanmar, and however many other places. Perhaps Costa Rica, Monaco, and San Marino are further down the list.

 

[MobBoss]

Islam is inherently violent, as are other monotheistic religions.

Uhm...no. By all means, point out the violence inherit in Jesus' message.

Moderator Action: No need to threadjack. If it really means that much, start a new thread on it. Or, try searching for an already existing thread on the subject.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[JohnRM]

If Israelis are allowed to kill civilians with pitiless regularity without consiquences, Palestinian are allowed to do so as well.

Yeah, nevermind that the Arabs put civilians, both women and children into harms way, on purpose, for the publicity that it gathers. Nevermind that these so-called "militants" in the West Bank are almost always plain-clothed and all that one must do is simply remove the weapon from the dead body and they become a civilian casualty. Nevermind that Israel does not purposely target civilians.

 

[JohnRM]

That is BS again. Muslims engaged in terrorism with some of the countries they have political problems with either internally or externally, those countries being muslims countries very often. The fact that they are a significant minority, a small minority, a majority or completly inexistant does not plays a significant role.
There is sizable muslims minority in South Africa, actually in almsot every country in the southern part of Africa, in the Caraibeean (sp?), in Canada, in Sweden, in Switzerland, in Austria, etc none of those countries have been the victim of islamic terrorism. Guess why? Islamists don't have any political problem with those countries.

Their attention is diverted elsewhere toward other enemies or towards finding their next meal.

 

[REDY]

If Israelis are allowed to kill civilians with pitiless regularity without consiquences, Palestinian are allowed to do so as well.

Its barbaric also from Isrealis, but its not argument.

 

[Leonel]

I still don't see why they want to do it with 72 virgins. I did it with one this one time and it was so awkward it really turned me off the whole idea.

 

[Ayatollah So]

BOMBER: I originally decided to become a martyr after I saw what the Israeli army did in the refugee camp of Jenin in the big military campaign of April, 2002.

That says it all right there. I wonder where he "saw" it - TV?

 

[Kozmos]

Therefore this Daniel, I am sure, participated in the army activity. If not, he collected money for this Zionist entity. If not, he would decide one day to come to live here as a settler. Therefore there is no way that he can be defined as innocent.

ROTFLMAO!!!

 

[Underseer]

In your very second paragraph you accuse anyone who disagrees with you of being a "terrorist supporter."

Right there I lost all interest in maintaining any sort of dialog with you, or even bothering to read any more of your post.