HOF Mod Support/Suggestions

[Denniz]

It seems to occur when I've skipped a prerequisite, and the opponent has that prerequisite (as well as the tech in question). Then it gets put into "Can Research" even though I should know that they have it (since I have it and can trade with them).

That kind of makes sense from what I remember of the code. I will have another look. Thanks.

I think there shoulda be same kind of alert for tech trades lost that we have for new ones. It's annoying to check every round if I shoulda trading techs when someone else gets them. Even info that someone acquired new tech would be ok.

-Dracandross

You want an alert when a tech only you had last turn is learned by one or more AI's? That's an interesting idea. Definately worth a look.

 

[jray]

That kind of makes sense from what I remember of the code. I will have another look. Thanks.

You want an alert when a tech only you had last turn is learned by one or more AI's? That's an interesting idea. Definately worth a look.

You might want to look at ShowInfo. I don't think it can do this specifically, but it does WAY more than Civ4lerts does in the tech-trading department. I enhanced it to differentiate between sellable/unsellable/buyable/unbuyable techs and resources in my jrayUGH modpack, and you can download just the ShowInfo component from there if you want.

FYI though, both Civ4lerts and ShowInfo suffer from a common problem: their trading information is one turn behind. (Although with ShowInfo, you have the cool ability to press <Shift>-I at any time and get current information). I think it could be fixed by moving the calls to the relevant modules to later in the turn sequence, much like Gaurav fixed his Great Person Mod so that the GP notification occurred after the AI's took their turns.

 

[Denniz]

You might want to look at ShowInfo. I don't think it can do this specifically, but it does WAY more than Civ4lerts does in the tech-trading department. I enhanced it to differentiate between sellable/unsellable/buyable/unbuyable techs and resources in my jrayUGH modpack, and you can download just the ShowInfo component from there if you want.

Thanks for the links. I will take a closer look when we get around to producing a new version of the HOF Mod.

From a breif look at Showinfo, a couple things to note: Exotic Foreign Advisor provides a lot of the same details visually, making extensive messages unnecesary. Also, we don't include any spoiler type information, like what the AI's are researching, in the HOF Mod.

FYI though, both Civ4lerts and ShowInfo suffer from a common problem: their trading information is one turn behind. (Although with ShowInfo, you have the cool ability to press <Shift>-I at any time and get current information). I think it could be fixed by moving the calls to the relevant modules to later in the turn sequence, much like Gaurav fixed his Great Person Mod so that the GP notification occurred after the AI's took their turns.

I wasn't aware that the alerts in the HOF Mod were coming a turn late. I am pretty sure the alerts we added are firing correctly. I haven't paid much attention to the alerts from the original Civ4lerts, but it seems like the population alerts are correct. I will have to take a closer look. In any case, Exotic Foreign advisor is up to date.

On a positive note, having a hot-key to execute the alerts manually isn't a bad idea.

 

[Planitia]

Hi, I guess this is a question for Denniz and others with computing wizardry...

The problem is I can install mapfinder but whenever i run it i just get a 'mapfinder has encountered a problem and has to close' error message. i tried installing both 1.4 and 1.3 versions but had the same problem. I also tried installing the MS VB express edition that seemed to work for other users (in a post by HighDesert i think) but this generated some seriously weird results.
When i tried to run mapfinder the first time the computer started a popup box that tried to reconfigure ArcGIS desktop - completely unrelated software i am running on my machine! When i cancel that (or it asks for an installation CD that clearly wont have what is needed on it) i get the same 'mapfinder has encountered a problem and has to close' error message. i've tried various things like reinstalling and uninstalling but to no avail.

Any ideas anyone?

I also discovered that installing/uninstalling MX xml 4.0 also plays a role in this. I removed it at the same time i installed VB express edition as i thought it might get in the way of the vb install. but then, when i reinstalled it the mapfinder stopped attempting to open the ArcGIS configuration popup. it still didnt work of course... it just gave the same error as the original probel! i just thought i'd add some extra info!

 

[Denniz]

Hi, I guess this is a question for Denniz and others with computing wizardry...

The problem is I can install mapfinder but whenever i run it i just get a 'mapfinder has encountered a problem and has to close' error message. i tried installing both 1.4 and 1.3 versions but had the same problem. I also tried installing the MS VB express edition that seemed to work for other users (in a post by HighDesert i think) but this generated some seriously weird results.
When i tried to run mapfinder the first time the computer started a popup box that tried to reconfigure ArcGIS desktop - completely unrelated software i am running on my machine! When i cancel that (or it asks for an installation CD that clearly wont have what is needed on it) i get the same 'mapfinder has encountered a problem and has to close' error message. i've tried various things like reinstalling and uninstalling but to no avail.

Any ideas anyone?

I also discovered that installing/uninstalling MX xml 4.0 also plays a role in this. I removed it at the same time i installed VB express edition as i thought it might get in the way of the vb install. but then, when i reinstalled it the mapfinder stopped attempting to open the ArcGIS configuration popup. it still didnt work of course... it just gave the same error as the original probel! i just thought i'd add some extra info!

Did you install the Microsoft .NET Framework Version 2.0 Redistributable Package ?

 

[Planitia]

hi Denniz. wow, super fast response!

yes i did install that after my first ever try at getting mapfinder installed (i got a message saying ineeded to install the .net thing). So, i did install that and it didnt work. that brought me up to the start point of my previous post.

i uninstalled the .net framework prior to installing the vb express edition (as recommended by the MS homepage) but i noticed that the vb package reinstalled MS .NET framework 2.0 anyway as part of its install. i have never seen the 'you need the .net framework' error message since the first time.

cheers!

 

[superslug]

hi Denniz. wow, super fast response!

I only hire the best, even if I don't pay them well.

First two posts in the HOF forum, we're honored. Welcome to CFC!

 

[Planitia]

Thanks! That's the most enthusiastic response to joining a forum i've ever had! its nice to be made welcome.
I've been looking at the forum for hints and tips for a while and thought that the mapfinder seemed like a necessity for playing the gauntlets! its only now that my computer and mapfinder have fallen out that i have dipped my toe in the water and actually posted something!
maybe it will be the first of many, it sure seems a friendly place to be!

 

[Dianthus]

I only hire the best, even if I don't pay them well.

You didn't say the best a what though? I'm pretty good at idleness, indecision, procrastination and moratorium .

 

[Airny]

I'd like to remind you on my post #711 which seems to be completely ignored.

 

[superslug]

Sorry about that!

Because this thread is also for suggestions, I'd like to suggest a filter or a separation between different versions and/or civ4/warlords.

I tried to follow some well working strategies and wasn't able to get even close to the first place using warlords 2.08.
It's quite useless to try to beat some scores, due the changes they made in 2.08.

To support my opinion I reviewed the new entries in HoF:
Only 3 of 13 new records were made with warlords!

Are you proposing an unofficial version filter? Or suggesting a divorce into a Vanilla HOF and Warlords HOF?

 

[ori]

just to make sure this bug in the ExoticForeignAdvisor is noticed

Found a bug in (some version) of the EFA. I do not know if anyone is keeping this project up to date, but someone reported this bug over in BetterAI and I tracked it down to this problem:

These are both called when the python Foreign Advisor is asking whether a player has the holy city for 'NO_RELIGION' (value is -1). This is a no-no, the code will crash if you pass in an invalid religion index. (Unlike, say getRelgionInfo which does a range check).

This is lines 331-334 of the CvExoticForeignAdvisor.py:

if (gc.getPlayer(iLoopPlayer).hasHolyCity (nPlayerReligion)):
    szPlayerReligion = u"%c" %(objReligion.getHolyCityChar())
elif objReligion:
    szPlayerReligion = u"%c" %(objReligion.getChar())

You need to add a check for no religion:

if (nPlayerReligion != -1): # -1 == NO_RELIGON
    if (gc.getPlayer(iLoopPlayer).hasHolyCity (nPlayerReligion)):
        szPlayerReligion = u"%c" %(objReligion.getHolyCityChar())
    elif objReligion:
        szPlayerReligion = u"%c" %(objReligion.getChar())

This fixes the assert and crash both.

Hope this helps,

-Iustus

 

[Denniz]

hi Denniz. wow, super fast response!

yes i did install that after my first ever try at getting mapfinder installed (i got a message saying ineeded to install the .net thing). So, i did install that and it didnt work. that brought me up to the start point of my previous post.

i uninstalled the .net framework prior to installing the vb express edition (as recommended by the MS homepage) but i noticed that the vb package reinstalled MS .NET framework 2.0 anyway as part of its install. i have never seen the 'you need the .net framework' error message since the first time.

cheers!

You just had good timing.

If it isn't the framework then I am guessing software conflict may be the correct diagnosis. Could you post a pic of the error message.

 

[Denniz]

just to make sure this bug in the ExoticForeignAdvisor is noticed

Noted. Thanks

 

[Bastian-Bux]

Well, my impression is, that some victory conditions are suffering more from Warlords then others. Frex it seems that rushes are a tad harder then in Vanilla (still stupidly easy). As it is now rushes are also some of the most played versions, thus it is very hard to compete in this area with established Vanilla scores.

Another reason might be that many of the good players are still preferring Vanilla. So mostly "sub average" players like me try to fill the scores with Warlords games.

But all together I agree with the OP: there is a distinct imbalance between Vanilla and Warlords scores.

Now how to solve it?

Three possibilities:

1) two completely different HOF
2) an unofficial version filter
3) a version multiplier (frex Vanilla rushes get only a 0.x multiplier, while Warlords gets 1.0)

Its also possible to combine those three ways: an official filter is used to make two different HOFs for now (DB side they are stored in the same tables, only the output is divided), though by comparing them the HOF team works out consistent multipliers so that over time we might come back to one HOF.

Why would that make sense? Well, lets face it, in the end all of us will probably play Civ4 with all its expansions. But it would be sad to declare the older results as not-comparable, or equally bad, let them rot in separate HOFs nobody is looking at anymore.

By separating them there would be more incentive for players to get Warlords results, and thereby get a database so that useful multipliers can be developed. And thus the "old" records don't loose actuality. They are just multiplied down (or even up) to reflect the comparable difficulty.

Yeah, I know, its quite some work. But lets just imagine the situation once a second or even third expansion hits the market.

 

[dutchfire]

My opinion:

If you think some leader will give you the best result, you pick him.
If you think some version will give you the best result, you pick that version.

IMO it's not that bad if "no-one" plays warlords, it's their own choice.

 

[superslug]

Interesting points, but we're getting way off topic from mod support. If someone feels that passionately about it, a new thread is in order.

 

[jray]

From a breif look at Showinfo, a couple things to note: Exotic Foreign Advisor provides a lot of the same details visually, making extensive messages unnecesary. Also, we don't include any spoiler type information, like what the AI's are researching, in the HOF Mod.

I removed the spoilers in my enhanced version of ShowInfo, which is bundled in jrayUGH (and offered directly as a separate component here from the previous v208a version of jrayUGH, which has the exact same ShowInfo code). It's easy to do with the INI options, and it would also be easy to just remove the relevant portions of the Python code if you want extra security.

I also streamlined the output quite a bit to show only techs and resources you can buy and open borders willingness. It's not so overwhelming now.

I wasn't aware that the alerts in the HOF Mod were coming a turn late. I am pretty sure the alerts we added are firing correctly. I haven't paid much attention to the alerts from the original Civ4lerts, but it seems like the population alerts are correct. I will have to take a closer look. In any case, Exotic Foreign advisor is up to date.

Actually, the tech trade alerts added by HOF are the ones that are often one turn behind. The city-related alerts are fine. I've tested this extensively (thru HOF mod 2.08.003) and I'm pretty darn sure. If the AI suddenly becomes willing to trade a tech it's had for a while, then you'll see the correct tech trade alert on the same turn. But if an AI learns a new tech and is willing to trade it immediately, then you won't see the tech trade alert until the next turn. It's pretty easy to reproduce... just try a post-alphabet game where you check the tech trade screen every turn until you see an AI get a new one, and I bet you wouldn't have gotten the alert, but you will the next turn.

I have not tested the gold trade alerts, so I don't know their status.

Sorry I don't have time to get you a savegame file right now, but I'm struggling to keep up with playtesting on jrayUGH (plus busy IRL). If you aren't able to reproduce it though, please get back to me and I'll try to get you one.

On a positive note, having a hot-key to execute the alerts manually isn't a bad idea.

Yeah, it's great! So during those times when I absolutely need a tech or resource as soon as it's available, I just make a habit of pressing <Shift>-I at the beginning of each turn to quickly check, without having to open the EFA.

I bet it wouldn't be that hard (at least in ShowInfo, since it already has the manual functionality) to get things in synch. I think it's just a matter of moving the tech trade checking code later in the turn sequence, after the AI has had their turns. Either that or just use ShowInfo to automatically do "<Shift>-I" for you.

EDIT: fixed description of when tech trade alert is correct. After picking my memory some more, I'm not sure what happens when you learn a new tech that opens the gates to a new trade.

 

[Planitia]

HI Denniz. Attached is the screen grab of the error message.

I guess if it is software conflict the only solution is to uninstall one or the other?

Cheers.

 

[Denniz]

HI Denniz. Attached is the screen grab of the error message.

I guess if it is software conflict the only solution is to uninstall one or the other?

Cheers.

No a very helpful message, huh? It doesn't look like one from my code, so something in OS or DLLs is reporting the issue.

Random questions/thoughts: Is this during the install or executing the exe? Are you using XP sp2? Do you have Civ4 installed? You might check to see if your registry entry is pointing to the correct installdir for Civ4. Warlords? Does your signon user have admin rights to your PC? What about internet access? The default security model VB Express uses seems to require those accesses.