"Hi, my name is Ahmed and I want to be a suicide bomber"

[Winner]

5000+ years of cultural traditions inferior to the west?

wow! the arrogance of such a claim

Learn to read, people, and please, stop jumping to conclusions because you're unable to understand simple sentences.

Islamic culture was created in 7th and 8th century. So no 5000+ years of culture. Since then, Islamic societies have stangated. Only because the speed of scientific advancement was low during the Middle Ages, they were able to conquer much of the World. But once the West entered industrial era, their stagnation became obvious.

Now I said, that countries like Japan, China and India managed to reform, learn how to do things from the West, but retain their cultural traditions. Islamic societies didn't. After the short experiment with socialism and nationalism, they're reverting to the old good islamic fundamentalism in false hope it will save them. It won't, it will just keep them poor and backwards.

What they need is to profoundly reform their way of life, because their culture is an obstacle.

 

[HannibalBarka]

You are seriously equating a manufacturer error in the means of an explosive error to a suicidial maniac who straps a bomb to his chest and claiming you need to be brainwashed to use them both?!? Do you know anything about modern warfare that you didn't learn in Civilization?!? We're not dropping mines with the deliberate intent of killing children, we're using Anti-Personnel weapon to flush out and destroy enemy hard points and bunkers! Oh horrible Israeli Army, how dare you kill people?!?

When 40% of the bombs don't work, I don't call that a manufacturer error , I call that being brainwashed to the point of accepting to use a weapoon knowing that it is CERTAInLY AND WITHOUT A DOUBT going to harm innocents (KIDS for GOD's sake) during decades. If you have no problem with that, than there is nothing to add as you said

 

[HannibalBarka]

You completely fail to understand what we're talking about (well, what I am talking about). Not that it was uncommon.
Chinese accepted modernity (which was invented by the West), but it still stick up with its cultural traditions. In other words, it seeks modernity without becoming Western.
Islamic society doesn't want modernity, because modernity is against its very principles. That's why they are and why they'll remain backwards.

You said

Deng Xiaoping introduced market economy into China because Chinese realized, that their cultural traditions are inferior and their society cannot compete with the West and others

And now you say

China still stick up with its cultural traditions

No wonder I don't understand what you are saying

 

[HannibalBarka]

Learn to read, people, and please, stop jumping to conclusions because you're unable to understand simple sentences.

Yeah well I think you should learn to write. You were talking about the chinese and indeed it is a 5000 years old civilization

 

[Sh3kel]

When 40% of the bombs don't work, I don't call that a manufacturer error , I call that being brainwashed to the point of accepting to use a weapoon knowing that it is CERTAInLY AND WITHOUT A DOUBT going to harm innocents (KIDS for GOD's sake) during decades. If you have no problem with that, than there is nothing to add as you said

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cluster_bombs#Civilian_deaths_from_unexploded_cluster_bomblets

# In Lebanon as many as 70% of the bomblets dropped may not have detonated. 16 have been killed and 100 civilians were injured by unexploded bomblets since the August 14, 2006 ceasefire in the 2006 Israeli-Lebanon conflict. Unofficial reports indicate that the US State Department is inquiring into whether Israeli use of US-made cluster bombs during the conflict conformed with the terms of agreements between them as to the conditions of the munition's use. It is confirmed that Hezbollah also used clusters. Israel has expressed readiness to cooperate. In August 2006, the UN's Mine Action Coordination Center in Tyre, Lebanon, raised an alarm over the post-conflict impact on returning civilians of unexploded cluster bombs used by Israel in village areas. Israel immediately after the cease-fire gave UNIFIL maps indicating the likely locations of unexploded ordnance, to aid the international attempt to clear these areas and avoid injury to the population. Furthermore, immediately after the cease-fire it distributed warning notices to the residents in the areas of warfare, and recommended that they wait a few days before returning to the south until the UNIFIL forces were deployed there and the area had been cleared of unexploded ordnance.
# In the 2006 Israeli-Lebanon conflict, Human Rights Watch condemned Hezbullah for using cluster bombs on an estimated 113 occasions during the war, many of which failed to explode. These were specifically targeted at Israeli civilian populations.

Certainly, the mark of a sadistic nation full of child-killers, cooperating with the people who only recently fired upwards to 4,000 rockets into your own cities so as to decrease the risk of danger to the civilians of the enemy... we are definitively at least as horrible as the Hezzbollah, who actually took pride in firing rockets filled with pellets and metallic projectiles to cause as much damage as possible in areas of civilian concentration....

The unusually high percentage of non-detonating bomblets surprised everyone, to the point even the Americans are inquiring. There was a massive **** up in the ordnance supplied to us, and we had absolutely no reason to assume such a high dud-rate. Quit grasping at straws. There is absolutely no points of similarity in comparing the use of cluster bombs, which are in use in every major military in the world - including France - and suicide bombings.

 

[HannibalBarka]

So far Belgium is the only country to have issued a ban on the use (carrying), transportation, export, stockpiling, trade and production of cluster munitions.[11] However, several countries, including Austria, Australia, Denmark, France, Germany, Norway, Sweden and Switzerland have seen considerable parliamentary activity on cluster munitions. In some of these countries, there are ongoing discussions concerning draft legislation banning cluster munitions, along the lines of the legislation adopted in Belgium.


In Lebanon as many as 70% of the bomblets dropped may not have detonated [5]. 16 have been killed and 100 civilians were injured [6] by unexploded bomblets since the August 14, 2006 ceasefire in the 2006 Israeli-Lebanon conflict.

According to Handicap International, 98% of cluster bomb victims are civilians.

 

[HannibalBarka]

In the current conflict, Israel has already used artillery-fired cluster munitions against populated areas, causing civilian casualties. According to eyewitnesses and survivors of an attack interviewed by Human Rights Watch, Israel fired several artillery-based cluster munitions at the village of Blida around 3:00 p.m. on July 19. Three witnesses described how the artillery shells dropped hundreds of cluster submunitions on the village.
The attack killed 60-year-old Maryam Ibrahim inside her home. At least two submunitions entered the basement that the Ali family was using as a shelter, wounding 12 people, including seven children.

The New York Times quoted an Israeli embassy spokesman in Washington, David Siegel, as denying this use in Blida, but his summary denial is simply false.

 

[Sh3kel]

The New York Times quoted an Israeli embassy spokesman in Washington, David Siegel, as denying this use in Blida, but his summary denial is simply false.

On what basis do you determine the authenticity of the Israeli denial, and please address the points I made instead of rambling on about how cluster bombs are bad. No one is arguing that they're harmful, I'm simply stating the behaviour of the Israeli munitions is uncharachteristic to the ordnance type and also reaffirming my statement that we actually issued maps in order to faciliate their removal!

 

[HannibalBarka]

error, deleted

 

[Mott1]

A message to the pope and Christians from a sincere believer.
We are accustomed to hearing a Christian perspective on Islam, I thought it might be entertaining to hear a Muslim perspective on Christianity.
What do you Christians think, does he make a good case?

The Pope recently made some statements in public; amongst his words, he said,

“The best way forward is via authentic dialogue between Christians and Muslims, based on truth and inspired by a sincere wish to know one another better, respecting differences and recognizing what we have in common.”

Sorry Pope, no can do.

Firstly, since you said, “based on the truth” we take that as based on Islam since Christianity is false and has become a man-made religion through its changing of the Bible; and many Bible Scholars admit this. Most Muslims already know who you Christians are; you are a people that worship the wrong god, and many of you ascribe Prophet Jesus (‘alayhis salaam) as a son unto Allah – and Allah is free of all what you ascribe unto Him! Does God really need a son? How can God be the ‘All-Mighty’ and ‘All-Powerful’ when He needs a son? How can God be self-sufficient when He needs a son? And some of you will say, “But we don’t say God needs a son, we only say that He has a son…” – and this is a clear statement of your backwardness and ignorance. If God doesn’t need a son, then you need to become Muslim since we believe God doesn’t need anything but that everything and everyone needs Him Alone. What kind of religion is this where even your basic foundation of the faith is irrational?! We are not talking about a side issue or an issue for Scholarly debate or an issue of jurisprudence; we are talking about what your basic creed stands upon.

Your creed stands on nothing but false whims and desires; if God doesn’t need a son, then what’s the point of ascribing a son unto Him? And if you say, “Because God said so…” then what a backwards religion indeed when you say that God doesn’t need something but you still ascribe something to Him that He doesn’t need.

Islam is straightforward and simple Tawheed (monotheism; pure oneness of Allah); we ascribe no partners unto Allah, nor is there a middle-man between us and Allah since Allah is All-Knowing, All-Powerful, All-Encompassing, as well as ninety-six other names/attributes.

Secondly, you used the words, “authentic dialogue” - and there will never be an “authentic dialogue” until we, Muslims, have a Caliphate. It’ll most probably come from either Afghanistan or ‘Iraq since events are quickly unfolding in the favor of the Muslims and Islam. Also, you will never have a proper dialogue with Muslims who hate to talk about Jihad and al-Walaa wal Baraa (loving and hating for the sake of Allah).

Thirdly, we intend to establish a global Islamic Caliphate since this was the mission of Prophet Muhammad (sallallahu ‘alayhe wassallam). So respecting differences and all this fancy talk will not save you from paying Jizyah. All Praise and Thanks be to Allah that many Muslims are aware of your deception and cozying-up with the Muslims; if you want to be like us, why don’t you just tell us?

The Pope also said,



“I really wanted to come to Turkey because Turkey has become a bridge … between the religions.”

And on CNN, it was said,

“In his first official act, Benedict visited the tomb of Mustafa Kemal Ataturk, the founder of modern Turkey. In a guest book, he wrote that Turkey is ‘a meeting point of different religions and cultures and a bridge between Asia and Europe.’”

Turkey, unfortunately, is the most secular Muslim Country in the world today thanks to the chief of al-Murtadeen Mustafa Kemal Ataturk (may Allah curse him). So if Turkey was a proper Islamic Country by ruling the land with Shari’ah and making Jihad fe Sabeelillah by defending Muslim lands and conquering lands to expand the Islamic Empire, then you wouldn’t say such things. In fact, you would be too scared to give us a visit in Turkey and even have Turkish coffee with us in the Blue Masjid!

So don’t try to fool with us Muslims that Turkey is a good Country and a good place to hold these vain dialogues. You enemy of Allah, you only like Turkey because it isn’t Islamic and is far from being Islamic. This is the type of Islam that you like and would rather live with instead of the Islam that was sent down from Allah to Prophet Muhammad (sallallahu ‘alayhe wassallam).

Finally, the Pope said,

“Our world must come to realize that all people are linked by profound solidarity with one another, and they must be encouraged to assert their historical and cultural differences not for the sake of confrontation, but in order to foster mutual respect.”

Why are you telling us that, O Crusader? Why don’t you condemn and criticize your own people first for their bloody history against the Muslims? We, as Muslims, declare our loyalty to that which Allah loves; and He loves for us to practice Islam in its totality and to love that which He loves. Similarly, as Muslims, we declare our hatred for that which Allah hates and this includes all Religions and Governments except Islam.

http://inshallahshaheed.wordpress.com/

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

If this guy would have posted that here I guess he'd face some oposition to his position

As a starter:

Firstly, since you said, “based on the truth” we take that as based on Islam since Christianity is false and has become a man-made religion through its changing of the Bible; and many Bible Scholars admit this.

This is a high ground which is undefendable.

But for the same reasons I don't consider CivGeneral, mobBoss, PugLover, and others (named the first three names that popped in my head, no offense intended) to be spokespersons for christianity, I do not consider this feller to be a spokesperson for Islam.

edit: And anyone who does is smokescreening.

 

[HannibalBarka]

Bravo Mott1, now google KKK and Kahana

 

[Mott1]

Bravo Mott1, now google KKK and Kahana

why would I want to do that?

 

[Atlas14]

why would I want to do that?

You do know that you were only pointing out people expressing a violent perspective towards Christianity don't you?

 

[HannibalBarka]

On what basis do you determine the authenticity of the Israeli denial,

HRW

and please address the points I made instead of rambling on about how cluster bombs are bad. No one is arguing that they're harmful, I'm simply stating the behaviour of the Israeli munitions is uncharachteristic to the ordnance type and also reaffirming my statement that we actually issued maps in order to faciliate their removal!

Because It doesn't change any thing, it's just PR. If the Israeli were serious about that, they will pay for the removal and pays reparations to the current and future civilian victims. If Hezbollah send maps in order to faciliate the removal of the cluster bombs it sent on Israel, are you gonna consider them to be nice guys ?

 

[Mott1]

You do know that you were only pointing out people expressing a violent perspective towards Christianity don't you?

I certainly hope its a person. I agree, his dispositon is consistant with violence and intolerance. However this person is a Muslim, therefor it is a Muslim perspective.

 

[REDY]

Gods, still the same irrelevant arguments.

I don't care, really, I don't if Muslims were relatively more peaceful than Christians deep in the Middle Ages.

Islamic societies have been stagnant for centuries. Now, they're desperately fighting against the more advanced civilizations and because they're so backwards, the only thing they can use that can hurt us is terrorism.

Instead of reforming themselves (like Chinese and Indians did), they stick to the same traditions that got them into this mess.

I am happy that you changed your opinion on linking Islam and terrorism and started to search social influences. I dont care if its because irrelevant arguments

 

[Atlas14]

I certainly hope its a person. I agree, his dispositon is consistant with violence and intolerance. However this person is a Muslim, therefor it is a Muslim perspective.

That does not mean Islam is inherently violent Whenever I hear Christians say we should put all homosexuals on an island and nuke them, I sort of shrug it off and tell myself they are ignorant morons. When I see Muslims expressing violent words against Chrisitanity, I do the same thing.

 

[Revolutionary]

Learn to read, people, and please, stop jumping to conclusions because you're unable to understand simple sentences.

Islamic culture was created in 7th and 8th century. So no 5000+ years of culture. Since then, Islamic societies have stangated. Only because the speed of scientific advancement was low during the Middle Ages, they were able to conquer much of the World. But once the West entered industrial era, their stagnation became obvious.

Now I said, that countries like Japan, China and India managed to reform, learn how to do things from the West, but retain their cultural traditions. Islamic societies didn't. After the short experiment with socialism and nationalism, they're reverting to the old good islamic fundamentalism in false hope it will save them. It won't, it will just keep them poor and backwards.

What they need is to profoundly reform their way of life, because their culture is an obstacle.

oh come now I can read just fine, you claimed China's cultural traditions were inferior to the west...

see:

Deng Xiaoping's (I hope this is the correct English spelling, in Czech, it is completely different and I am sure neither has anything in common with the real Chinese name of that guy ) reforms that introduced market economy into China.

I don't know, maybe because they realized, that their cultural traditions are inferior and their society cannot compete with the West and others.

you were not talking about the Islamic world as you yourself stated they failed to reform and in your last comment you claimed "they" (China) reformed because they realized "that their cultural traditions are inferior"

how is that jumping to conclusions?

see how easily ad hominem attacks can backfire...

and do tell us what cultural traditions have to do with technological, economic, and industrial reform?

 

[Winner]

Yeah well I think you should learn to write. You were talking about the chinese and indeed it is a 5000 years old civilization

Sure, you know better what I meant

So again, for the dumb ones, I talked about Islamic cultural tradition, which is inferior and unable to cope with modern world.