History Rewritten (Original Thread)

[Xyth]

Attached a diagram of how the techtree is looking at the moment in 0.9.1. Green = new techs, Yellow = moved techs. Each release of 0.9.x I'm aiming to expand it a little further.

 

[Howard Mahler]

Looks interesting.

Like the fact that caravel is earlier.

Like the fact that Library, School, and Observatory are spread out.

As I have mentioned, the costs need to be lower earlier in the game (at least on a huge map.) I think having the base costs in an arithmetic progression works worse than would a geometric progression. Early techs costing less than in version 0.9, middle techs costing about the same, and late techs costing more.

As it is, unless one is lucky enough to get a very good starting position or have a lot of early international trade, things are very slow.

Attached a diagram of how the techtree is looking at the moment in 0.9.1. Green = new techs, Yellow = moved techs. Each release of 0.9.x I'm aiming to expand it a little further.

 

[davidtylr]

I don't know wether you know this but if you go into the world builder in the later game it crash. This doesn't happen when your in the ancient and classical eras but when you go into the world builder in the industrial era it crashes. it done it twice. Yes I do get tempted to cheat

I had a look at the new tech and I like how astronomy is earlier. People have been mapping out stars since the year dot.

 

[Xyth]

As I have mentioned, the costs need to be lower earlier in the game (at least on a huge map.) I think having the base costs in an arithmetic progression works worse than would a geometric progression. Early techs costing less than in version 0.9, middle techs costing about the same, and late techs costing more.

As it is, unless one is lucky enough to get a very good starting position or have a lot of early international trade, things are very slow.

Changes I'm making to the early game to help with commerce (and thus research) starvation:

• Cottages available with Property (formerly Employment)
• Redistribution redesigned: now gives +1 happiness for Granary, +1 commerce for Camp and Mine
• Caravel available much earlier
• Earlier extra trade route: now requires Redistribution (formerly Currency)

I'll see how these go and if there are still issues I'll adjust the tech costs for 0.9.2.

I don't know wether you know this but if you go into the world builder in the later game it crash. This doesn't happen when your in the ancient and classical eras but when you go into the world builder in the industrial era it crashes. it done it twice. Yes I do get tempted to cheat

Can you let me know which civilizations are in game when this happens? If Poland is one of them make sure you grab the fix from here.

I had a look at the new tech and I like how astronomy is earlier. People have been mapping out stars since the year dot.

I've always felt Astronomy should be an ancient tech too. Fits much better and it simultaneously solved the issue of what to give Physics and how to make the Caravel earlier. A very happy modding moment that was!

(BTW: Nazca Lines probably won't be in 0.9.1 but I want to put them in eventually)

 

[davidtylr]

Thank you I'll tell you if it happens again.

 

[Howard Mahler]

I do not seem to have the Civ4WorldInfo.xml file in Version 0.9.
I can not open the CIV4HandicapInfo.xml file in Version 0.9.

(I can find and open them for BTS.)

Not a problem.
Just want you to check that these files are present and doing what they are supposed to be doing in your original version of your Mod.

"You can also change the research rate for mapsize (in GameInfo/Civ4WorldInfo.xml) or for difficulty level (in GameInfo/CIV4HandicapInfo.xml). The way tech costs are calculated is pretty complicated, this post has all the details."

 

[Xyth]

I do not seem to have the Civ4WorldInfo.xml file in Version 0.9.
I can not open the CIV4HandicapInfo.xml file in Version 0.9.

Ah yeah, I forgot that I didn't include Civ4WorldInfo.xml in 0.9 as I hadn't made any changes to it yet (if a mod doesn't include a certain file the default BTS is used instead). Civ4HandicapInfo.xml is definitely there though but I'm puzzled that you cannot open it as it's just a standard xml file like all the others. What message are you getting when you try?

Btw, I think 0.9.1 is nearly ready to be uploaded, I just need to finish a few minor things on the new techs. It's only a small update but it should hopefully address all the major issues that arose in 0.9:



Version 0.9.1

Civics

• Redistribution: redesigned with a more appropriate economic focus

Technology

• Redesign of techtree now extends further into the Industrial Era
• Tech costs do not ramp up as quickly in the ancient era
• Tech costs do not scale as steeply with mapsize
• Added Ancient Techs: Copper Working, Hunting, Mining, Astronomy
• Added Classical Techs: Aesthetics, Navigation
• Added Medieval Techs: Cultivation, Evangelism, Hydraulics, Siegecraft
• Added Renaissance Techs: Ballistics, Humanism, Military Conduct
• Added Industrial Tech: Refining
• Several civics, buildings, units, etc have changed tech requirements

Religion

• Great Prophets now require just one Great Temple (in the Holy City) to build the Shrine

Miscellaneous

• The ancient era should no longer be so starved for commerce
• Fixed a crash when Poland reaches the Renaissance era
• Fixed an error where it was possible to build two Military Academies
• Should be noticeably less MAFs (at the price of slightly slower loading speed)

 

[Howard Mahler]

Adobe Reader could not open 'CIV4HandicapInfo.xml' because it is either not a supported file type or because the file has been damaged (for example, it was sent as an email attachment and wasn't correctly decoded).


"Civ4HandicapInfo.xml is definitely there though but I'm puzzled that you cannot open it as it's just a standard xml file like all the others. What message are you getting when you try?"

 

[Xyth]

Adobe Reader could not open 'CIV4HandicapInfo.xml' because it is either not a supported file type or because the file has been damaged (for example, it was sent as an email attachment and wasn't correctly decoded).

XML files are just text files and can be opened with TextEdit or similar. I personally use and recommend TextWrangler. If a simple text editor won't open it then it's possible it's corrupt for some reason but I doubt this as the mod would be throwing errors on launch if it couldn't read that file.

As for Adobe Reader, I have no idea why it would be having an issue with it; I avoid the Adobe bloatware like the plague.

 

[Xyth]

0.9.1 is now available.

 

[Hydraliskciv]

Sorry I haven't been on in nearly forever :3
But, I did take a look at the tech tree. . .
. . .I liked everything except Dogma as a tech 0-o.
I suggest you replace the name with something else.
Dogma just sounds a bit odd.


Besides that, you are doing excellent work

 

[Howard Mahler]

New Version 0.9.1 looks very interesting.

First minor potential problem.

Monument (obelisk) is available with Ritual and is obsolete with Astronomy.
This is way too short!

(Bummer since I just started a game with Egypt, random choice.)

I think that you need to have Monuments go obsolete with a later tech, for example Philosophy.

 

[Xyth]

. . .I liked everything except Dogma as a tech 0-o.
I suggest you replace the name with something else.
Dogma just sounds a bit odd.

Hmm, what is odd about it to you?

"Dogma is the established belief or doctrine held by a religion, or by extension by some other group or organization. It is authoritative and not to be disputed, doubted, or diverged from, by the practitioner or believers." - Wikipedia

"A principle or set of principles laid down by an authority as incontrovertibly true" - O.E.D.

It's also a word that's not specific to any particular religion and in my opinion describes very well what I wanted that particular tech to be. The development of dogma was a very important aspect of ancient/medieval religion - it's what helped many religions become larger than the culture they originated in and to influence international politics.

I could use a term like "Religious Law" but that just seems too vague and limited in comparison. I'm open to suggestions though.

Monument (obelisk) is available with Ritual and is obsolete with Astronomy.
This is way too short!

I changed the Monument (and Stonehenge) to obsolete with Education but it seems I neglected to change this for the monument-replacing UBs of some civs. This affects Egypt, Ethiopia, Hatti, and the Sioux. Looks like I did change it for the Swahili's Ziara though.

 

[Hydraliskciv]

Ahhhhhh
That makes more sense.
I thought dogma meant something else :/.

 

[Jarlaxe Baenre]

I came back to BtS, and downloaded the newest version of HR. A couple issues:

-90% of the times I start a new game, the game crashes. Loading a game works, though.

-Going down the sailing tree from the start is a waste of time unless you have a lot of seafood in your starting city's BFC.

 

[Xyth]

I came back to BtS, and downloaded the newest version of HR. A couple issues:

Welcome back. What did you think of Civ5?

-90% of the times I start a new game, the game crashes. Loading a game works, though.

That shouldn't be happening. Does it happen on all mapsizes or just the larger ones?

-Going down the sailing tree from the start is a waste of time unless you have a lot of seafood in your starting city's BFC.

Somewhat intended. This branch will not be useful on all maps, though the Lighthouse and Harbour are still very valuable buildings for coastal cities. However, most later naval units and such require Shipbuilding or Navigation to build so these techs can't be ignored completely.

 

[Jarlaxe Baenre]

Welcome back. What did you think of Civ5?



That shouldn't be happening. Does it happen on all mapsizes or just the larger ones?



Somewhat intended. This branch will not be useful on all maps, though the Lighthouse and Harbour are still very valuable buildings for coastal cities. However, most later naval units and such require Shipbuilding or Navigation to build so these techs can't be ignored completely.

1: I didn't play Civ5. I played Cod4 and Minecraft.

2: 90x90 Europe.

3: But perhaps you could make them useful for maps with less water?

 

[Xyth]

2: 90x90 Europe.

That map loads fine for me. Which civ(s) are you trying to play on it? Also, could you please post the crash log for me. I assume from your description that it crashes after the generating the map but before your first turn?

3: But perhaps you could make them useful for maps with less water?

Well Fishing lets you work water tiles and Sailing allows trading along rivers and coast. These are still pretty useful even on maps with little water. The advantage is that you don't need to pick these techs up until they are useful to you, maybe once you've expanded to the coast. Water related techs/buildings/units are always going to vary in usefulness depending on the type of map and I didn't want to penalize an inland civ by forcing them to take a number of techs that are of little use to them just to reach ones that are. I've taken a similar (though much smaller scale) approach with Riding: a civ that has no access to horses or elephants isn't forced to research it until they do.

 

[Jarlaxe Baenre]

That map loads fine for me. Which civ(s) are you trying to play on it? Also, could you please post the crash log for me. I assume from your description that it crashes after the generating the map but before your first turn?



Well Fishing lets you work water tiles and Sailing allows trading along rivers and coast. These are still pretty useful even on maps with little water. The advantage is that you don't need to pick these techs up until they are useful to you, maybe once you've expanded to the coast. Water related techs/buildings/units are always going to vary in usefulness depending on the type of map and I didn't want to penalize an inland civ by forcing them to take a number of techs that are of little use to them just to reach ones that are. I've taken a similar (though much smaller scale) approach with Riding: a civ that has no access to horses or elephants isn't forced to research it until they do.

1: Alexander of Greece, only one I've tried since I got back into BtS.. I'll generate another crash log next time I start BtS.

 

[Xyth]

I'm away visiting family til the 4th of April. Not sure if I'll have internet access or not where I'm going so if you get a response from me over the next few days that's why