"Hi, my name is Ahmed and I want to be a suicide bomber"

[Winner]

Trajan12: OK so Koran is violent? But were terrorists so active during all muslim history as now? Why the hell during crusades may live Christians and jews in Muslim society more in peace than muslims and jews in European countries when most of muslim leaders were islam fanatics?

Gods, still the same irrelevant arguments.

I don't care, really, I don't if Muslims were relatively more peaceful than Christians deep in the Middle Ages.

Islamic societies have been stagnant for centuries. Now, they're desperately fighting against the more advanced civilizations and because they're so backwards, the only thing they can use that can hurt us is terrorism.

Instead of reforming themselves (like Chinese and Indians did), they stick to the same traditions that got them into this mess.

 

[woody60707]

That was a scary read. Nearly as bad as reading about Americans wanting to be sent to Iraq.

HAHA!

 

[Revolutionary]

Good sir, you have made the very mistake that so many terrorists have: you have taken specific passages out of the Koran, and interpreted them to say what you want them to. You have to look at the Koran as a whole, not single out passages as you - and they - have done.

Although I'm certain it wasn't a mistake on the terrorists' part, truth is if they couldn't find a passage in their holy books to justify their actions they would search else where for that justification or invent one themselves

 

[Sidhe]

That was a scary read. Nearly as bad as reading about Americans wanting to be sent to Iraq.

Very scarey and seldom have I seen such partisan views on any thread, if only the world was that black and white, it'd be so easy to condemn everyone who didn't subscribe to your view point: this issue is a mess, and frankly it's hard to know what to believe; but one thing I do believe is that there are no angels and no devils on either side, just politically infantile circular argument that is inclined to promote hate.

Relgion though, do these people even understand what their religion believes and do they really think that God wants us to kill his children endlessly in the name of political strife? If it's in any religious text I'd like to see it I mean strving yes but endless aggression? Pointlessly over dramtasized religous crap, with little or no real religion, I'd ask people to grow up, but the worlds an infantile mess generally.

The whole situation is a physician heal thyself deal, or those who are without sin cast the first stone. Honestly it would take someone to actually follow their faith coherently to devolve themselves from such a deal, and someone with a conviction not to ascribe an endless cycle of blame and semantic self serving argument as if they are just and have never comitted wrong. Not in my life time. If the situation is going to be solved, some people need to get over themselves, and it's a whole world deal, if not let's play the senseless my culture is better than your culture, idealistic game untill we all get sick of the violence, retire to a safe place and then start it all over again.

This rant can be picked up in paper back under, God: WTH are these people talking about, I never even half insinuated that s**t. Coming to a prophet near you.

 

[Cannae]

Stalin was an atheist. In case you didnt know.

But he was born and rasied a Orthodox

Show me where I said that clearly made up statement.

You didn't say that directly but that's I think you where implying it inderectly

 

[HannibalBarka]

Please tell me that I misunderstand your post, and that you did not just compare dropping tons of ordnance on a hostile country during wartime with the remote possibility of several specimens of said bombs not detonating on impact due to manufacture error to willingly using human shields and comitting suicide attacks.

If you honestly cannot see the distinction between dropping a bomb on a military target and having it not go off between actively telling your civilian population to shield terrorists with their own lives, I fear we have little else to discuss.

The bombs I am talking about are called cluster bombs, and yes one needs to be proufoundly brainwashed to accept to use those kind of weapens cause they don't all detonate when dropped and no that is not a mulfunction because it happens too often, and thus it is certain they are going to explode one day and kill an innocent person.

OF ALL THE statistics to emerge from Israel's recent war on Lebanon, the most shocking concerns the number of cluster bombs that Israel dropped on or fired into Lebanon.

A cluster bomb is made up of a canister that opens and releases hundreds of individual bomblets, which are dispersed and explode over a wide area, showering it with molten metal and lethal fragments.

About 40% of the bomblets dropped by Israel (many of which were American-made) did not explode in the air or on impact with the ground. They now detonate when someone disturbs them — a soldier, a farmer, a shepherd, a child attracted by the lure of a shiny metal object.

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-oe-makdisi21oct21,0,1230325.story?coll=la-opinion-rightrail

So if you think it is normal to use this kind of weapen, I also fear we have little else to discuss

And when I was talking about using human shields I was talking about the IDF who used palestinian as human shields in Jenin.

 

[HannibalBarka]

Gods, still the same irrelevant arguments.
I don't care, really, I don't if Muslims were relatively more peaceful than Christians deep in the Middle Ages.

It irrelevant unless one claim that their religion is inherentluy evil

Islamic societies have been stagnant for centuries. Now, they're desperately fighting against the more advanced civilizations and because they're so backwards, the only thing they can use that can hurt us is terrorism.
Instead of reforming themselves (like Chinese and Indians did), they stick to the same traditions that got them into this mess.

what was the chinese reform? and why are the Islamic societies desperately fighting against the more advanced civilizations ?

 

[Winner]

what was the chinese reform? and why are the Islamic societies desperately fighting against the more advanced civilizations ?

Deng Xiaoping's (I hope this is the correct English spelling, in Czech, it is completely different and I am sure neither has anything in common with the real Chinese name of that guy ) reforms that introduced market economy into China.

I don't know, maybe because they realized, that their cultural traditions are inferior and their society cannot compete with the West and others.

 

[Atlas14]

God helped destroy the walls of cities, helped citizens of cities meet their doom. Moses murdered a bunch of Egyptians. Perhaps we should assume Christianity is inherently violent.

 

[Winner]

God helped destroy the walls of cities, helped citizens of cities meet their doom. Moses murdered a bunch of Egyptians. Perhaps we should assume Christianity is inherently violent.

Somehow, the only argument people can copme up with when they're trying to justify the Islamic crimes is "hey, but Christians do that too!".

No, they don't, period.

 

[C~G]

Somehow, the only argument people can copme up with when they're trying to justify the Islamic crimes is "hey, but Christians do that too!".

No, they don't, period.

Mirror, mirror

Somehow, the only argument people can come up with when they're trying to criminalize the Islamic actions is "hey, but nobody else does it! So it must be because of Islam!"

Yes, they do, period.

 

[Trajan12]

Originally Posted by Cheezy the Wiz
Good sir, you have made the very mistake that so many terrorists have: you have taken specific passages out of the Koran, and interpreted them to say what you want them to. You have to look at the Koran as a whole, not single out passages as you - and they - have done

How should I interpret them when they are so boldly violent?

Also, when they have orders like these in the Quran what am I supposed to do? Ignore them? I look at it as a whole and still find it riddled with violence, oppression, discrimination, and hate for all things not muslim. And if posters here say that it is ok that since they have good passages in the Quran than Islam is not violent from now on I'll say that "love thy neighbor" outlaws everything else they could use for fire against us. We'll see ow they respond.

Originally Posted by REDY
Trajan12: OK so Koran is violent? But were terrorists so active during all muslim history as now? Why the hell during crusades may live Christians and jews in Muslim society more in peace than muslims and jews in European countries when most of muslim leaders were islam fanatics?

I'd argue they were, just that we did not have the same name for them and their activities.

Somehow, the only argument people can copme up with when they're trying to justify the Islamic crimes is "hey, but Christians do that too!".


No, they don't, period

Wanna bet how long before that happens again?

 

[HannibalBarka]

Deng Xiaoping's (I hope this is the correct English spelling, in Czech, it is completely different and I am sure neither has anything in common with the real Chinese name of that guy ) reforms that introduced market economy into China.
I don't know, maybe because they realized, that their cultural traditions are inferior and their society cannot compete with the West and others.

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah, it's that. OK; well, in that case the reform was from a 100% western inspired idea (communism) to another less western inspired idea (Capitalism,sort of) so they didin't really left "their cultural traditions " for the western ones.
And I don't know of any chinese considering their cultural traditions inferior to the West, quite the opposite

 

[HannibalBarka]

Somehow, the only argument people can copme up with when they're trying to justify the Islamic crimes is "hey, but Christians do that too!".

No, they don't, period.

Srebreniça Srebreniça Srebreniça Srebreniça Srebreniça Srebreniça Srebreniça Srebreniça Srebreniça Srebreniça Srebreniça Srebreniça

 

[Dann]

And I don't know of any chinese considering their cultural traditions inferior to the West, quite the opposite

Damn right. The nerve of that Winner fella to spread such lies.

 

[Atlas14]

Somehow, the only argument people can copme up with when they're trying to justify the Islamic crimes is "hey, but Christians do that too!".

No, they don't, period.

Well the Christian God must sponsor such killing then because the Bible clearly states that God helped innocent citizens of cities be slaughtered, walls of cities be crushed, and Moses' murder of Egyptians. And if that is allowable because God said it is, and then if Allah allows the Muslims to partake in their version of crime, there is no problem. Either both are inherently violent or neither are. Period.

 

[Revolutionary]

I don't know, maybe because they realized, that their cultural traditions are inferior and their society cannot compete with the West and others.

5000+ years of cultural traditions inferior to the west?

wow! the arrogance of such a claim

 

[Sh3kel]

The bombs I am talking about are called cluster bombs, and yes one needs to be proufoundly brainwashed to accept to use those kind of weapens cause they don't all detonate when dropped and no that is not a mulfunction because it happens too often, and thus it is certain they are going to explode one day and kill an innocent person.

OF ALL THE statistics to emerge from Israel's recent war on Lebanon, the most shocking concerns the number of cluster bombs that Israel dropped on or fired into Lebanon.

A cluster bomb is made up of a canister that opens and releases hundreds of individual bomblets, which are dispersed and explode over a wide area, showering it with molten metal and lethal fragments.

About 40% of the bomblets dropped by Israel (many of which were American-made) did not explode in the air or on impact with the ground. They now detonate when someone disturbs them — a soldier, a farmer, a shepherd, a child attracted by the lure of a shiny metal object.

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-oe-makdisi21oct21,0,1230325.story?coll=la-opinion-rightrail

So if you think it is normal to use this kind of weapen, I also fear we have little else to discuss

And when I was talking about using human shields I was talking about the IDF who used palestinian as human shields in Jenin.

You are seriously equating a manufacturer error in the means of an explosive error to a suicidial maniac who straps a bomb to his chest and claiming you need to be brainwashed to use them both?!? Do you know anything about modern warfare that you didn't learn in Civilization?!? We're not dropping mines with the deliberate intent of killing children, we're using Anti-Personnel weapon to flush out and destroy enemy hard points and bunkers! Oh horrible Israeli Army, how dare you kill people?!?

 

[Winner]

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah, it's that. OK; well, in that case the reform was from a 100% western inspired idea (communism) to another less western inspired idea (Capitalism,sort of) so they didin't really left "their cultural traditions " for the western ones.
And I don't know of any chinese considering their cultural traditions inferior to the West, quite the opposite

You completely fail to understand what we're talking about (well, what I am talking about). Not that it was uncommon.

Chinese accepted modernity (which was invented by the West), but it still stick up with its cultural traditions. In other words, it seeks modernity without becoming Western.

Islamic society doesn't want modernity, because modernity is against its very principles. That's why they are and why they'll remain backwards.

 

[Princeps]

First of all, WTH is "modernity"