HNDY08 - AWDG Babylon - Small Pangaea

[Northern Pike]

Here's a sitemap for our central lands, though it'll be some time before we have this many settlers for use behind the lines.

Edit: I don't mean to suggest that these towns should be settled in numerical order. 3-1-4-2 might be best.

 

[T_McC]

Yeah, I'm not dead.

@NP - You can't pop-rush more than 1/2 of a cities citizens. A city must be size 4 before you can throw a couple of bodies into a foundation.

This one is already over. One rival gone, another surely crippled, and apparently nobody else with Iron. You won't see a viable AI unit until Cavs, and none of them will make it that far because you already have 3 armies to pillage with. Easy pre-Industrial win.

Why not tack on some more variants? All Infantry, Despotic, Never Leave the Ancient Age ...

It's good to see I was dragging you guys down.

 

[Greebley]

Good turns NP and excellent kill ratio.

We have discovered that armies are not safe in cities. I have seen a case where a healthy modern armor army was attacked by a warrior. Something to watch for. You can have a Cav army that has bee waltzing through enemy territory unmolested end its turn taking an enemy city, and all the Cavalry nearby suddenly turn on it and attack even if healthy. Enough cavalry and it is dead. This happened to me once in a solo game. The army had been pillaging and razing for turns before that. In that case capturing cost me the army.

I agree that this game is going well. It is amazing how much the start matters - more than difficulty level or whether pillaging is allowed.

I think map size is probably the second most important factor. Tiny and small maps are definitely easier than standard or larger. It is more than just the number of opponents, though that is a major part of it.

Handy is up I believe. Make sure Sumeria doesn't get that iron online - doesn't seem likely, but it would be bad if it happened. I agree with NP's assessment and dot map. Lets see if we can keep our momentum and continue to damage Egypt.

 

[Northern Pike]

@NP - You can't pop-rush more than 1/2 of a cities citizens. A city must be size 4 before you can throw a couple of bodies into a foundation.

Ah, OK. Thanks. A Conquests refinement, I suppose.

 

[Northern Pike]

Have you got it, Handy?

 

[Greebley]

Its been over 24 hours with no "I got it" - Handy is probably busy at the moment.

Bugs,
If you want to play today, go ahead and post an "I got it". You and Handy can swap places.

 

[handy900]

Sorry guys, left town and just got back. I got it.

Things look excellent.

It's good to see I was dragging you guys down.

You are welcome back anytime.

 

[Sir Bugsy]

Looks like I was too slow. Hopefully Handy can get it back up today.

 

[handy900]

Pentagon gets rushed and SoZ is no more.
We now have 2 armies with 4 swords each in search of Ur.

There is a nice city site N N NE of Ashur that would make a very nice core ring for us. Ashur would make a great palace site.

N Pike’s nicely done summary brings me up to date, and the cities look to be in fine order.

We sure do have a lot of empty cities in our homelands. I'll work on that.

I think I’ll drop the bowman army back for defense and push ahead with the swords.

IBT
Not much.
Damascus – sword – sword
Akkad – settler – cat
Uruk – cat – barracks

I turned off animation for our movement. Use CTRL P if you want it back on. I left it on for battles.

Turn 1
Move settle to spot #3 on N Pike’s map.
Build road with the workers under the sword army. Bow army heads home and the others sword army heals.
I’m leaving a sword in Ashur as homeland defense against an AI galley sea landing. We can defend multiple cities from Ashur.

IBT
Spot an Egyptian galley. We will have to watch these to make sure we can defend against the units they carry.
Lots of archers coming to Damascus.


Turn 2
Build a colony on the Gems

IBT
Egypt resettles the cow

Turn 3
Position to raze Heliopolis next turn.
Kill one archer and the bowman army takes out an Acav trying to steal our gems.

IBT
HBR – Currency
Ashur – sword – horse

Turn 4 270
Geez, Heliopolis only had 1 spear, and it was a city with a lux.
Spot Memphis where the SoZ is. I think we’ll win faster if we just raze it do we can get over and bong the Sumerians
Currency is due in 8 turns. We are almost #1 in pop.

IBT
Ellipi – sword – sword
El Amarna – cat – cat
Persia begins Sun Tzu
Egyptian galley dropped a lone archer N of Mecca. There is a sword there to deal with him.

Turn 5 250
Sword kills archer @ Mecca
Found Eulbar

IBT
Not much. We are going to capture a lot of workers @ Memphis.

Turn 6 230
Pop leader and will rush Pentagon in Damascus.
Raze Memphis and the SoZ.

IBT
Damascus – pentagon – sword

Turn 7 210
Sword armies are bringing 6 slaves back toward home and will each get a 4th sword. Then they will go on a raze campaign, never to see their homeland again. The bowman army added an elite* Bow and will escort the two swords to the rendezvous point.

IBT
Nineveh – sword – sword

Turn 8 190
Kill a couple of archers
Move armies and swords toward each other.

IBT
Mecca – granary – settler
Ashur horse – horse
Egypt starts knights Templar

Turn 9 170
Each sword army gets a fourth sword and moves off in search of core cities leaving the little corrupt ones behind for the bowman army to deal with.
I upgraded a vet warrior to a sword this turn. We have the cash to do the others also.

IBT
Babylon – aqueduct – sword
Ellipi – sword – sword
Eridu – sword - sword

Turn 10 150
Sword armies move out. One is yellow lined, one is ready for battle.

Notes:
Currency comes in 2 turns.
I'd suggest Lit next so we can capture the Glib in Ur
We didn’t lose a unit this round . I did not keep a record of kills, but it was probably over 10 and under 15. Cats are working well, and all we are seeing is archers with an occasional spear for cover. Keep building cats.
Our new horsemen will allow us to kill the last AI unit at Damascus, so we won't have to worry about re-cycled stacks.
F11 looks really good. We are #1 in Mfg goods even though we have not done any pillaging.
Let’s go find and raze Ur. Keep the Glib 1 turn only
Sumeria has horses, so watch out for that.
There is no road on Sumeria’s Iron, so raze that city at your leisure.
There are 6 workers under the bowman army.
Our homeland is decently defended, but a couple of horsemen in Ashur & Mecca for “rapid response” would be a good idea.
Slaves are making nice improvements in the core.
I’d be surprised if those nearby cities have more than 2 spears apiece. Once you accumulate 3 swords to place under the bowman army you can take off to raze them. Keeping them mey be more trouble than it’s worth given the map layout. The narrow defensive choke is working nicely and will produce a lot of leaders for us.

Remember - no Pillaging beyond the first enemy city.

 

[Sir Bugsy]

Forgot to post a “got it.”

Pre-flight - We don’t have any settlers. I always like to have some settlers in these AW games. I change Ashur to a settler.

Cleo has five cities. X-man has seven cities. Sumeria has eight cities.

IBT – A few enemy units approach our cities.
Akkad: cat=>cat
Uruk: barracks=>sword

1. 130 BC – Kills: two Sumer achers, a spear at Akkad. Egypt has planted a new city. Science comes down as currency is due next turn. (3-0)

IBT – More victims step forward.
Currency=> myst (due in four)
El-Am – Cat=>cat

2. 110 BC – Kills: Two Egyptian archers
@ Abydos – Kill the defending spear and capture it. I don’t think there is much of a flip risk since there isn’t much cultural pressure. (6-0)

IBT – Babylon, Nineveh: sword=>sword
Ashur: settler=>settler
Gibbon says we’re the world’s most powerful nation.

3. 90 BC – Kills: 3 Sumerian Archers, 2 Egyptian archers
Lost: sword
@ Asyut – Kill a spear.
@ Giza – Kill a spear. (13-1)

IBT – Kill a Sumerian archer.
Damascus: sword=>sword
Samara: barracks=>cat

4. 70 BC – Kills: Persian spear (collect two settler slaves), Egyptian archer,
@ Asyut – Kill two spears and capture it.
@ Giza – Kill two spears. (20-1)

IBT – Sumerians build the Great Library.

5. 50 BC - @ Agade – Our Bow Army is redlined killing one Enkidu.
@ Giza – Our Sword army is redlined killing the two spears. We capture the city temporarily so Our army will have a place to heal.
Science down as myst is due next. (23-1)

IBT – Lose a sword to a Sumer archer. Kill three Persian archers at Asyut.
Myst=>writing (science to 60%, due in 4)
Babylon: sword=>settler
Elippi: sword=>sword

6. 30 BC – Kills: Sumer Archer, 2 Persian archers,
Found Nippur. (29-2)

IBT – Mecca: settler=>barracks
Uruk: sword=>sword

7. 10 BC – Our army in Giza is healed up to yellow. I abandon Giza.
Kills: four Persian archers. (33-2)

IBT – Nineveh: sword=>sword
Akkad: cat=>cat
Ashur: settler=>sword

8. 10 AD - @ Agade – Lose a sword, kill two Enkidu, an archer and capture the city. We may lose it interturn since I can only get the conquering horse there.
Found Shuruppak.
Kills: Persian spear (disband the settler slaves) two Persian archers. (39-3)

IBT – Agade holds, kill an Egyptian archer.
Babylon: settler=>sword
El-Am: cat=>cat

9. 30 AD - @ Byblos: kill the defending spear. Raze it.

IBT – Kill a Persian archer at Agade, and an Egyptian archer. An Egyptian archer is dropped off in the backyard.
Writing=>Philosophy (due in four)
Damascus, Eridu: sword=>sword
10. 50 AD - @ Avaris: kill two spears, capture it.

After Action – Egypt is down to two cities. Keep building settler and fill some of this land. I’ve been going for the cheapest techs. Here’s a situation report:

We should be able to clean up Egypt and hit X-man pretty hard. This one is on the downhill side.

Save: http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/HNDY8,_50_AD.SAV

 

[Northern Pike]

Great progress, gentlemen.

I see the point of choosing the cheapest techs, but do we even care about reaching Monarchy?

 

[handy900]

We are getting close to steamroller stage.

Great progress, gentlemen.

I see the point of chosing the cheapest techs, but do we even care about reaching Monarchy?

We do want monarchy, but in other games we have found if we jump too quick our economy crashes from paying unit support. It has worked well to get much of the ancient tree before we get to Monarchy. I can't open a save @ work to see what the cost of a Monarchy move would be. We do have a pretty good city count, so perhaps we are ready. OTOH, I've never won an AW game as a despot .

Once we have lit, we can capture the Glib, hold a turn then raze it. We may get monarchy quicker that way.


Roster and Order of Play
Handy
Sir Bugsy
Greebley is UP
Yom
grs
Northern Pike


Greebley consider sending a dinky boat out to explore.

 

[Greebley]

Got it. I will continue the offensive.

Another way to judge when to switch to Monarchy is based on cities that are ready to go to size 7. Despotic cities and size 7 cites are the same support I believe. You can also take advantage of Monarchy to get your cities to size 7 by taking a short term hit in gold, but irrigating grasslands to get to size 7 faster.

Since we are still building settlers, I am guessing that waiting a bit longer makes sense. It might be worth starting to research it soon though. I will see.

 

[Northern Pike]

Thanks for the informative discussion. Those of you who've been with this series from the beginning have clearly learned a lot of nuances.

 

[handy900]

Forgot to say well done Sir Bugsy

 

[Sir Bugsy]

Thanks Handy. I think it might be a cool touch to play this one through as a Despot. I have never done that either. I think Troy made a pitch during the Zulu game to stay a Despot, I think we could do it here.

We have essentially two enemies now. Egypt is down to one city, and the Hititties (who we haven't contacted yet) are weak compared to us. Sumeria has some Endiku that won't die and I don't think Persia has iron. Has anyone seen an immortal yet?

 

[handy900]

I checked on my turns and none of our foes had iron. We can't be sure about the Hittites since they don't appear on F4 yet. It would not surprise me to find the Hittites in a sea of jungle or marsh.

Those of you who've been with this series from the beginning have clearly learned a lot of nuances.

Some were learned the hard way.
One of the best strategies we learned on small maps was the early attack. Greebleys early attack in our Sid game, as well as positioning spears to supress the AI workers, was the key to success.

 

[Greebley]

Preturn: Our nation looks in good shape. I switch the size 6 town to a settler and another town as well. It will increase our unit support.

On Monarchy, we have to build aquaducts in all our cities to get to size 7+. I think as long as we are making forward progress we should stay a despot and produce units. If/when we stall, we can switch to aquaducts and consider Monarchy.

Decide to kill the archer on the hill.

I want few more catapults. Switch 2 towns farthest from Barracks over to Cats. Some cats will stay behind and bop boats.

IBT: Boats and a Barb. No enemy units.

70 AD: Checking culture, only the Sumerians have a lot more than us. I may keep the Persian and Egyptian towns. Attack Arbela killing a spear.

IBT: A few Persian Archers spotted(two stacks of 2).

90 AD: Arggh! Lose two swords trying to kill an archer who takes 2 hp damage. It was on a mountain - I guess I shouldn't have attacked - still attack 3 vs def 2 we have 4 hp they have 3. Ah well.
Capture Arabela

Decide to build a few temples so we can stay on par in culture and can capture cities. Might as well use our traits. The main cities are all building units still.

Found Zariqum

IBT: Archers Flee again. Nineveh will build temple too. It is fast and gets us a whale.
Hittites complete Sun Tzu's. Sistines is being built.

110 AD: Bowman army does badly and is redlined. It retreats to heal. Other two armies heal this turn. Lower science for Philosophy next turn

IBT: Add Copernicus to the list of Wonders being built. Decide to go for Code of Laws next for Courthouses.

130 AD: A Hittite 3-man chariot is slaughtered by a Persian archer. So the AI are also at war. I was expecting that given the lack of incoming units.

Our diplomats try to speak to the Hittites, but they have little interest in talking while being slaughtered. No contact. ("Excuse me, I see you are busy at the moment, but perhaps we could talk? Oops, I guess we shouldn't have distracted them. Better not mention this when we get home.")

We are going to meet the Hittites soon though. The Hittite-Persian war explains why the Persians are so weak militarily. They are fighting a two front war.

May lose Arbela for a turn.

Found Sippar

IBT: Nope, the wounded archer decides to head home to heal instead of holding the city for a turn (it was 2 away from the town and we were 3).

150AD: Kill two spears in Antioch and capture it. This gives us another Luxury - Incense. Yow! We are up to 7 Luxuries! We are only missing Silk

We do meet the hittites. Now this is very rare. Normally I can't afford any techs, but we can afford 4! techs. I buy them all for 720 Gold which should put us into the next era (We buy Lit, CoL, Maps, Polytheism) and gain a free tech which turns out to be Monotheism. Too bad, if we had gotten Engineering we could have made a second trade.

I am going for Feudalism at 80% research (+0 gpt) in 9. After that we can get knights.

Attack Hattusha. We have been attacking the Egyptian city, but keep leaving a lone archer guarding it, More units are on the way and it will fall soon - two or three turns.

Found Iziba

IBT: Not much.

170 AD: Capture Hattusha. There was another iron near this city that was unconnected.

IBT: Sumeria finishes the Knights Templar.

190 AD: That Egyptian town just will not fall. Two bowmen cannot kill the Spear in the town.
Persia on the other hand continues to be good RNG as three swords capture Bactra without loss.

Persia has three cities. Egypt has one.

IBT: Some units seen going for Antioch.

210 AD: The Egyptian town finally falls and the Egyptians are no more. That's 2....
We capture our first Hittite Settler and our first 2 Hittite slaves.

IBT: Few new units are seen.

230 AD: Antioch is cleared of the Enemy.

IBT: Nada.

250 AD: Move on Persepolis.

Notes:
We have 26 cities now. I increased the count by both building settlers (3 settled, 3 more en route for 29). Which means we are short on Armies as we can support 6.

For this game Monarchy looks like too much effort. We would need to build a bajillion aquaducts. I would rather go for Chivalry next and build knights instead. Lets get some knight armies.

We own 39% of the world already.

I was thinking of rushing a temple in Arbela if we can get rid of the last resistor (in two or more turns).

Barbarians pop up all the time. We need Settler to grab the SE and near the Ivory to clear those spots of barbs. Be careful approaching them, they almost always will have new barbs it seems.

We are 40 units under our support of 104.

I would keep Persian cities but raze all Sumerian and Hittite ones.

We don't have a front line as we don't need one at the moment. I was advancing somewhere on every turn. There is no opposition to speak of. I am guessing Sumeria and Hittites are at war too.

I still can't quite believe we raised the difficulty to Demigod, chose Pangea, chose a sub-optimal AW civ, added an Anti-Pillaging rule and are doing this well. It shows what a strong starting position can do for you.

 

[Greebley]

Here is a picture of the world:

 

[Northern Pike]

More fine work. It looks as though the only thing that's going to hold us back now is the long march from our core to the front.