High Priest admits church of science is a hoax

[Borachio]

Isn't that the point about quantum mechanics, though? That some effects are so small that the act of observing them - which must remove at least one quantum - affects the result?

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Isn't that the point about quantum mechanics, though? That some effects are so small that the act of observing them - which must remove at least one quantum - affects the result?

Which is what brings quantum physics full circle and back to "well, it is all just beyond our understanding". As soon as the observer becomes inextricably linked with the results the entire 'repeatable experimentally' underpinnings of science go straight down the road to perdition.

 

[Borachio]

Link to video.

 

[warpus]

As soon as the observer becomes inextricably linked with the results the entire 'repeatable experimentally' underpinnings of science go straight down the road to perdition.

Welll, technically speaking the observer is always involved in the experiment, as much as it'd be ideal for him/her to be fully removed from the equation.

We can still do science with quantum physics. There's nothing inherently non-scientificable about it (I invented that word, but let's go with it)

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Welll, technically speaking the observer is always involved in the experiment, as much as it'd be ideal for him/her to be fully removed from the equation.

We can still do science with quantum physics. There's nothing inherently non-scientificable about it (I invented that word, but let's go with it)

Inventing words is entirely scientificable, because words can be repeated.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

@Timsup2nothin: Yes, it's obvious that the article is a spoof. But I got tired of your persistent need to keep posting "science faithful" and other phrases that insist that science is a religion, when you have been told repeatedly that it is not.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

@Timsup2nothin: Yes, it's obvious that the article is a spoof. But I got tired of your persistent need to keep posting "science faithful" and other phrases that insist that science is a religion, when you have been told repeatedly that it is not.

Gee. Maybe if a genuine higher authority told me it was not, or someone presented a rational argument, it would make a difference.

 

[El_Machinae]

Which is what brings quantum physics full circle and back to "well, it is all just beyond our understanding". As soon as the observer becomes inextricably linked with the results the entire 'repeatable experimentally' underpinnings of science go straight down the road to perdition.

Only kinda. Most scientific laws are better understood as 'rules of thumb'. They just get fancy math in them. So, they become phrased "if you do x, you'll get a y result"

Underlying the laws are the maths that allow us to do the predictions, but also the theory which is how we try to envision why things are working the way they are.

But, there are many times in which an experiment cannot be strictly reproduced. They can only be reproduced by you taking something similar and doing something similar to see if the results match.

For example, I cooked a delicious egg this morning. I can give you instructions on how you can do it. But, there's no way you can repeat my exact experiment. You need to get your own egg and do your own cooking.

But, if we're correct about 'eggs' being similar, we can then generate rules-of-thumb based on how our results (when combined) give similar outcomes. Then we can create the scientific laws of egg-cooking.

 

[warpus]

But also, you don't need to be able to always reproduce the exact phenomena to learn something about it. Sometimes all you've got is evidence that's been left behind in other, indirect forms. That's why we can figure out things like planetary formation without actually having to actually build a planet. Although it'd help if we had the means to try.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

Gee. Maybe if a genuine higher authority told me it was not, or someone presented a rational argument, it would make a difference.

You have been presented with rational arguments.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

You have been presented with rational arguments.

Perhaps that smaller subset, convincing arguments, might be in order. Mostly what I've gotten is displays of pique that certainly do more to support my position than oppose it, given how similar they are to the response one gets from 'offending' any other faithful followers.

If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck and has a string of ducklings following along, there is a high probability that what is being examined is a duck.

 

[Tigranes]

The truth from a guy who say he was lying about his work from a long time? And you believe him? HAHAHAHA

 

[El_Machinae]

I'm a bit lost as to where this thread was supposed to go.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

I'm a bit lost as to where this thread was supposed to go.

It was a joke...laugh if you will, ignore if you won't...or follow the offended science believers as they verify that certain experimental results are indeed reproducible.

Those are options, but probably not all that are available.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

Perhaps that smaller subset, convincing arguments, might be in order. Mostly what I've gotten is displays of pique that certainly do more to support my position than oppose it, given how similar they are to the response one gets from 'offending' any other faithful followers.

If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck and has a string of ducklings following along, there is a high probability that what is being examined is a duck.

Yeah, I simply must post pictures of my shrine to Carl Sagan and my statues of Galileo and other scientists. Do you know where I can find some pews for my science church? I'd love to set one up and get in on the sweet deals that churches here get where they pay no property tax. I could sure use the money that people are socially pressured to drop into the collection baskets - no different, really, from the offerings people made millennia ago to the priests of the temples in Rome, the Greek city-states, and to the priest of Amon in Egypt. Apparently the gods need all this money, food, jewelry, and other trinkets. At least in Star Trek V, someone was finally smart enough to ask why God needs a starship.

It was a joke...laugh if you will, ignore if you won't...or follow the offended science believers as they verify that certain experimental results are indeed reproducible.

Those are options, but probably not all that are available.

Taking this to PM.

 

[FriendlyFire]

I rather scientists NOT create a black hole on earth thank you very much.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Yeah, I simply must post pictures of my shrine to Carl Sagan and my statues of Galileo and other scientists. Do you know where I can find some pews for my science church? I'd love to set one up and get in on the sweet deals that churches here get where they pay no property tax. I could sure use the money that people are socially pressured to drop into the collection baskets - no different, really, from the offerings people made millennia ago to the priests of the temples in Rome, the Greek city-states, and to the priest of Amon in Egypt. Apparently the gods need all this money, food, jewelry, and other trinkets. At least in Star Trek V, someone was finally smart enough to ask why God needs a starship.

More like tax money going to science grants, if you want to talk parallels.

 

[CavLancer]

The act of observation effecting the outcome has one new little twist that has the people who think they know a lot more than stone age guys really twisting in the wind.

They set up the double slit experiment but only observed one slit. The electrons which did not go through that slit and went through the one they were not being observed still formed a wave pattern. The little buggers now know when you are trying to catch them with their pants down.

Explain that without using complete ********.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

The act of observation effecting the outcome has one new little twist that has the people who think they know a lot more than stone age guys really twisting in the wind.

They set up the double slit experiment but only observed one slit. The electrons which did not go through that slit and went through the one they were not being observed still formed a wave pattern. The little buggers now know when you are trying to catch them with their pants down.

Explain that without using complete ********.

Yeah, that was an interesting turn of events. developing sufficient instrumentation to observe something seems to affect it just as much as actually observing it...which has to make one wonder if it is a matter of just 'finding what you seek'. I develop instruments to detect things this small, and voila, I find things this small...

If I took physics as some immutable truth I would be extremely disconcerted.

 

[classical_hero]

We understand very little about the universe - but a lot more than prehistoric man did.

That is generally the same for most generations. As Sir Isaac newton said, "If I have seen further, it is because I stand on the shoulders of giants."