History Rewritten (Original Thread)

[Howard Mahler]

I am not sure I noticed the difference.
In the game I am currently playing as Herod, I got attacked by the Incas and wiped them out. Thus I am currently suffering from the large number of cities I need to absorb. This is to be expected, but makes it hard to judge whether the slow down in research is due to the tech tree or my particular current situation.

Thanks for those. Which tech speed do you prefer so far (with or without Civ4WorldInfo.xml)?

 

[Xyth]

Here's a somewhat unfinished preview of the techtree for 0.9.2. Still some sorting and a lot of testing to be done. Green techs are new, yellow techs are moved/renamed. The late modern era is a bit more compressed than I ultimately intend but I'll address that in a later version. Let me know what you think.

(I zipped the diagram as it's too wide to display legibly on this site)

 

[gurocat]

I have modular loading enabled in my documents and in the mod itself.

 

[Xyth]

Gurocat (and anyone playing the mod on Windows), please download and unzip the attached file. The resulting file, Civ4TechInfos.xml, needs to replace the existing one in /History Rewritten/Assets/XML/Technologies/. That should fix that error, sorry about that! Please let me know if any other error messages are being thrown on the Windows version and I'll get them fixed asap.

 

[Howard Mahler]

I am not sure what you have done here, but apparently they go to an unconverted city and convert it automatically.

It seems that when there is no unconverted city on the same landmass, they just sit there. You have to remember to select them in order to move them. Otherwise they sit forever in the city where they were built until you notice they are there.
A big pain in the ass.

I think I prefer the way it was in BTS.

 

[Howard Mahler]

It appears that you need one great temple in the Holy City itself.
If this is indeed the case, I suggest that you make this clearer in the civilopedia entries.

 

[Howard Mahler]

I like the change that Camps can be built in forest, and give +1 food.
With Redistribution giving +1 coins for camps (and mines) that makes Camps very worthwhile in the early and middle game.
When they become available, lumbermills and windmills can not really compete with camps. They get better later on, but it would be better if there was a way for them to compete, particularly lumbermills, a little earlier.
Perhaps some tech or civic could somehow boost lumbermills earlier and in addition to railroads.
(Obviously, one needs to be careful to keep everything balanced and fun.)

 

[Howard Mahler]

Interesting.

Some initial comments:
Patronage could be strengthened, perhaps +1 culture per specialist.
Geology: name change from Alchemy presumably lets you put Alchemy into the tree earlier (at some later date.) Maybe +1 hammer per quarry
Welfare: Maybe rename Social Welfare. Need something for this to do or enable.
Public parks, public hospitals, public libraries, etc. might go here, but do not really see how these fits into the current game. Perhaps some sort of new National Wonder or Project would work. National project such as Social Security might give +1 health and +1 happiness in every city.
Film: maybe rename moving pictures, cinema, or movies.
Pharmaceuticals: Need something for this to do or enable. Perhaps +1 health in all cities or +1 health per hospital, or allows building of drugstores.
Contraception: Really does not go with emancipation. May be better to have a separate tech named emancipation. For contraception maybe +1 hammer and/or +1 coin and/or +1 specialist per city while somehow slowing the growth of cities.
Total War: Need something for this to do or enable. Perhaps allows National Monument or gives a small boost to military production or gives +1 experience to military units being built or gives a small bonus versus war weariness.
Nutrition: Need something for this to do or enable. Perhaps +1 health in all cities or +1 health to supermarket.
Genetics: Need something for this to do or enable. Perhaps genetic modified crops give +1 food to farms, winery, and plantations. However, the green revolution boosting the yields from rice, wheat, etc. really predated modern genetic engineering.
Certainly possible to have both Genetics and then Genetic Engineering as separate techs.
Biofuels: Need something for this to do or enable. Maybe reduces the unhealthiness from fossil fuels.

Some of us play without the space race victory. (I got tired of it many years ago, probably during CIV 2.) In the future, it would be good if you could find useful things for the last techs to do in addition to helping build the spaceship.

Here's a somewhat unfinished preview of the techtree for 0.9.2. Still some sorting and a lot of testing to be done. Green techs are new, yellow techs are moved/renamed. The late modern era is a bit more compressed than I ultimately intend but I'll address that in a later version. Let me know what you think.

(I zipped the diagram as it's too wide to display legibly on this site)

 

[Howard Mahler]

FYI, an interesting chart of world wonders by civilization version.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=419687

 

[Howard Mahler]

High Speed Rail or Maglev Trains is another possible Tech.
Building them would give workers something to do near the end of the game.

 

[Xyth]

I am not sure what you have done here, but apparently they go to an unconverted city and convert it automatically.

It seems that when there is no unconverted city on the same landmass, they just sit there. You have to remember to select them in order to move them. Otherwise they sit forever in the city where they were built until you notice they are there.

That's probably related to the Spiritual trait giving missionaries the medic promotion. I haven't noticed it before but looking over the changes I made way back I can see how they might have some unintended effects. I've never been particularly happy with this component of the trait so I'll look at removing it and finding something better.

It appears that you need one great temple in the Holy City itself.
If this is indeed the case, I suggest that you make this clearer in the civilopedia entries.

That's intended, it replaces the need to have X great temples civilization wide. I'll adjust the pedia entries to be more clear.

I like the change that Camps can be built in forest, and give +1 food.
With Redistribution giving +1 coins for camps (and mines) that makes Camps very worthwhile in the early and middle game.
When they become available, lumbermills and windmills can not really compete with camps. They get better later on, but it would be better if there was a way for them to compete, particularly lumbermills, a little earlier.
Perhaps some tech or civic could somehow boost lumbermills earlier and in addition to railroads.
(Obviously, one needs to be careful to keep everything balanced and fun.)

Glad you're liking the camps change. I implemented it to reduce deforestation in the early game as there really wasn't any viable alternate to chopping. I'll take a look at what can be done about the mills.

Interesting.

Some initial comments:

I intend for every tech to unlock something or give some benefit, the ones that are currently blank in that diagram just haven't had anything assigned to them yet. I probably won't get to all of them in 0.9.2 but it will be a major priority for 0.9.3.

Contraception: Really does not go with emancipation. May be better to have a separate tech named emancipation. For contraception maybe +1 hammer and/or +1 coin and/or +1 specialist per city while somehow slowing the growth of cities.

Yeah I put Emancipation there temporarily and forgot to reassign it. It's proving a tricky civic to place. Civil Rights is probably the best candidate, or maybe Welfare with some rejuggling. Note that I'm using 'emancipation' in the broader sense of it's meaning rather than just about ending slavery.

Genetics: Need something for this to do or enable. Perhaps genetic modified crops give +1 food to farms, winery, and plantations. However, the green revolution boosting the yields from rice, wheat, etc. really predated modern genetic engineering.

Yep, and that's what the Nutrition tech will eventually represent, the combination of science and environmentalism improving food supply/consumption.

Welfare: Maybe rename Social Welfare. Need something for this to do or enable.

Pharmaceuticals: Need something for this to do or enable. Perhaps +1 health in all cities or +1 health per hospital, or allows building of drugstores.

Certainly possible to have both Genetics and then Genetic Engineering as separate techs.

There are several techs along the bottom row of the tree that may be shuffled and swapped a bit when I get a clearer idea of what will work best for gameplay. Genetics vs Genetic Engineering is certainly a possibility as is an Evolution tech.

Most of these techs are health related (directly or indirectly) and I suspect I need to find ways to make health more beneficial (and/or unhealthiness more punitive) before developing this part of the tree too much further. I quite like the concept of pandemics that some other mods have, hopefully I can implement something similar in HR. That won't be in 0.9.2 though.

Some of us play without the space race victory. (I got tired of it many years ago, probably during CIV 2.) In the future, it would be good if you could find useful things for the last techs to do in addition to helping build the spaceship.

Agreed. I want to avoid getting too sci-fi but having some more 'near future' buildings/wonders/units would be fun.

 

[davidtylr]

I would like to see more resources pop up in the later game like rubber, Plastics, Bee hives, or stuff for modern day medicines that increase health in the cities.

 

[gurocat]

Gurocat (and anyone playing the mod on Windows), please download and unzip the attached file. The resulting file, Civ4TechInfos.xml, needs to replace the existing one in /History Rewritten/Assets/XML/Technologies/. That should fix that error, sorry about that! Please let me know if any other error messages are being thrown on the Windows version and I'll get them fixed asap.

That worked. An interesting mod, I like a lot of what you have done. Not convinced about the tech tree (tech mesh?), but I know how hard it is to make such a thing from scratch.

 

[Howard Mahler]

I am not sure I like the idea of a pandemic in the game; I guess I would have to see the details.

I mentioned a way to make unhealthiness more important a month or two ago.

If there are enough new ways to gain health, as well as some new ways to increase food production, then you could implement this increase in the effects of unhealthiness, as well as a somewhat greater than linear increase in the unhealthiness due to population increase.

For example, certain population sizes such as 10, 15, 19, 22, 24, 25, 26, 27, etc. could each trigger an additional unhealthiness each. So for example a city of size 20 would have 3 more unhealthiness than currently. These numbers were plucked out of thin air. Game testing would be needed to see what works.

 

[Howard Mahler]

The revised tech tree is still under construction and if you play the current version you are really in gametesting mode. I find that up through what has been completed, for example up to Labour Unions, it works pretty well and is very interesting.

That worked. An interesting mod, I like a lot of what you have done. Not convinced about the tech tree (tech mesh?), but I know how hard it is to make such a thing from scratch.

 

[Howard Mahler]

Some more saves from my game as Herod, Version 9.0.1.

 

[Xyth]

Update on 0.9.2:

I think what I will do is release 0.9.2 as soon as possible and limit its scope to just the tech tree changes (and bugfixes of course). This will mean that there will some techs that do not unlock very much (or anything) initially but I intend to address this thoroughly in 0.9.3 with new buildings/wonders/etc. Currently in 0.9.1 the post-Renaissance eras don't mesh well with the rest (especially in terms of tech costs) and I think it's important to address this before I get bogged down with all the new stuff.

 

[Hib]

First I want to thank you for this great mod. It is really fun to play.

Then I have some ideas about founding religions:

1. Instead of being forced to found a religion when a great prophet is born, you could make the founding an action which consumes him.

2. You could add tech requirement for founding religions, like ceremonial burial for Pesedjet.

EDIT: Could you please add a primitive way to convert hammers into gold, research and/or espionage.
In my current game I have to crank out units although I'm not at war because I've nothing else to produce.

 

[Xyth]

1. Instead of being forced to found a religion when a great prophet is born, you could make the founding an action which consumes him.

That's how I would have preferred to implement it but unfortunately there were some severe technical challenges I wasn't able to overcome.

2. You could add tech requirement for founding religions, like ceremonial burial for Pesedjet.

This would require an awful lot of rebalancing for very little benefit. Indeed, it's why I wanted to disconnect religions from the tech tree in the first place.

Could you please add a primitive way to convert hammers into gold, research and/or espionage.
In my current game I have to crank out units although I'm not at war because I've nothing else to produce.

What difficulty level are you playing and at what stage of tech progression are you running out of things to build?

 

[Hib]

I'm playing with the Incans at Nobleman difficulty at normal speed and I'm now in the classical era.
Especially in the middle to late antique era I had this problem.